Was the power of Earnie Shavers overrated?

[holmcall]

Earnie Shavers retired with a 74 (KO6-14 (KO 7)-1 record and an impressive KO percentage of 76.4. Each year his awesome power seems to grow in legendary status, but I for one think it just might be a bit overrated. Sure, icing guys like Ken Norton, Henry Clark, Jimmy Young, and Jimmy Ellis is impressive, but knocking out Lou Bailey (17-35-5), Tommy Howard (2-17-2), (Charley Polite 913-21-3), Cleo Daniels (7-24), Johnny Mac (5-6), Art Miller (21-25-2), and Lee Estes (12-23-3) is quite something else. When Shavers stepped down, he usually chilled, but when he stepped up, he had only fair success and was chilled seven times. Still, he won almost twenty seven fights in a row by knockout and tallied twenty four first round wins..

He is rated tenth in Ring Magazine's 100 Greatest Punchers. And below is Boxing Illustrated’s ten Hardest Punchers P4P of All-Time.

1. Jimmy Wilde
2. Max Baer
3. Bob Fitzsimmons
4. George Chaney
5. Charles Ledoux
6. Bob Satterfield
7. Earnie Shavers
8. Joe Louis
9. Jack Dempsey
10. Sandy Saddler

Like Bob Satterfield, he came out bombing, letting caution to the wind and with no “what if” plans. He tired badly in the later rounds--but his punches were like jackhammers! He was pure excitement. Many boxing articles start out as folloows: “Earnie Shavers was a devastating one punch knockout artist. He wasn't overly quick or agile and didn't take a great punch, but he had the best one punch power in the history of boxing.”

Legend has it that Shavers split his glove open from the force of a hard punch he landed on Colombian Bernardo Mercado when they fought in 1980. What the story often fails to include is that Mercado went on to earn a seventh round technical knockout over the always dangerous, multiple-time world title challenger. In his previous fight, “The Acorn” had floored Larry Holmes with mind numbing shot, but still could not close the show and, as was the case against Mercado, was stopped in the later rounds. In 1977, he hit Muhammad Ali with a number of flush power punches, but Ali withstood the onslaught and won by 15-round UD.

In one of the truly great fights ever, Shavers stopped a gassed Roy “Tiger” Williams after 10 rounds of incredible back-and-forth action in 1976. But this KO was more the result of an accumulation of punches than any single shot. In 1974, he iced Roy “Cookie” Wallace in one. However, this win was book-ended by losses to Bob Stallings (21-24) and Jerry Quarry (47-6-4).

Shavers vs. Lyle -1975

In 1975 in one of the greatest fight ever fought under the radar, Shavers (49-4-1 coming in) met rugged Ron Lyle in Denver. The “Acorn” had just come off three straight wins over limited Leon Shaw, Rochelle Norris and Oliver Wright, respectfully, but Lyle (30-3-1) was far from limited. Shavers decked Lyle in round two with two malefic left hooks and looked to close matters in the third, but Lyle regrouped and came storming back. In round four Shavers almost decked Lyle again after having been hurt earlier in the round. At this point, the crowd was going wild. In round five, Shavers gassed as is his wont, as Lyle then savaged him with sharp combos. Earnie came out for the sixth stanza seemingly groggy and Lyle wasted little time jumping on him with several consecutive shots the last of which cracked The Acorn cold and left him lying face down on the canvas.

In what this is all about, Ron Lyle snatched victory from certain defeat to knockout Earnie Shavers because Shavers could not close matters. As for Lyle, he would fight his classic battle with George Foreman in his next fight and would never be the same afterthat war. But on this night in his hometown of Denver, he was the MAN.

1980-1995

After his stoppage loss to Mercado, Shavers won a ten-rounder against Leroy Boone. In another 1980 bout, he hit Tex Cobb with everything but the kitchen sink (in arguably his last high-profile bout), but could not do what Dee Collier later accomplished. He lost this brawl by eighth round TKO after being pummeled on the top of his shaven head non-stop. He then has success against moderate opposition (including a win over Joe Bugner on cuts) until he was out pointed by James Tillis in 1982 and again by Walter Santamore (17-10) that same year. In 1983, the power seemed all but gone as he went 10 successful rounds with one Robin Griffin (0-0 coming in).

