Pacquiao's Accomplishments aren't really that Great

[generalbulldog]

Don't get me wrong he's a good fighter, but his accomplishments if you were to look at it objectively, which I know is a hard thing for many Pacman fans especially the Orientals, Pacific Islanders, and Fillipinos to do.

Let's look at his "accomplishments"
Hatton- Was never an elite fighter, and past his boxing prime
DeLaHoya-Weight drain and shot
Marquez- Most boxing experts and fans say he lost both fights despite the 4 knockdowns
Morales- Past his boxing prime because of all the wars Erik has been in. He wasn't past his physical prime, but his boxing prime for sure.
Barrera- A shot fighter and past his boxing prime even though he was only 29, been in too many wars.

So for the Fillipino fans and Pacman fans especially the Orientals, please be objective and analyze this. Pacman accomplishments aren't that great. Overrated yes especially in the days of ESPN and Nike.

And no I'm not Mexican or an Pacman "hater".

[mnmc10]

DeLaHoya-Weight drain and shot

pac was the underdog, even i predicted that odlh will win. but pac got the balls to fight oskie and thats good enough.

Hatton- Was never an elite fighter, and past his boxing prime

comparing the manner of how pac disposed of hatton compared to pbf wheter hatton is a class b fighter is impressive!

Marquez- Most boxing experts and fans say he lost both fights despite the 4 knockdowns

most boxing experts agreed that the 4 kd was not scored properly by the judge. but imho jmm has a win over pac, and to me only jmm has the ability to beat pac.

Barrera- A shot fighter and past his boxing prime even though he was only 29, been in too many wars.

BS!!! ask missy!

Morales- Past his boxing prime because of all the wars Erik has been in. He wasn't past his physical prime, but his boxing prime for sure.

morales though in the decline proved that he is still a worthy opponent. and only pac KO'd morales granite chin.


you also have to consider the weight divisions pac went through. he is actually too small to be at his present weight division but he still manages. heck a 5'6" this midget is being pitted to mosley, cotto and the likes?!

[Howlin Mad Missy]

DeLaHoya-Weight drain and shot

pac was the underdog, even i predicted that odlh will win. but pac got the balls to fight oskie and thats good enough.

Hatton- Was never an elite fighter, and past his boxing prime

comparing the manner of how pac disposed of hatton compared to pbf wheter hatton is a class b fighter is impressive!

Marquez- Most boxing experts and fans say he lost both fights despite the 4 knockdowns

most boxing experts agreed that the 4 kd was not scored properly by the judge. but imho jmm has a win over pac, and to me only jmm has the ability to beat pac.

Barrera- A shot fighter and past his boxing prime even though he was only 29, been in too many wars.

BS!!! ask missy!

Morales- Past his boxing prime because of all the wars Erik has been in. He wasn't past his physical prime, but his boxing prime for sure.

morales though in the decline proved that he is still a worthy opponent. and only pac KO'd morales granite chin.


you also have to consider the weight divisions pac went through. he is actually too small to be at his present weight division but he still manages. heck a 5'6" this midget is being pitted to mosley, cotto and the likes?!

I could tell you something about both fights but then I'd have to kill you and it has nothing to do with being shot ..........actually that doesn't sound too bad a deal when I come to think about it.


BTW. The above is true.

FACT

As for the debate. I think Pac has been very lucky and is well managed.

[Fenster]

I could tell you something about Barrera-Pac too but i'd have to kill you. Fact.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

I could tell you something about Barrera-Pac too but i'd have to kill you. Fact.

I'm sure you could but it wouldn't be the exclusive mine would be

All this killing sounds like some boxing jihad-a-thon.

[Fenster]

I could tell you something about Barrera-Pac too but i'd have to kill you. Fact.

I'm sure you could but it wouldn't be the exclusive mine would be

All this killing sounds like some boxing jihad-a-thon.

You think your story is more exclusive than mine? No chance.

I'd love to tell it but sadly can't.

[JazMerkin]

Don't get me wrong he's a good fighter, but his accomplishments if you were to look at it objectively, which I know is a hard thing for many Pacman fans especially the Orientals, Pacific Islanders, and Fillipinos to do.

