Pacquiao's Accomplishments aren't really that Great

[generalbulldog]

Don't get me wrong he's a good fighter, but his accomplishments if you were to look at it objectively, which I know is a hard thing for many Pacman fans especially the Orientals, Pacific Islanders, and Fillipinos to do.

Let's look at his "accomplishments"
Hatton- Was never an elite fighter, and past his boxing prime
DeLaHoya-Weight drain and shot
Marquez- Most boxing experts and fans say he lost both fights despite the 4 knockdowns
Morales- Past his boxing prime because of all the wars Erik has been in. He wasn't past his physical prime, but his boxing prime for sure.
Barrera- A shot fighter and past his boxing prime even though he was only 29, been in too many wars.

So for the Fillipino fans and Pacman fans especially the Orientals, please be objective and analyze this. Pacman accomplishments aren't that great. Overrated yes especially in the days of ESPN and Nike.

And no I'm not Mexican or an Pacman "hater".

[mnmc10]

DeLaHoya-Weight drain and shot

pac was the underdog, even i predicted that odlh will win. but pac got the balls to fight oskie and thats good enough.

Hatton- Was never an elite fighter, and past his boxing prime

comparing the manner of how pac disposed of hatton compared to pbf wheter hatton is a class b fighter is impressive!

Marquez- Most boxing experts and fans say he lost both fights despite the 4 knockdowns

most boxing experts agreed that the 4 kd was not scored properly by the judge. but imho jmm has a win over pac, and to me only jmm has the ability to beat pac.

Barrera- A shot fighter and past his boxing prime even though he was only 29, been in too many wars.

BS!!! ask missy!

Morales- Past his boxing prime because of all the wars Erik has been in. He wasn't past his physical prime, but his boxing prime for sure.

morales though in the decline proved that he is still a worthy opponent. and only pac KO'd morales granite chin.


you also have to consider the weight divisions pac went through. he is actually too small to be at his present weight division but he still manages. heck a 5'6" this midget is being pitted to mosley, cotto and the likes?!

[JazMerkin]

Don't get me wrong he's a good fighter, but his accomplishments if you were to look at it objectively, which I know is a hard thing for many Pacman fans especially the Orientals, Pacific Islanders, and Fillipinos to do.

Let's look at his "accomplishments"
Hatton- Was never an elite fighter, and past his boxing prime
DeLaHoya-Weight drain and shot
Marquez- Most boxing experts and fans say he lost both fights despite the 4 knockdowns
Morales- Past his boxing prime because of all the wars Erik has been in. He wasn't past his physical prime, but his boxing prime for sure.
Barrera- A shot fighter and past his boxing prime even though he was only 29, been in too many wars.

So for the Fillipino fans and Pacman fans especially the Orientals, please be objective and analyze this. Pacman accomplishments aren't that great. Overrated yes especially in the days of ESPN and Nike.

And no I'm not Mexican or an Pacman "hater".

Listen, any of the main posters on here can tell you, I'm far from a Pac-fan, but some of that is ridiculous.

ODLH was weight drained I agree, so I don't see that as a great win, but I was critical of that fight for BOTH fighters from the moment it was signed.

True, Hatton was not an elite fighter, but at the end of it, Pac still took on THE MAN at 140lbs & annihilated him, & that is a truly impressive feat. I will never criticize a fighter who takes on the real champion of the world in the division & dominates him. That was a win that marks him as a great regardless of whether Hatton was possibly finished after the PBF fight.

I also felt JMM won both fights, but that doesn't take away from the fact they were 2 great close fights, & the fact that Pac went to the wire with a man who is up there with the best of Mexican fighters says a lot about just how great he is.

Morales was shot for me in the 2nd & 3rd fights, however, it's important to note that the Pacquiao that lost in the first fight was nowhere near the fighter he would become. If you ask me who is the greater fighter it is Manny by a margin.

Lastly, Barrera, how anyone can complain about his 1st win over Barrera boggles my mind. MAB was in his prime (he still had enough to beat Morales a year later in a great fight) & was for many the P4P No.2, although he would be lower for me at that time, but nevertherless it remains an amazing win for a fighter not yet in his prime. By the 2nd fight he may have been shot, but that doesn't influence opinion on the 1st fight.

He is not as great as some on here would have you believe, but he IS great.

[C-Lo]

Don't get me wrong he's a good fighter, but his accomplishments if you were to look at it objectively, which I know is a hard thing for many Pacman fans especially the Orientals, Pacific Islanders, and Fillipinos to do.

