Should smokers and binge drinkers be charged for using the NHS?

[Gandalf]

I know it's the Daily Mail and they are usually a bit off, but I was reading this and kind of agree with Jamie Oliver. Why should binge drinkers be allowed treatment free of charge when they have messed themselves up through their own volition? I think the same could be said of smokers and lung damage too. I am not getting high and mighty because I too like to binge drink, but if I get sick then that should really come out of my own pocket (not that I ever get sick, mind).

Jamie Oliver: Fine 'binge-drink idiots' who clog up NHS | Mail Online

Thoughts?

[Gandalf]

And obese people could be added in there as well. I was watching a documentary on the Discovery channel about obese people the other week and there was this man who ate 22,000 calories a day. That is ridiculous. This man chooses to eat 10 times the normal person and wonders why he can't walk. I don't think the NHS should pay for people like that, but this was America so he will probably be left to die.

[Gandalf]

Ah, I was only joking on that last part! I should have added a smiley or something. I'm sure he wasn't left to die. But he might, I mean how could he afford health insurance not being able to do anything besides eating?

[Howlin Mad Missy]

miles,

should anorexics be treated on the NHS?
should depressed people be treated or just be told to snap out of it?

[Nameless]

I am not for obese peoples needing to pay because for many obese, it's either a genetics question or the case of a bad education on the matter: Sure, eating bacon and burgers aren't good, but there is also other insidious things that can make you become fat, like eating many feculents in one single meal but many peoples ignore it and biologically talking, some are more vulnerable to it than some others.
Now, how to split up the one responsible from the one who are obese because of a bad education or because of genetics/thyroid problems? Will we make an investigation on each one of them to prove who has to pay and who has not?
As for those smoking, the thing is that it's a very complicated issue globally:

- Peoples before were almost all smoking because it was considering cool and because nobody knew how bad it was (and at the time, it wasn't as toxic as today). Shall we make pay those who were uninformed about the problem as well? How do we split up the limit with proofs here?
- Passive smokers: What do we do with peoples who are working in bars or place where there is massive amount of smoke? They know it's dangerous but still chose to work there, shall we make them pay as well as they did chose that kind of life? What about kids? What about kids when they grow up who would have been the object of passive smoke from their parents?
- Some peoples might be pre-destined to have a lung cancer, smokers or not. IT is very possible that some smokers get lung cancer but not because they were smoking, in that case, isn't it discriminatory to make them pay if we can't prove that it's officially smoking that did cause that cancer?

These are some issues I have with that idea, perhaps a solution would be to ask a bit more on peoples life insurance who are smoking, nothing outrageous but a little something in order to help cover the global expenses related with it but I am absolutely not in favor to make pay obese peoples in general and to another extend, the smokers issue is quite complicated too.

[BIG H]

It's a difficult one this! You could say that the amount of money we pay into the NHS entitles us to do what the fuck we like and expect to be treated for it

[HattonTheHammer]

If someone gets skin cancer should they be treated?? they CHOSE to spend all that time under a sunbed

If someone has aids should they be treated?? they CHOSE to stick mandingos tallkywacker inside of them

horses for courses, NHS is there to treat sick people not judge them on how they got there in the 1st place. Only thing i will say is that surgery to make an overweight person thin is just wrong. Only the real fattys should be allowed to have their stomachs stapled

[Gandalf]

Yeah, it's an interesting one and I hadn't really considered it before. Also from articles I have read binge drinking appears to be particularly out of control in the UK. A penalty for emergency care brought on by binge drinking might provide an incentive to moderate behaviour and to consider the impact it has. Like I say, I do binge drink myself (but never to the state where I am passing out) and would quite happily cough up if it went to far and led to me being hospitalised. I don't see why society as a whole should cover the cost of self excess.

HTH, you aren't possibly trying to tell me that you think gays should recieve life extending AID's medicine courtesy of the NHS!?

[ono]

I believe that smoking and alcohol consumption should be made illegal. Causes more widespread damage to more people than recreational drugs. It's a huge problem. I don't go out that much on a weekend anymore, but decided to go out into Manchester after the Haye fight. I saw a piss head booting someone in the head whilst he was on the floor and a little later on i saw a man laying down out cold, on his own in the rain.

Of course it will never happen but imo it's a problem

[Gandalf]

miles,

should anorexics be treated on the NHS?
should depressed people be treated or just be told to snap out of it?

I think anorexia is a more complicated problem than the habitual drinker who gets drunk to oblivion 3 nights a week with his friends. Anorexics aren't costing the taxpayer 3 billion pounds a year and you can sympathise with their condition. It's difficult to sympathise with the habitual binge drinker. I don't regard myself as sick and I wouldn't expect anyone else to either. I regard binge drinking as more a social problem rather than a medical condition. Two nights a week is my limit and no more than half a dozen beers these days. To an extent I regulate myself and think other drinkers should too. To not do so is a bit silly.

