Was the power of Earnie Shavers overrated?

[Beanflicker]

For me it's who started the claim: Fighters who fought Shavers, how do we dispute them? Why would we dispute them?

Tyson for example: doesn't have foes who speak on him as the hardest puncher, but rather state: He is a hard puncher for a guy his size.

Ruddock got his jaw broke against Tyson in fight II because fight one was called premature- 12 +7 rounds Tyson couldn't do what Lennox did to Ruddock in a few rounds.

Holyfield: Never dropped by Tyson

Douglas: rose from the canvas like many of shavers opponents you accurately named.

Bruce Seldon: got hit on his flat top fro, I won't even go there on how fixed it looked.

Buster Mathis Jr. a fat chaloopa was considered a KO, but he was on his feet when it was stopped.

McNeely? Not sure how to respond whose next 5 losses were all TKO/KO's.

To this day, I will not watch the Lennox, fight, the way Tyson took a beating. But I will not dillute the power of Tyson just because he couldnt do what McCall & Rahman did: stop Lennox. Tyson's mental block or inability to bully Lennox is why he failed IMO. Beat Tyson mentally; stand up to him and he withers after 5-6 rounds.

Same with McBride & Danny Williams, they withstood Tyson's power & bully mindset, but I dont think it lessens Tyson power anymore than some bums who withstood Shavers power.

Alot of steam left his punches when he fought Ruddock II past 6 rounds.- Did Shavers loses steam as well?

IMO Shavers place in history as a hard puncher goes beyond historians and fans, because it begins with the guys who fought him. Many tomato cans retired because of him and the top who beat him don't speak of his boxing skills or his chin: they speak of his power as brutal. I accept their claim.

I think you're kind of reaching when you bring up the Tyson who fought McBride and Danny Williams...

[Beanflicker]

I'll say this: I'm a huge George Foreman fan, I've seen every fight you can see by the guy from his first career and second career, I've seen every Earnie Shavers fight available, I know they both hit like trucks, but I've NEVER seen either of them throw a punch with the concussive force that a 250lb Samuel Peter hit Jeremy Williams with. Very rarely did you see either of them knock a guy cold where he wasn't prone for several minutes.

[Spicoli]

I'll say this: I'm a huge George Foreman fan, I've seen every fight you can see by the guy from his first career and second career, I've seen every Earnie Shavers fight available, I know they both hit like trucks, but I've NEVER seen either of them throw a punch with the concussive force that a 250lb Samuel Peter hit Jeremy Williams with. Very rarely did you see either of them knock a guy cold where he wasn't prone for several minutes.

Its Jeremy Williams I've always wondered if that was a hill to top for Peter as he went on, relying on power wise.

I think for the large part power tends to be overrated and overstated. Its who are you ko'ing...and can-are you doing it while facing adversity.

[holmcall]

Shavers was one of the first boxers to use weights in his training routine. His upper body was massive but he neglected the legs. His muscularity was reported to have caused him a stamina issue.

[Max Power]

Shavers was one of the first boxers to use weights in his training routine. His upper body was massive but he neglected the legs. His muscularity was reported to have caused him a stamina issue.

The first boxer to use weights PROPERLY for boxing scientifically was in fact Michael Spinks. There were boxers who used weights primatively well before Shavers and all of them sucked badly the same as he did.

Weights ALWAYS affects stamina, it is one of the worst things for ring stamina and is why boxers who lift weights now periodize.

Shavers looked like crap, body and style. Ridiculous figure.

[Max Power]

Its Jeremy Williams I've always wondered if that was a hill to top for Peter as he went on, relying on power wise.

I think for the large part power tends to be overrated and overstated. Its who are you ko'ing...and can-are you doing it while facing adversity.

So you will bummify Jeremy Williams here to try and refute Peters power OR as you've also alluded to, try to DOWNGRADE power as a virtue altogether to cover it up AND make the claim that it matters WHO you are knocking out.

Your first point is off base because Jeremy Williams would have been one of Earnie Shavers best opponents and better than a lot of opponents who beat Earnie. In fact I think Jeremy Williams would have beaten Shavers.

