Training device

[atgatt]

Look, I'm new to this forum and don't want to break any rules. I have a device that throws straight 18 inch punches from 5 to 13 mph. The average jab is 9 mph so it gives plenty of reaction time practice from slow to super fast. Much better training than a slip bag IMHO.

I did not see a training section but this one came the closest. I will not post the webiste showing the device unless I get permission and I didn't see anything in the rules about posting a site when I joined.

So, trainer, please let me know if I should post the site or not. It is not for sale anyway and all I want are inputs.

Thanks...John

[ryanman]

Hi john. welcome to the site. This device sounds great. How did you come across it?

[atgatt]

ryan, I'm the one that invented it. It is intended to be a tool, not a sparring partner; obviously nothing can be made to replace the human body. My background is competition action pistol shooting, not to say that I don't love my little boxing gym at home. It's just that I was looking for something that I could help train my reaction times like I did in shooting. A tool that could take me from slow to faster as I learned slowly to go faster, just like shooting.

Think of it as a much better slip bag and just another reflex training device. Keep in mind too that I don't have true boxing experience like you all do. My only glove fights were with friends and I had more street fights that were NOT with friends, so what the device does may not be for people who box.

[Chris Nagel]

Hey John, you're in the right place. This is the training section of the board.

By the way, we had a related thread that you might be interested in. You can read it here: http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...ternative.html

I think that a machine that can punch straight out is a good idea. Having a thick pad behind the punching machine would be helpful, since it's natural to throw a counter punch after slipping a punch.

[atgatt]

Chris, I read that thread and it is nice to know people share my thoughts. It would be nice to have realistic punches come at you. I tried this in a few other forums and it was about 50/50, some liked it and others thought it was a waste. It IS a waste in thinking it can do all that a sparring partner could do. To me, they missed the point but we all have our opinions.

So I gather it is ok to post the device and it could be looked at here:

Robotic Boxing Trainer (RBT) - Home

Ignore my poor presentation, take it for what it is rather than what it's not, and let me know what you think.

It was extremely hard to find the right parts to mimic human jab speeds and yet not hurt like a human punch does.

[Chris Nagel]

Hi John, sorry that your post didn't show up at first. Our forum is set up so any posts by a new member that contains a website link is blocked until a moderator approves it. It's just a safeguard against spam. Again sorry for any inconvenience.

Here are my thoughts:
That's really nifty! Very dynamic, especially with the feedback. I'd like to put a kiddy boxing glove at the end of it and tape it so that it's rolled into a fist.

I think it would be nice if you could get closer to it without the compressor and punching bag getting in the way. That way I can step forward after avoiding it's punch, or I can just bend a little at my waist so that my head is moved off to the side, and out of the way of the punch.

Anyways it's getting late over here (EST), and like to talk about this more tomorrow. Thanks for sharing!

[atgatt]

Chris, thanks for the feed back and I appreciate this forum letting post what I have so it could be made better.

Real quick, I can not add gloves as it is now because of the weight it adds. I may be able to do a fake glove sometime that is filled with a light foam but that will disfigure in shape in no time at all. At least with the size fist it has now, if you can stop it slipping into you, you sure can stop a glove.

About the compressor and bag in front, that is just a traveling version I made to possibly show at some gyms. In reality, you can just attach the arms or arm to a wall, put them at any height, width or angle and have nothing else in your way.

About getting closer, I have data what your reaction time must be at the end of the 18 inch punch from slow to fast speed. When a person is let's say at 9 inches from the fist, your reaction time is about half because I had tested with radar the speeds at half way and they are just as fast as all the way. What I'm saying is, you have to be VERY fast at 18 inches let alone at 9.

[Chris Nagel]

Yeah that can punch really fast. Do you simply adjust the air pressure to change the speed?

[atgatt]

Yes, simply change to pressure to change the speed. Once done, the speed is very consistent. So let's say you got it down to slip a 7 mph punch, if you turn it up about 10 psi it will be a bit faster so then you work at that speed and so on.

The amount of punches and the sequence can be changed by the program setting. It could have numerous program settings. I'm only showing one.

An error people make is they say that they and others can punch much faster than 13 mph. So can I. My jab is 10 mph without cocking it first. My right cross is 17 mph and if I measure my long hook, it would be even faster. That only matters for power of the punch, not reaction times because those punches start from way back, and for a punch to start way back means some punch was thrown already to set up the long punch or the person moved a guard hand back to throw a punch from farther back. All of that takes time. So in reality, the true test of reaction time is WHERE the punch originated from the guard position and the distance it traveled. So a 13 mph jab (which may not be humanly possible) traveling 18 inches gives a reaction time of just 800 ms. If a person can stop that punch, they should be able to stop any of the others. I just don't think anyone is that fast but maybe some day a pro boxer will let me see if they can on the RBT. I'd bet they can't. Anyway, you get the picture.

[Scrap]

Like the idea, but how was it tested, to do what it says it does. It doesnt add up.

[atgatt]

How was it tested? By radar. What part does not add up? The lower hit force is from the 10 oz arm rather than a 9 to 12 lb human arm going at the same speed.

Again, everything it says it does is true, but it's NOT a sparring partner. Still, it's a workout and it sure teaches keep your guard up.

[ryanman]

I think its great John. I've checked out your website and the videos on youtube. Kudos to you for devising and putting it together. I think it could be a really useful tool, for people that just want to have fun and get fit at home, or people new to boxing.

[atgatt]

ryanman, thanks for seeing it for what it is. It does teach that jabs come in very fast and you're much better off having your guard up already rather than making it come up after the punch started at you because that is usually too late, at least it is for me.

Also, in the vids I was cheating and I don't do that anymore. I had my hands in front of me just trying to show blocking the RBT arms but in reality I keep them farther to me and slightly to the sides to guard from a hook.

I can't slip the RBT even at 7 mph. I just can't move back or to the side that fast. All I can do is block it with my hands. It always sneaks punches through but it is a lot less than when I started.

Like you said, it is FUN and I may see how it may market in the exercise customer base. I love to hit the speed bags, double end bags and heavy bag, but my shoulders get the most tired boxing against the RBT. Part of the reason is punching from a distance and keeping my guard up all the time. MUCH different workout than just hitting.

[Scrap]

Not criticiseing matey just asking what tests have been done. THe thing being its not reaction as such that makes the blocking or slipping of a punch effective, its the movement or action before the shot byou react to. Its the permatation of lots of things. The eye sense or message doesnt go direct to the brain its the only sense that doesnt. I would think it could give bad habits, like waiting for the action rather than avoidance. Just curious , wish you well with it.

[atgatt]

Scrap, agreed, it could give bad habits. It has to be taken within the realm of what it is doing. One has to realize that it is only throwing straight punches and it is not moving. That said, I could pick up a lot worse habits just hitting a heavy bag or double end bag that is not even punching back. I always say, anyone can look good hitting something that does not strike back, even an old man like me.

About waiting for action rather than avoidance, I have learned to NOT wait, guard to avoid, get in and out QUICK because action beats reaction. Still, the other person acts too and no matter what, a person has to react sometime. In the vids I was showing blocking.

What it has taught me, I am not personally fast enough to slip punches, so when I come in to punch, I try to do it fast and keep a guard that exposes the least amount when going in to punch. Now I know I could block faster with my arms and hands much faster than I could slip.

I was surprised too when I read research that a sound registers faster with the brain than sight. An unfair advantage the RBT has is that it has no elbow, torso, feet, etc, that all move in a human punch, giving more to see along with the moving punch. The RBT arms just pop out...BAAAAAM!