After being DQd against George Chaplin in 1983, he KOd Larry Sims (3-18-3) in one, but then, in an ill-advised comeback, he went the eight round distance against hapless Brian Morgan (4-20-1). His last fight was a humiliating first round KO loss to none other than Brian “B-52” Yates who retried with a less than compelling slate of 13-86-3.

In retrospect, Earnie was a wrecking machine, but in many key fights against solid opposition, he was unable to execute a clean KO after he had staggered his opponent and seemingly had him on the brink. He seemed to lack that clean one-shot closer in the manner of a Bob Satterfield, Tommy Hearns, Wilfredo Gomez, Bob Foster, Alexis Arguello, Carlos Zarate, Gerald McClellan, Julian Jackson or even a prime Mike Tyson. There were many others I believe who are worthy of legendary status as one-punch KO artists-- and that’s my point. The perception of Shavers being a great one-punch KO artist just doesn’t seem to square with reality. Maybe it’s time for a new list.

Today

Earnie Shavers remains a fine credit to boxing having become an ordained Christian minister.

[SlimTrae]

For me it's who started the claim: Fighters who fought Shavers, how do we dispute them? Why would we dispute them?

Tyson for example: doesn't have foes who speak on him as the hardest puncher, but rather state: He is a hard puncher for a guy his size.

Ruddock got his jaw broke against Tyson in fight II because fight one was called premature- 12 +7 rounds Tyson couldn't do what Lennox did to Ruddock in a few rounds.

Holyfield: Never dropped by Tyson

Douglas: rose from the canvas like many of shavers opponents you accurately named.

Bruce Seldon: got hit on his flat top fro, I won't even go there on how fixed it looked.

Buster Mathis Jr. a fat chaloopa was considered a KO, but he was on his feet when it was stopped.

McNeely? Not sure how to respond whose next 5 losses were all TKO/KO's.

To this day, I will not watch the Lennox, fight, the way Tyson took a beating. But I will not dillute the power of Tyson just because he couldnt do what McCall & Rahman did: stop Lennox. Tyson's mental block or inability to bully Lennox is why he failed IMO. Beat Tyson mentally; stand up to him and he withers after 5-6 rounds.

Same with McBride & Danny Williams, they withstood Tyson's power & bully mindset, but I dont think it lessens Tyson power anymore than some bums who withstood Shavers power.

Alot of steam left his punches when he fought Ruddock II past 6 rounds.- Did Shavers loses steam as well?

IMO Shavers place in history as a hard puncher goes beyond historians and fans, because it begins with the guys who fought him. Many tomato cans retired because of him and the top who beat him don't speak of his boxing skills or his chin: they speak of his power as brutal. I accept their claim.

[Beanflicker]

I think it's just a case of people losing sight (or being ignorant of) the dramatic change in size and athletic ability that has gone on in the last 40-50 years. Earnie deserved his reputation as one of the game's biggest bombers because he has the backing of his peers, and his insane KO ratio speaks for itself. The guy was a huge bomber.

If you talk to anyone here, I think we all understand that a bomber at 147 (Thurman, Maidana, Pac, ect) does not hit as hard as a bomber at 160 (GGG, Lemieux, ect). GGG and Lemieux, who are brutal punchers at 160, pale in comparison to the power of a guy like Kovalev, who is a brutal puncher at 175. We see this all the time: a guy is a huge puncher at his original weight, he moves up and suddenly he's a decent puncher. He moves up again, and suddenly he only gets a knockout every couple of years. Look at Duran: hands of stone, destroying guys at 135, 63-1, 52 KO's. He goes up to WW, he doesn't have nearly the power. He goes up to MW, he doesn't stop anyone outside of a few inexperienced bums who had no business being in there with him. I'm not breaking any new ground, we can all agree and understand that LW power doesn't = WW power and so on.

So if we all know this, why do people still think that a 185lb guy like Dempsey or Marciano, or a 205-210lb guy like Shavers hits harder than a 250lb bomber like Samuel Peter?