In terms of depression, I think people should have access to medicine and pay towards it, but it's a relatively common condition. To an extent I do think people with depression should try to sort it out themselves, but if they want medicine then they should take it. Personally, I would choose not to. Life is what it is and you just have to deal with it, but that's my approach and am not suggesting that is right for everyone.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

miles,

should anorexics be treated on the NHS?
should depressed people be treated or just be told to snap out of it?

I think anorexia is a more complicated problem than the habitual drinker who gets drunk to oblivion 3 nights a week with his friends. Anorexics aren't costing the taxpayer 3 billion pounds a year and you can sympathise with their condition. It's difficult to sympathise with the habitual binge drinker. I don't regard myself as sick and I wouldn't expect anyone else to either. I regard binge drinking as more a social problem rather than a medical condition. Two nights a week is my limit and no more than half a dozen beers these days. To an extent I regulate myself and think other drinkers should too. To not do so is a bit silly.

In terms of depression, I think people should have access to medicine and pay towards it, but it's a relatively common condition. To an extent I do think people with depression should try to sort it out themselves, but if they want medicine then they should take it. Personally, I would choose not to. Life is what it is and you just have to deal with it, but that's my approach and am not suggesting that is right for everyone.

you mentioned obese people not being treated so I countered with anorexia. Both in my opinion are mental health issues and not just about someone being greedy or someone having a sulk and not eating.

in many instances people can help themselves but they have to have the tools and motivation to do it.

Miles, I think you'd like this book. Takes a really interesting view of some of the issues you raise and that others are bringing.

The Rainbow Machine by Andrew T. Austin

[Howlin Mad Missy]

Yeah, it's an interesting one and I hadn't really considered it before. Also from articles I have read binge drinking appears to be particularly out of control in the UK. A penalty for emergency care brought on by binge drinking might provide an incentive to moderate behaviour and to consider the impact it has. Like I say, I do binge drink myself (but never to the state where I am passing out) and would quite happily cough up if it went to far and led to me being hospitalised. I don't see why society as a whole should cover the cost of self excess.

HTH, you aren't possibly trying to tell me that you think gays should recieve life extending AID's medicine courtesy of the NHS!?

Now if you were asking Bilbo or HTH if those gays should then be allowed to use army showers...

[HattonTheHammer]

Yeah, it's an interesting one and I hadn't really considered it before. Also from articles I have read binge drinking appears to be particularly out of control in the UK. A penalty for emergency care brought on by binge drinking might provide an incentive to moderate behaviour and to consider the impact it has. Like I say, I do binge drink myself (but never to the state where I am passing out) and would quite happily cough up if it went to far and led to me being hospitalised. I don't see why society as a whole should cover the cost of self excess.

HTH, you aren't possibly trying to tell me that you think gays should recieve life extending AID's medicine courtesy of the NHS!?

I believe they should be allowed to the same rights that normal straight people have

As long as they arent allowed back into society to spread such diseases by working with food or other such things ive no problem whatsoever!!

[HattonTheHammer]

I believe that smoking and alcohol consumption should be made illegal. Causes more widespread damage to more people than recreational drugs. It's a huge problem. I don't go out that much on a weekend anymore, but decided to go out into Manchester after the Haye fight. I saw a piss head booting someone in the head whilst he was on the floor and a little later on i saw a man laying down out cold, on his own in the rain.

Of course it will never happen but imo it's a problem

=

Ive got no friends therefore have never tried either thing but would much prefer it to be outlawed so nobody can ever have a good time again.

weirdo

[ono]

I believe that smoking and alcohol consumption should be made illegal. Causes more widespread damage to more people than recreational drugs. It's a huge problem. I don't go out that much on a weekend anymore, but decided to go out into Manchester after the Haye fight. I saw a piss head booting someone in the head whilst he was on the floor and a little later on i saw a man laying down out cold, on his own in the rain.

Of course it will never happen but imo it's a problem

=

Ive got no friends therefore have never tried either thing but would much prefer it to be outlawed so nobody can ever have a good time again.

weirdo

For stating that alcohol abuse and tobacco abuse is a bigger drain on NHS resources than recreational drugs? Not sure how that adds up.

I don't want to outlaw anything, but seen as though we do, my point was, if recreational drugs are outlawed because they are deemed dangerous, then surely alcohol and tobacco are more dangerous, therefore should be illegal.

I know, it's a logical thought process and i understand because there isn't a 'SUN Campaign' against it, you'll have trouble getting your head around it.