Second point, Power is DEFINITELY a virtue of great magnitude. OF COURSE it is not the only thing relevant but many boxers (George Foreman, Samuel Peter, David Tua, EARNIE SHAVERS) have achieved top level with relatively little more), so obviously it is of importance, especially in the HW division!

Third point is particularly nefarious, considering Peters overall competition is approximately 100x better than the competition of Earnie Shavers was completely objectively. Samuel Peter was HW champ, there's a reason for that and Earnie never was and Earnie NEVER KNOCKED OUT A DECENT OPPONENT! With the single exception of Ken Norton who was a prolific bum buster himself, had no boxing pedigree and had a glass jaw and never even won his own title in the ring!

[Spicoli]

Its Jeremy Williams I've always wondered if that was a hill to top for Peter as he went on, relying on power wise.

I think for the large part power tends to be overrated and overstated. Its who are you ko'ing...and can-are you doing it while facing adversity.

So you will bummify Jeremy Williams here to try and refute Peters power OR as you've also alluded to, try to DOWNGRADE power as a virtue altogether to cover it up AND make the claim that it matters WHO you are knocking out.

Your first point is off base because Jeremy Williams would have been one of Earnie Shavers best opponents and better than a lot of opponents who beat Earnie. In fact I think Jeremy Williams would have beaten Shavers.

Second point, Power is DEFINITELY a virtue of great magnitude. OF COURSE it is not the only thing relevant but many boxers (George Foreman, Samuel Peter, David Tua, EARNIE SHAVERS) have achieved top level with relatively little more), so obviously it is of importance, especially in the HW division!

Third point is particularly nefarious, considering Peters overall competition is approximately 100x better than the competition of Earnie Shavers was completely objectively. Samuel Peter was HW champ, there's a reason for that and Earnie never was and Earnie NEVER KNOCKED OUT A DECENT OPPONENT! With the single exception of Ken Norton who was a prolific bum buster himself, had no boxing pedigree and had a glass jaw and never even won his own title in the ring!

Its not the bummification of Williams, its simply the fact that a notorious puncher like Henry Akinwande was able to starch him with a single shot years earlier and Brian Nielson literally embarrassing him. The guy was near same weight as Shavers and showed shat stamina and a chin with the punch resistance of a Wal Mart bag full of light bulbs his entire career and between retirements. Great shot often talked about but certainly didn't make Peter the one punch ko artist he thought himself afterwards.

Power is indeed a virtue at heavy but lumping Foreman with a Tua, Shavers or even Peter is a stretch. As with Peter I think the Ruiz highlight ko was a back handed blessing for Tua. He got stuck on it and it turned out to be a one trick pony he always fell back on. Power without a delivery system, a set up, skill and discipline leaves you just throwing bricks with your eyes closed. Foreman early on had some caveman in him but damn sure developed all of the above and ran off another career with it. Tua was by all accounts the lil train that couldn't.

An off injury and rust covered Oleg Maskaev losing a trinket to Peter may be more of an indictment on the pimpification and pollution of trinkets falling out of gumball machines today rather than anything else. Are we making that Peters most significant ko while also disparaging Shavers ko of Norton with a straight face? Or would that be Jeremy Williams? Come on man

[Bill Paxtom]

Earnie Shavers

Only wanted to be an entertaining slugger.

He wasn't into playing Tiddly-Winks in the Ring.

Earnie Shavers >

"I could have easily boxed and jabbed. But who the Hell wants to see that. That is
why they have Featherweights."

"When people spend their hard earned money, they want to see Heavyweights slug
it out. I have no problem losing a bout. There will always be another one."

[Max Power]

Its not the bummification of Williams, its simply the fact that a notorious puncher like Henry Akinwande was able to starch him with a single shot years earlier and Brian Nielson literally embarrassing him. The guy was near same weight as Shavers and showed shat stamina and a chin with the punch resistance of a Wal Mart bag full of light bulbs his entire career and between retirements. Great shot often talked about but certainly didn't make Peter the one punch ko artist he thought himself afterwards.

