Which method generates more power?
Hopefully grey not so old is here I ask the bulk of my questions at boxing scene but I save the important ones for you grey! :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=vmAFFvdGc_o
If you notice Justin naturally punches from the hips without pivoting his foot, freddie has to say the pivot on the back etc before justine decides to actualy pivot on the foot as part of the demo, but you can see he has trained and naturally doesnt want to pivot on the foot or move the leg much at all.
I watch julian jackson and he is exactly the same very little pivoting on the foot when he punches it more directly comes from the hips without much leg or foot movement.
Rocky Marciano on the other hand gets alot more foot pivot, leg pivot, and leg drive into his punches.
But more often than not it seems most boxers neglect pivoting their feet and legs fully and properly.
Which is better for power and why? Pivoting the foot or not pivoting the foot that much and firing from the hips more directly almost like a traditional martial artist?
Why do they do it differently?
(I personally find it more powerful to pivot from the foot because you get more weight tarnsferred ie your heavy leg is added to the rotation of your body, and you get better drive from the legs since they are in the right position to function optimally) But more often than not I dont see the pros pivot their feet or legs much not even the power punchers who dont hold back on a full power punch that has full range of motion. Why the hell is that?
Re: Which method generates more power?
Lol, im not one bit surprised you and Alex are the same person. I just read that over there.
Anyway, this is a pretty good question. Kind of hard to answer really. I would say the correct form is to pivot. I think you can obviously get more power that way. Also trainers may also make there fighters exaggerate this motion while training to get the motion down.
In an actual fight its hard to get in on the perfect angle and maintain the footwork to throw it like that. They are not focused on pivoting the foo as they would be while practicing technique so you wont see the exaggerated pivot in a fight.
Just my two cents but its hard to say really.
Re: Which method generates more power?
Another thing is punch commitment.
When you are watching a fighter hit the bag like in the vid, he is fully commited to the punch and throwing all he has in it.
In a fight if you fully commit like that all the time you can get yourself in trouble. It gets easy to predict and your leave yourself very open when you commit like that.
You have fighters like J Jackson who can still generate a lot of power without the full commitment.
I think the answer lies in punch commitment.
Re: Which method generates more power?
he wasn't getting much into the punch from his hips or his legs. He was drawing it back and throwing it from his arms and shoulders.
Freddie falls into a trap here in his way of explaining things, and it is a common one in boxing and it confuses a lot of people and leads to things being taught improperly. I am not saying he is wrong in the way he teaches it- I have seen him work at his gym in Hollywood and know people that he trained when he first went on his own and was working out of a gym in La Habra. But the explanation is wrong and conveys the wrong sequence for weight transference.
The pivot of the right foot does NOT generate the power in the right hand; it is a result of how that power is generated. The same is true of the left hook; the power does not come from the turn of the left foot, not if you are doing it right. Doing it that way puts the weight behind the punch, which makes it a push. You need to get the weight turned in front of the fist, creating a whip-like effect and concussive force.
To throw a hook, then, the first movement is to get your weight onto the rear leg. You use the muscles on that side of your body to violently wrench your body around. The first place this manifests itself is on the front foot; the violent torquing of the hips causes the foot to pivot inward. The next place it shows is in the shoulders, which turn fully over the rear leg. The fist itself never moves- it does not draw back- until the bodily tension whips it through the target.
If you watch the video, that guy is throwing the hook off his front foot. The weight never gets back to the right leg. This would show up, profoundly, if he were to try and string together punches, another right hand, for example.
My suggestion to you would be this: Exaggerate your movements until you find the feel. Throw your straight left- you are a southpaw, correct?- and really get your weight onto your front foot, then turn through it. You will feel the force I am talking about. Then get your weight back and crank off a hook. You'll find the feeling.
This is very much how Julian Jackson punched. I read an interview with him in KO magazine in the late 1980s where he talked about how he was taught and I stole liberally from what he said.
Re: Which method generates more power?
In any sport there are some fundamental mechanics and techniques that are pretty much universal. Like the pivot in your lead foot on a lead hook or the snap of your wrist in a jump shot in basketball.
Sometimes a coach/trainer/teacher can get fixated on small details or even be too stubborn to realize the exact way they do something is not the only way. When this happens it can limit the athlete to opening up and learning there own style.
Outside of a lot of basic techniques and mechanics a fighter should learn, they have to learn their own style.
Re: Which method generates more power?
Simply what generates power, to the mobilizations of Muscle and form is the floor. Understanding that youre halfway there.
Re: Which method generates more power?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Scrap
Simply what generates power, to the mobilizations of Muscle and form is the floor. Understanding that youre halfway there.