Let's look at his "accomplishments"
Hatton- Was never an elite fighter, and past his boxing prime
DeLaHoya-Weight drain and shot
Marquez- Most boxing experts and fans say he lost both fights despite the 4 knockdowns
Morales- Past his boxing prime because of all the wars Erik has been in. He wasn't past his physical prime, but his boxing prime for sure.
Barrera- A shot fighter and past his boxing prime even though he was only 29, been in too many wars.

So for the Fillipino fans and Pacman fans especially the Orientals, please be objective and analyze this. Pacman accomplishments aren't that great. Overrated yes especially in the days of ESPN and Nike.

And no I'm not Mexican or an Pacman "hater".

Listen, any of the main posters on here can tell you, I'm far from a Pac-fan, but some of that is ridiculous.

ODLH was weight drained I agree, so I don't see that as a great win, but I was critical of that fight for BOTH fighters from the moment it was signed.

True, Hatton was not an elite fighter, but at the end of it, Pac still took on THE MAN at 140lbs & annihilated him, & that is a truly impressive feat. I will never criticize a fighter who takes on the real champion of the world in the division & dominates him. That was a win that marks him as a great regardless of whether Hatton was possibly finished after the PBF fight.

I also felt JMM won both fights, but that doesn't take away from the fact they were 2 great close fights, & the fact that Pac went to the wire with a man who is up there with the best of Mexican fighters says a lot about just how great he is.

Morales was shot for me in the 2nd & 3rd fights, however, it's important to note that the Pacquiao that lost in the first fight was nowhere near the fighter he would become. If you ask me who is the greater fighter it is Manny by a margin.

Lastly, Barrera, how anyone can complain about his 1st win over Barrera boggles my mind. MAB was in his prime (he still had enough to beat Morales a year later in a great fight) & was for many the P4P No.2, although he would be lower for me at that time, but nevertherless it remains an amazing win for a fighter not yet in his prime. By the 2nd fight he may have been shot, but that doesn't influence opinion on the 1st fight.

He is not as great as some on here would have you believe, but he IS great.

[C-Lo]

Don't get me wrong he's a good fighter, but his accomplishments if you were to look at it objectively, which I know is a hard thing for many Pacman fans especially the Orientals, Pacific Islanders, and Fillipinos to do.

Let's look at his "accomplishments"
Hatton- Was never an elite fighter, and past his boxing prime
DeLaHoya-Weight drain and shot
Marquez- Most boxing experts and fans say he lost both fights despite the 4 knockdowns
Morales- Past his boxing prime because of all the wars Erik has been in. He wasn't past his physical prime, but his boxing prime for sure.
Barrera- A shot fighter and past his boxing prime even though he was only 29, been in too many wars.

So for the Fillipino fans and Pacman fans especially the Orientals, please be objective and analyze this. Pacman accomplishments aren't that great. Overrated yes especially in the days of ESPN and Nike.

And no I'm not Mexican or an Pacman "hater".

Listen, any of the main posters on here can tell you, I'm far from a Pac-fan, but some of that is ridiculous.

ODLH was weight drained I agree, so I don't see that as a great win, but I was critical of that fight for BOTH fighters from the moment it was signed.

True, Hatton was not an elite fighter, but at the end of it, Pac still took on THE MAN at 140lbs & annihilated him, & that is a truly impressive feat. I will never criticize a fighter who takes on the real champion of the world in the division & dominates him. That was a win that marks him as a great regardless of whether Hatton was possibly finished after the PBF fight.

I also felt JMM won both fights, but that doesn't take away from the fact they were 2 great close fights, & the fact that Pac went to the wire with a man who is up there with the best of Mexican fighters says a lot about just how great he is.

Morales was shot for me in the 2nd & 3rd fights, however, it's important to note that the Pacquiao that lost in the first fight was nowhere near the fighter he would become. If you ask me who is the greater fighter it is Manny by a margin.

Lastly, Barrera, how anyone can complain about his 1st win over Barrera boggles my mind. MAB was in his prime (he still had enough to beat Morales a year later in a great fight) & was for many the P4P No.2, although he would be lower for me at that time, but nevertherless it remains an amazing win for a fighter not yet in his prime. By the 2nd fight he may have been shot, but that doesn't influence opinion on the 1st fight.

