The Good 'Ole days.

[donnydarkoIRL]

This thread is a little abstract so I hope you'll bear with me.
In the modern era of boxing, fighters are perhaps prepared better than ever before, they are rewarded better for their efforts and are monitored and cared much better than their counterparts in history (pre-1970)

However, these same fighters go shorter distances and still fatigue, have more protection and more protective rules but still get KO'ed. and of course they still quit, seeminglyneasier than their predecessors.

So my question is....
Are fighters from the rough and tumble wild days better than their modern counterparts? Are they indeed "tougher?"

In answering the question attempt to leave out the remarkable exceptions i.e Roy Jones Jr. Hank Armstrong and Sugar Ray Robinson.

[DaxxKahn]

I won't say they were better....If you took the same fighters from those eras and put them in today with all the same benefits..Training etc they would stilll be the same fighters...but again they would follow the same routines today's guys do...fight less, train the same etc,,,

Fighters then also needed to fight more to eat and feed their families...they did not get the monstor pay days they do now a days....you will be surprised what the need to feed your family will make you do....

Fighters were also more or less slaves to their promoters then...they had to fight when they were told...and the promoters took a lot more of the purse.....


Today's top guys would have fared just as well in the older eras...but this is a brutal sport and if there is no need to put yourself through those things why bother?

[donnydarkoIRL]

Thanks for the reply Daxx!
Whilst your post was excellent and I really aggreed with most of it, I'm strill unconvinced.

As a young boxer myself, I would love to be able to say with confidence "Our generation produces just as good, gutsy and tough guys as any other."
However, I'm not so certain. Watching a fight between Gavilan and Graham recently (and subsequently Gavilan vs. Saxton I think) I became awre of the huge sacrifices these men made in non title affairs....every week!
Whilst some may view their mentality as ludicrous (in that they fough wars weekly) one also has to admire the courage and pride they had and they fury with which they went about their work. Perhaps driven by poverty, their mentality seemed to be of steel.

I must admit I'm a sucker for the old grainy balack and white fights and I guess there is a romanticist inside me which glorofies those heroes such as Gavilan, Walcott, Walker, Burley, Graziano, Zale, Armstrong and indeed Robinson, but also being as impartial as I can I sometimes feel that apart from the exceptional, many of the old class would exceed some of our best by a good margin.

[CutMeMick]

For the most part it was a need to fighters back then. The need to survive and earn a living for their families.
Of course there were other means but who the hell wanted to break their backs and work long hours for chump change?
If you notice a handful of fighters from back in the days were somehow involved with ilegal types of money making schemes.
I'm not saying all but a lot were, I'm certain theres more we never found out about.
From throwing away fights, to being involved with the mob to drugs.

The easiest way to make some cash was for the most part the best at that time. Even today fighters who come from the streets and are hungry tend to be hungrier. You do have some fighters that come from good families and are well educated who have maded but for the most part is the fighters that have gone thru hardships that use it as there fire and fuel to succeed.

I think it's a mixture of a lot things that were happening in those eras the economy, life it'self, promoters, health etc. etc. etc.
All of those things added to how much a fighter fought and how badly he had to win in order to survive.

[No Contest]

I think they were tougher mentally back then, you have to take into consideration the earlier years there were World Wars and the depression.If you werent strong willed you wouldnt make it back then. Physically todays fighters are in better shape but arent as sturdy when it comes to the mental aspects, i.e coming back from a loss, or being dedicated. theres always exceptions, this is just my opinion on the whole.

[Scrap]

Harder times breed Harder Men. Plus who says and what proof have we that todays methods for training are better. Who wanted it more.

[Chris Nagel]

It's amazing the kind of guts that many of the old timers showed. Read about Joe Gans' second fight against Battling Nelson, how he fought on even though he was terribly ill with T.B. puking up pints of blood through the ropes and staying ahead even to the 15th round, or Gene Tunney's bloody first fight with Harry Greb. There are many more instances of toughness from those eras than you will hardly find in this day and age, but it comes down to what Scrap said, "Hard times breeds hard men."

They had it much much tougher, they were hungrier, fought much more, etc. etc. I honestly don't think that most guys of our time could even measure up to the old-timer's sparring partners.

[donnydarkoIRL]

You guys have confirmed what i suspected pretty much....Different times, Different Mentality.
I do realise that Today we do have our good share of men with a comparable mentality (Hopkins, Barrera, Pacquiao, Valero.) but I also feel, for good or for worse (and I feel perhaps for good) we have strayed from the origins of boxing, losing it's intense and guttural savagery in the process.

[Chris Nagel]

One fighter of recent memory that could fall under that old psycho-dynamic is Julio Cesar Chavez. He knew tragedy and hardship growing up, and it no doubt affected him as a fighter. He trained hard, fought often, and knew his boxing inside and out. Jack Dempsey said that most don't know hungry, but those words don't apply to JCC.

[donnydarkoIRL]

One fighter of recent memory that could fall under that old psycho-dynamic is Julio Cesar Chavez. He knew tragedy and hardship growing up, and it no doubt affected him as a fighter. He trained hard, fought often, and knew his boxing inside and out. Jack Dempsey said that most don't know hungry, but those words don't apply to JCC.

CC Chris good point.
I believe there is a lot of Hunger still in the nation of Mexico.

Also Miranda knew adversity growing up as well as his fellow african fighter M'Baye was it?

[Chris Nagel]

Yes, and you'll find that a lot of tough fighters coming from hard backgrounds, regardless of where their place of birth is.

It will be interesting to see how things turn out when Cuba opens it's gates to professional boxing. I'm also curious on whether the cuban amateur style will continue into the pro ranks.

[donnydarkoIRL]

I actually trained a little with Nicolas Cruz from Cuba.
Their training techniques are intesting to say the least and are not suited to all boxing styles. However, I feel the Cuban amateur style may transcend fairly well, apartfrom a few glitches when altering from 4 to 6+ rounds.

(Warning: This may turn into a thread suited for the training board quickly LoL)