Thats awesome scrap and mysterious at the same time lol do you mean, those that dont use the ground as leverage rotate thir feet, but those using the ground and grip opimally appear not to be using thir legs, but thats because they are getting leverage from the ground and not loosing any leverage by allowing "give" in their feet?
But they still cant get the same drive from their legs this way but they might be getting a more forceful rotation!?
Re: Which method generates more power?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
greynotsoold
he wasn't getting much into the punch from his hips or his legs. He was drawing it back and throwing it from his arms and shoulders.
Freddie falls into a trap here in his way of explaining things, and it is a common one in boxing and it confuses a lot of people and leads to things being taught improperly. I am not saying he is wrong in the way he teaches it- I have seen him work at his gym in Hollywood and know people that he trained when he first went on his own and was working out of a gym in La Habra. But the explanation is wrong and conveys the wrong sequence for weight transference.
The pivot of the right foot does NOT generate the power in the right hand; it is a result of how that power is generated. The same is true of the left hook; the power does not come from the turn of the left foot, not if you are doing it right. Doing it that way puts the weight behind the punch, which makes it a push. You need to get the weight turned in front of the fist, creating a whip-like effect and concussive force.
To throw a hook, then, the first movement is to get your weight onto the rear leg. You use the muscles on that side of your body to violently wrench your body around. The first place this manifests itself is on the front foot; the violent torquing of the hips causes the foot to pivot inward. The next place it shows is in the shoulders, which turn fully over the rear leg. The fist itself never moves- it does not draw back- until the bodily tension whips it through the target.
If you watch the video, that guy is throwing the hook off his front foot. The weight never gets back to the right leg. This would show up, profoundly, if he were to try and string together punches, another right hand, for example.
My suggestion to you would be this: Exaggerate your movements until you find the feel. Throw your straight left- you are a southpaw, correct?- and really get your weight onto your front foot, then turn through it. You will feel the force I am talking about. Then get your weight back and crank off a hook. You'll find the feeling.
This is very much how Julian Jackson punched. I read an interview with him in KO magazine in the late 1980s where he talked about how he was taught and I stole liberally from what he said.
Greynotsoold is clearly better than the world class trainer that is freddie roach, in-fact id go as far as saying freddie sucks compared to you grey. Ive never had better answers/info from anyone ever on boxing technique! You readers may not believe that, but I invite you to try the shoulder swirl method he also teaches, and tell me it doesn't provide more power than the way freddie teaches to punch. See for yourself try it.
Thanks a million friend! :)
Re: Which method generates more power?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OMGWTF
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Scrap
Simply what generates power, to the mobilizations of Muscle and form is the floor. Understanding that youre halfway there.
Thats awesome scrap and mysterious at the same time lol do you mean, those that dont use the ground as leverage rotate thir feet, but those using the ground and grip opimally appear not to be using thir legs, but thats because they are getting leverage from the ground and not loosing any leverage by allowing "give" in their feet?
But they still cant get the same drive from their legs this way but they might be getting a more forceful rotation!?
Answer to all this, lies in the thumb, and its Kinetic loop with everything. Elbow, Shoulder, Hips, Feet they all evolved together, to keep the head in the correct place, lots of years ago. ;D
Re: Which method generates more power?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Scrap
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OMGWTF
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Scrap
Simply what generates power, to the mobilizations of Muscle and form is the floor. Understanding that youre halfway there.
Thats awesome scrap and mysterious at the same time lol do you mean, those that dont use the ground as leverage rotate thir feet, but those using the ground and grip opimally appear not to be using thir legs, but thats because they are getting leverage from the ground and not loosing any leverage by allowing "give" in their feet?
But they still cant get the same drive from their legs this way but they might be getting a more forceful rotation!?
Answer to all this, lies in the thumb, and its Kinetic loop with everything. Elbow, Shoulder, Hips, Feet they all evolved together, to keep the head in the correct place, lots of years ago. ;D
Forgot the Knees ;D
Re: Which method generates more power?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OMGWTF
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Scrap
Simply what generates power, to the mobilizations of Muscle and form is the floor. Understanding that youre halfway there.
Thats awesome scrap and mysterious at the same time lol do you mean, those that dont use the ground as leverage rotate thir feet, but those using the ground and grip opimally appear not to be using thir legs, but thats because they are getting leverage from the ground and not loosing any leverage by allowing "give" in their feet?
But they still cant get the same drive from their legs this way but they might be getting a more forceful rotation!?
Its all to do with the legs, and where the Head is in relation to the Feet.