And before people bring it up, I know that weight isn't everything and there's a lot more that goes into a punch than size. We've seen guys over 300lbs who weren't very big punchers. We've seen guys around the 210lb range in recent years (David Haye, Herbie Hide come to mind) who hit very hard. They were both very explosive athletes. George Foreman and Shavers were not explosive athletes, they were pure power guys with very flawed technique. And when you're comparing pure power guys at 205-215 and pure power guys at 245-255, there's going to be a big difference.

[Beanflicker]

For me it's who started the claim: Fighters who fought Shavers, how do we dispute them? Why would we dispute them?

Tyson for example: doesn't have foes who speak on him as the hardest puncher, but rather state: He is a hard puncher for a guy his size.

Ruddock got his jaw broke against Tyson in fight II because fight one was called premature- 12 +7 rounds Tyson couldn't do what Lennox did to Ruddock in a few rounds.

Holyfield: Never dropped by Tyson

Douglas: rose from the canvas like many of shavers opponents you accurately named.

Bruce Seldon: got hit on his flat top fro, I won't even go there on how fixed it looked.

Buster Mathis Jr. a fat chaloopa was considered a KO, but he was on his feet when it was stopped.

McNeely? Not sure how to respond whose next 5 losses were all TKO/KO's.

To this day, I will not watch the Lennox, fight, the way Tyson took a beating. But I will not dillute the power of Tyson just because he couldnt do what McCall & Rahman did: stop Lennox. Tyson's mental block or inability to bully Lennox is why he failed IMO. Beat Tyson mentally; stand up to him and he withers after 5-6 rounds.

Same with McBride & Danny Williams, they withstood Tyson's power & bully mindset, but I dont think it lessens Tyson power anymore than some bums who withstood Shavers power.

Alot of steam left his punches when he fought Ruddock II past 6 rounds.- Did Shavers loses steam as well?

IMO Shavers place in history as a hard puncher goes beyond historians and fans, because it begins with the guys who fought him. Many tomato cans retired because of him and the top who beat him don't speak of his boxing skills or his chin: they speak of his power as brutal. I accept their claim.

I think you're kind of reaching when you bring up the Tyson who fought McBride and Danny Williams...

[Beanflicker]

I'll say this: I'm a huge George Foreman fan, I've seen every fight you can see by the guy from his first career and second career, I've seen every Earnie Shavers fight available, I know they both hit like trucks, but I've NEVER seen either of them throw a punch with the concussive force that a 250lb Samuel Peter hit Jeremy Williams with. Very rarely did you see either of them knock a guy cold where he wasn't prone for several minutes.

[SlimTrae]

For me it's who started the claim: Fighters who fought Shavers, how do we dispute them? Why would we dispute them?

Tyson for example: doesn't have foes who speak on him as the hardest puncher, but rather state: He is a hard puncher for a guy his size.

Ruddock got his jaw broke against Tyson in fight II because fight one was called premature- 12 +7 rounds Tyson couldn't do what Lennox did to Ruddock in a few rounds.

Holyfield: Never dropped by Tyson

Douglas: rose from the canvas like many of shavers opponents you accurately named.

Bruce Seldon: got hit on his flat top fro, I won't even go there on how fixed it looked.

Buster Mathis Jr. a fat chaloopa was considered a KO, but he was on his feet when it was stopped.

McNeely? Not sure how to respond whose next 5 losses were all TKO/KO's.

To this day, I will not watch the Lennox, fight, the way Tyson took a beating. But I will not dillute the power of Tyson just because he couldnt do what McCall & Rahman did: stop Lennox. Tyson's mental block or inability to bully Lennox is why he failed IMO. Beat Tyson mentally; stand up to him and he withers after 5-6 rounds.

Same with McBride & Danny Williams, they withstood Tyson's power & bully mindset, but I dont think it lessens Tyson power anymore than some bums who withstood Shavers power.

Alot of steam left his punches when he fought Ruddock II past 6 rounds.- Did Shavers loses steam as well?