Power is indeed a virtue at heavy but lumping Foreman with a Tua, Shavers or even Peter is a stretch. As with Peter I think the Ruiz highlight ko was a back handed blessing for Tua. He got stuck on it and it turned out to be a one trick pony he always fell back on. Power without a delivery system, a set up, skill and discipline leaves you just throwing bricks with your eyes closed. Foreman early on had some caveman in him but damn sure developed all of the above and ran off another career with it. Tua was by all accounts the lil train that couldn't.

An off injury and rust covered Oleg Maskaev losing a trinket to Peter may be more of an indictment on the pimpification and pollution of trinkets falling out of gumball machines today rather than anything else. Are we making that Peters most significant ko while also disparaging Shavers ko of Norton with a straight face? Or would that be Jeremy Williams? Come on man

Haha, that was a sharp as razor post there mate and you made some good points.

I fully agree the competition your up against negates power. Even for the best KOers of all time, the Klitschko's, Lennox and Tyson, their KO powers were reduced the higher quality the opposition they fought. Even if they did still KO them, it was pushed further into the later rounds.

Of course this is the case. I've no dispute there.

However, as glass jawed as Jeremy Williams was, you can't exactly detract too much from being wasted by guys like Akinwande or Peter because their power WAS proven at a higher level than Shavers was.

Of course you illustrated Ken Norton and drew the comparison with Oleg Maskaev and yeah sure, I realise the irony here, thanks for that. But I find it difficult to overturn Peter's career which was largely characterised by whacking out decent opponents left and right with Shavers who managed to stop early a washed up Ken Norton. Oleg Maskaev himself WAS a championship boxer at the time PEter fought him. Norton really wasn't.

On Geroge Foreman, I was actually referring to ONLY 70's Geroge, the one who could barely even box. Perhaps the least skilled of all champion boxers. He definitely DID learn how to box properly for his second career I agree but that was really a completely different fighter then.

[brocktonblockbust]

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[holmcall]

http://www.heavyweightblog.com/2318/earnie-shavers-power-puncher-or-overrated-featherfist


Read it and weep

[SlimTrae]

For me it's who started the claim: Fighters who fought Shavers, how do we dispute them? Why would we dispute them?

Tyson for example: doesn't have foes who speak on him as the hardest puncher, but rather state: He is a hard puncher for a guy his size.

Ruddock got his jaw broke against Tyson in fight II because fight one was called premature- 12 +7 rounds Tyson couldn't do what Lennox did to Ruddock in a few rounds.

Holyfield: Never dropped by Tyson

Douglas: rose from the canvas like many of shavers opponents you accurately named.

Bruce Seldon: got hit on his flat top fro, I won't even go there on how fixed it looked.

Buster Mathis Jr. a fat chaloopa was considered a KO, but he was on his feet when it was stopped.

McNeely? Not sure how to respond whose next 5 losses were all TKO/KO's.

To this day, I will not watch the Lennox, fight, the way Tyson took a beating. But I will not dillute the power of Tyson just because he couldnt do what McCall & Rahman did: stop Lennox. Tyson's mental block or inability to bully Lennox is why he failed IMO. Beat Tyson mentally; stand up to him and he withers after 5-6 rounds.

Same with McBride & Danny Williams, they withstood Tyson's power & bully mindset, but I dont think it lessens Tyson power anymore than some bums who withstood Shavers power.

Alot of steam left his punches when he fought Ruddock II past 6 rounds.- Did Shavers loses steam as well?

IMO Shavers place in history as a hard puncher goes beyond historians and fans, because it begins with the guys who fought him. Many tomato cans retired because of him and the top who beat him don't speak of his boxing skills or his chin: they speak of his power as brutal. I accept their claim.

I think you're kind of reaching when you bring up the Tyson who fought McBride and Danny Williams...

Like stretch arm strong...
Well the old saying is power is the last to leave you, nevertheless, they can be omitted from this discussion!