He is not as great as some on here would have you believe, but he IS great.

Great post Jaz!

The only things I don't agree with are:

I think Morales had a bit left in the 2nd fight. He was winning the fight until about the 6th round when Manny hit him with everything possible.

Also, the fights with Marquez, I think Manny edged the second fight with the knockdown. The first fight, I get a different result everytime I watch it. I've gotten a Manny win, a Marquez win, and a draw in the numerous times I've seen it.

To think Manny is overrated or not be so impressive with his accomplishments is the thoughts of a hater or one who is ignorant.

[OumaFan]

You can tear down any fighters resume if you have an agenda

Jaz I agree for the most part but you can't fight as well as Erik Morales did the first half of the second fight and be shot. Shot fighter + Manny Pacquaio equals a much quicker much more brutal beatdown than that. He wasn't in the prime of his career obviously but he wasn't shot.

[OumaFan]

Mayweather:

Corrales- weight drained when he lost to Floyd, and had to cheat to beat Castillo. Never elite.

Castillo-LOL, he lost twice to Javier Jauregui, who? He got lucky decisions versus Casamayor and Stevie Johnston and had to cheat to beat Corrales. Never elite.

Arturo Gatti-glorified club fighter with no defense who was past his prime.

Carlos Baldomir-LOL, one of the worst champions ever. Look at what a past his prime Vernon Forrest did to him. Only contribution to boxing is new scale on which to gauge other gigantic headed fighters.

Zab Judah-lost to one of the worst champions ever. Was always overrated.

Hatton-original poster already covered this.

Oscar-maybe a great fighter once but he almost always found a way to lose or get controversial decisions in the big ones. Plus he was past his prime.

Meh, I don't even believe this about Floyd but that's besides the point. Somebody probably agrees with it though

[JazMerkin]

I agree with the being able to tear down any fighter if you want to, although I'm sure people have posted up stuff like that with Floyd.

On the Morales thing, I felt he was close to shot when he got beat up by Raheem, & that the Pac rematch finished him. Maybe shot is the wrong word for those fights, but I would say it was Morales well past his prime.

With the Marquez fight I was just trying to point out that they were so close, & that even if you think JMM won both, it's not like Pac comes away with no credit.

Anyone who makes these kind of arguments against a fighter, whether it be for Manny, Floyd, Oscar or Hopkins, is almost always someone who is just a bona fide hater

[fan johnny]

Don't get me wrong he's a good fighter, but his accomplishments if you were to look at it objectively, which I know is a hard thing for many Pacman fans especially the Orientals, Pacific Islanders, and Fillipinos to do.

Let's look at his "accomplishments"
Hatton- Was never an elite fighter, and past his boxing prime
DeLaHoya-Weight drain and shot
Marquez- Most boxing experts and fans say he lost both fights despite the 4 knockdowns
Morales- Past his boxing prime because of all the wars Erik has been in. He wasn't past his physical prime, but his boxing prime for sure.
Barrera- A shot fighter and past his boxing prime even though he was only 29, been in too many wars.

So for the Fillipino fans and Pacman fans especially the Orientals, please be objective and analyze this. Pacman accomplishments aren't that great. Overrated yes especially in the days of ESPN and Nike.

And no I'm not Mexican or an Pacman "hater".

Every accomplishment in life is relative. You have to compare one experience to another similar experience in order to make a measurement.

Now look at the 'list of boxers' you composed to make an argument that Pacquiao's achievements are not really that great.

Every boxer in that list is not just a champion, but rather a hall of fame champion. You take exception to Hatton, "Elite" is the term you use to exemplify, Pacquiao defeated a great fighter. (that's an oxymoron)

If you look at the life of Manny Pacquiao and where he came from and I mean truly look at it, you might get the sense that his accomplishments are nothing short of truly incredible!

If you want to make an objective statement about Pacquiao's accomplishments, then stick to simple boxing facts. Otherwise your obvious bias shows up in thread title, and your prejudges shines.

[mofo2]

Don't get me wrong he's a good fighter, but his accomplishments if you were to look at it objectively, which I know is a hard thing for many Pacman fans especially the Orientals, Pacific Islanders, and Fillipinos to do.