IMO Shavers place in history as a hard puncher goes beyond historians and fans, because it begins with the guys who fought him. Many tomato cans retired because of him and the top who beat him don't speak of his boxing skills or his chin: they speak of his power as brutal. I accept their claim.

I think you're kind of reaching when you bring up the Tyson who fought McBride and Danny Williams...

Like stretch arm strong...
Well the old saying is power is the last to leave you, nevertheless, they can be omitted from this discussion!

[brocktonblockbust]

Earnie Shavers retired with a 74 (KO6-14 (KO 7)-1 record and an impressive KO percentage of 76.4. Each year his awesome power seems to grow in legendary status, but I for one think it just might be a bit overrated. Sure, icing guys like Ken Norton, Henry Clark, Jimmy Young, and Jimmy Ellis is impressive, but knocking out Lou Bailey (17-35-5), Tommy Howard (2-17-2), (Charley Polite 913-21-3), Cleo Daniels (7-24), Johnny Mac (5-6), Art Miller (21-25-2), and Lee Estes (12-23-3) is quite something else. When Shavers stepped down, he usually chilled, but when he stepped up, he had only fair success and was chilled seven times. Still, he won almost twenty seven fights in a row by knockout and tallied twenty four first round wins..

He is rated tenth in Ring Magazine's 100 Greatest Punchers. And below is Boxing Illustrated’s ten Hardest Punchers P4P of All-Time.

1. Jimmy Wilde
2. Max Baer
3. Bob Fitzsimmons
4. George Chaney
5. Charles Ledoux
6. Bob Satterfield
7. Earnie Shavers
8. Joe Louis
9. Jack Dempsey
10. Sandy Saddler

Like Bob Satterfield, he came out bombing, letting caution to the wind and with no “what if” plans. He tired badly in the later rounds--but his punches were like jackhammers! He was pure excitement. Many boxing articles start out as folloows: “Earnie Shavers was a devastating one punch knockout artist. He wasn't overly quick or agile and didn't take a great punch, but he had the best one punch power in the history of boxing.”

Legend has it that Shavers split his glove open from the force of a hard punch he landed on Colombian Bernardo Mercado when they fought in 1980. What the story often fails to include is that Mercado went on to earn a seventh round technical knockout over the always dangerous, multiple-time world title challenger. In his previous fight, “The Acorn” had floored Larry Holmes with mind numbing shot, but still could not close the show and, as was the case against Mercado, was stopped in the later rounds. In 1977, he hit Muhammad Ali with a number of flush power punches, but Ali withstood the onslaught and won by 15-round UD.

In one of the truly great fights ever, Shavers stopped a gassed Roy “Tiger” Williams after 10 rounds of incredible back-and-forth action in 1976. But this KO was more the result of an accumulation of punches than any single shot. In 1974, he iced Roy “Cookie” Wallace in one. However, this win was book-ended by losses to Bob Stallings (21-24) and Jerry Quarry (47-6-4).

Shavers vs. Lyle -1975

In 1975 in one of the greatest fight ever fought under the radar, Shavers (49-4-1 coming in) met rugged Ron Lyle in Denver. The “Acorn” had just come off three straight wins over limited Leon Shaw, Rochelle Norris and Oliver Wright, respectfully, but Lyle (30-3-1) was far from limited. Shavers decked Lyle in round two with two malefic left hooks and looked to close matters in the third, but Lyle regrouped and came storming back. In round four Shavers almost decked Lyle again after having been hurt earlier in the round. At this point, the crowd was going wild. In round five, Shavers gassed as is his wont, as Lyle then savaged him with sharp combos. Earnie came out for the sixth stanza seemingly groggy and Lyle wasted little time jumping on him with several consecutive shots the last of which cracked The Acorn cold and left him lying face down on the canvas.

In what this is all about, Ron Lyle snatched victory from certain defeat to knockout Earnie Shavers because Shavers could not close matters. As for Lyle, he would fight his classic battle with George Foreman in his next fight and would never be the same afterthat war. But on this night in his hometown of Denver, he was the MAN.

1980-1995

After his stoppage loss to Mercado, Shavers won a ten-rounder against Leroy Boone. In another 1980 bout, he hit Tex Cobb with everything but the kitchen sink (in arguably his last high-profile bout), but could not do what Dee Collier later accomplished. He lost this brawl by eighth round TKO after being pummeled on the top of his shaven head non-stop. He then has success against moderate opposition (including a win over Joe Bugner on cuts) until he was out pointed by James Tillis in 1982 and again by Walter Santamore (17-10) that same year. In 1983, the power seemed all but gone as he went 10 successful rounds with one Robin Griffin (0-0 coming in).

After being DQd against George Chaplin in 1983, he KOd Larry Sims (3-18-3) in one, but then, in an ill-advised comeback, he went the eight round distance against hapless Brian Morgan (4-20-1). His last fight was a humiliating first round KO loss to none other than Brian “B-52” Yates who retried with a less than compelling slate of 13-86-3.

In retrospect, Earnie was a wrecking machine, but in many key fights against solid opposition, he was unable to execute a clean KO after he had staggered his opponent and seemingly had him on the brink. He seemed to lack that clean one-shot closer in the manner of a Bob Satterfield, Tommy Hearns, Wilfredo Gomez, Bob Foster, Alexis Arguello, Carlos Zarate, Gerald McClellan, Julian Jackson or even a prime Mike Tyson. There were many others I believe who are worthy of legendary status as one-punch KO artists-- and that’s my point. The perception of Shavers being a great one-punch KO artist just doesn’t seem to square with reality. Maybe it’s time for a new list.

Today

Earnie Shavers remains a fine credit to boxing having become an ordained Christian minister.

Bottom line: 76 wins, 68 knockouts.
Ernie brought home the bacon.

[Bill Paxtom]

Earnie 'The Razor' Shavers

Was the man !

How anyone can question the power of this man.

And he had a nice head of hair.

[Master]

No his power was not over rated Ali and Holmes testified to his power and they fought Foreman and Tyson. It is not about pure power, it about landing it at the right time, place and person.

BTW Shavers would have done the same to Jeremy Williams.

[brocktonblockbust]

Anyone who doubts Ali, Holmes, Lyle saying Shavers hit hardest of all SHOULD GET THEIR ASS IN THE RING AND SEE or just shut the fuck up.

[Bill Paxtom]

Earnie Shavers

The only guy to drop Roy 'Tiger' Williams {6' 4" @ 235 lbs.}.

That was an impossible feat.

[holmcall]

Anyone who doubts Ali, Holmes, Lyle saying Shavers hit hardest of all SHOULD GET THEIR ASS IN THE RING AND SEE or just shut the fuck up.

I'm just asking; not saying.

[Beanflicker]

BTW Shavers would have done the same to Jeremy Williams.

He probably would have gotten knocked out. He stunk

[Max Power]

Shavers punch/KO power does not compare with the power of Mike Tyson.

They play in totally separate leagues.

Despite all the comments about Tysons power in the second post being questionable, it doesn't detract from the overall picture.

Mike Tyson was only allowed to fight very few Cruiserweights, whereas Shavers record consists of mostly Cruisers.

When we break down Shavers and Tysons records vs -200, 200-215 and 215+ (today's HW at fight), we see the dramatic difference in performance.

Sub 200, both guys are indomitable punchers.

200-215, Tyson is still in the 90%ile, ALREADY, just over the HW limit, Shavers KO% drops to around 65%. He was still a hard puncher at this HW but borderline Cruisery stage, but already NOTHING SPECIAL.

215+, Which only the smallest of former cruisers box below at HW these days, Tyson STILL shows a 70%ile KO performance, a very hard puncher, and Shavers KO performance drops into the 40%ile.

In the realm of what we TODAY call HW, Mike Tyson is a power puncher and Earnie Shavers is a FEATHERFIST!

I didn't run numbers but consider this, the AVERAGE HW boxer today is 225-230lbs! The AVERAGE Klitschko opponent today is 235-240lbs! At 230+ lbs, Tyson is still a good puncher, Shaver's is basically non-existent.

[Bill Paxtom]

Hey Max,

You no like Earnie ?