Let's look at his "accomplishments"
Hatton- Was never an elite fighter, and past his boxing prime
DeLaHoya-Weight drain and shot
Marquez- Most boxing experts and fans say he lost both fights despite the 4 knockdowns
Morales- Past his boxing prime because of all the wars Erik has been in. He wasn't past his physical prime, but his boxing prime for sure.
Barrera- A shot fighter and past his boxing prime even though he was only 29, been in too many wars.

So for the Fillipino fans and Pacman fans especially the Orientals, please be objective and analyze this. Pacman accomplishments aren't that great. Overrated yes especially in the days of ESPN and Nike.

And no I'm not Mexican or an Pacman "hater".

I am by no means a fan of Manny but I appreciate the quality he has as a fighter and I think the nature of the Hatton and Oscar wins certainly have to count for something alone..You cannot dismiss those wins quite so easily,he has the potential to go on and become ATG if he is'nt there already.

[mad_takamura]

Don't get me wrong he's a good fighter, but his accomplishments if you were to look at it objectively, which I know is a hard thing for many Pacman fans especially the Orientals, Pacific Islanders, and Fillipinos to do.

Let's look at his "accomplishments"
Hatton- Was never an elite fighter, and past his boxing prime
DeLaHoya-Weight drain and shot
Marquez- Most boxing experts and fans say he lost both fights despite the 4 knockdowns
Morales- Past his boxing prime because of all the wars Erik has been in. He wasn't past his physical prime, but his boxing prime for sure.
Barrera- A shot fighter and past his boxing prime even though he was only 29, been in too many wars.

So for the Fillipino fans and Pacman fans especially the Orientals, please be objective and analyze this. Pacman accomplishments aren't that great. Overrated yes especially in the days of ESPN and Nike.

And no I'm not Mexican or an Pacman "hater".

where is sasakul, ledwaba, diaz, sanchez, and larios in the list? why aren't they in that list? though you can throw diaz off that list as a paper weight champ, he's still a champ, and pac beating ledwaba is already a great feat. lehlo is known as one of the best p4p back then too. sasakul, on the otherhand, was one of the best in the flyweight division. and both were in their primes when pac fought them and defeated them.
i don't believe larios was green when he fought pac though some have claimed it. he only went up 2 divisons when he and pac met, what's the difference in that? pac went up 8 divisions north from flyweight. and larios was already regarded as the best in the 122 pnds. divison back then, before losing to israel vasquez on his title defense.
pac had a draw with agapito, but that was a dirty fight. agapito was relying on his "tactics" because pac was too aggressive. had it continued pac would've floored him despite his injuries from sanchez's constant dirty fighting.
so you not putting this fighters on your list also makes your argument weaker. larios, ledwaba, sanchez, diaz, and sasakul were world champs: 3 losing to pac by tko, 1 by a wide ud, and 1 by a draw.
pac is great in terms of jumping from the flyweight up to the welterweight to face bigger opposition. who can't deny greatness on that? weather they are off their primes, can that negate the fact that pac is not elite at all?

[paddy448]

Don't get me wrong he's a good fighter, but his accomplishments if you were to look at it objectively, which I know is a hard thing for many Pacman fans especially the Orientals, Pacific Islanders, and Fillipinos to do.

Let's look at his "accomplishments"
Hatton- Was never an elite fighter, and past his boxing prime
DeLaHoya-Weight drain and shot
Marquez- Most boxing experts and fans say he lost both fights despite the 4 knockdowns
Morales- Past his boxing prime because of all the wars Erik has been in. He wasn't past his physical prime, but his boxing prime for sure.
Barrera- A shot fighter and past his boxing prime even though he was only 29, been in too many wars.

So for the Fillipino fans and Pacman fans especially the Orientals, please be objective and analyze this. Pacman accomplishments aren't that great. Overrated yes especially in the days of ESPN and Nike.

And no I'm not Mexican or an Pacman "hater".

i think his accomplishments are great, the fighters hes beat over the years show this, people have made excuses sayin his opponents where shot and stuff, i tell u what tho no body else in the world on them nights could of done what pacman did to those fighters