Let's look at his "accomplishments"
Hatton- Was never an elite fighter, and past his boxing prime
DeLaHoya-Weight drain and shot
Marquez- Most boxing experts and fans say he lost both fights despite the 4 knockdowns
Morales- Past his boxing prime because of all the wars Erik has been in. He wasn't past his physical prime, but his boxing prime for sure.
Barrera- A shot fighter and past his boxing prime even though he was only 29, been in too many wars.

So for the Fillipino fans and Pacman fans especially the Orientals, please be objective and analyze this. Pacman accomplishments aren't that great. Overrated yes especially in the days of ESPN and Nike.

And no I'm not Mexican or an Pacman "hater".

Listen, any of the main posters on here can tell you, I'm far from a Pac-fan, but some of that is ridiculous.

ODLH was weight drained I agree, so I don't see that as a great win, but I was critical of that fight for BOTH fighters from the moment it was signed.

True, Hatton was not an elite fighter, but at the end of it, Pac still took on THE MAN at 140lbs & annihilated him, & that is a truly impressive feat. I will never criticize a fighter who takes on the real champion of the world in the division & dominates him. That was a win that marks him as a great regardless of whether Hatton was possibly finished after the PBF fight.

I also felt JMM won both fights, but that doesn't take away from the fact they were 2 great close fights, & the fact that Pac went to the wire with a man who is up there with the best of Mexican fighters says a lot about just how great he is.

Morales was shot for me in the 2nd & 3rd fights, however, it's important to note that the Pacquiao that lost in the first fight was nowhere near the fighter he would become. If you ask me who is the greater fighter it is Manny by a margin.

Lastly, Barrera, how anyone can complain about his 1st win over Barrera boggles my mind. MAB was in his prime (he still had enough to beat Morales a year later in a great fight) & was for many the P4P No.2, although he would be lower for me at that time, but nevertherless it remains an amazing win for a fighter not yet in his prime. By the 2nd fight he may have been shot, but that doesn't influence opinion on the 1st fight.

He is not as great as some on here would have you believe, but he IS great.

Great post Jaz!

The only things I don't agree with are:

I think Morales had a bit left in the 2nd fight. He was winning the fight until about the 6th round when Manny hit him with everything possible.

Also, the fights with Marquez, I think Manny edged the second fight with the knockdown. The first fight, I get a different result everytime I watch it. I've gotten a Manny win, a Marquez win, and a draw in the numerous times I've seen it.

To think Manny is overrated or not be so impressive with his accomplishments is the thoughts of a hater or one who is ignorant.

[OumaFan]

You can tear down any fighters resume if you have an agenda

Jaz I agree for the most part but you can't fight as well as Erik Morales did the first half of the second fight and be shot. Shot fighter + Manny Pacquaio equals a much quicker much more brutal beatdown than that. He wasn't in the prime of his career obviously but he wasn't shot.

[OumaFan]

Mayweather:

Corrales- weight drained when he lost to Floyd, and had to cheat to beat Castillo. Never elite.

Castillo-LOL, he lost twice to Javier Jauregui, who? He got lucky decisions versus Casamayor and Stevie Johnston and had to cheat to beat Corrales. Never elite.

Arturo Gatti-glorified club fighter with no defense who was past his prime.

Carlos Baldomir-LOL, one of the worst champions ever. Look at what a past his prime Vernon Forrest did to him. Only contribution to boxing is new scale on which to gauge other gigantic headed fighters.

Zab Judah-lost to one of the worst champions ever. Was always overrated.

Hatton-original poster already covered this.

Oscar-maybe a great fighter once but he almost always found a way to lose or get controversial decisions in the big ones. Plus he was past his prime.

Meh, I don't even believe this about Floyd but that's besides the point. Somebody probably agrees with it though

[JazMerkin]

I agree with the being able to tear down any fighter if you want to, although I'm sure people have posted up stuff like that with Floyd.

On the Morales thing, I felt he was close to shot when he got beat up by Raheem, & that the Pac rematch finished him. Maybe shot is the wrong word for those fights, but I would say it was Morales well past his prime.

With the Marquez fight I was just trying to point out that they were so close, & that even if you think JMM won both, it's not like Pac comes away with no credit.

Anyone who makes these kind of arguments against a fighter, whether it be for Manny, Floyd, Oscar or Hopkins, is almost always someone who is just a bona fide hater

[OumaFan]

I admit mine were a bit extreme

I actually rate Castillo much higher than most. He does have some early losses that are held against him too much IMO by some, not so dissimilar to Pacquaio.

I do think Baldomir was a very poor titlist. And Zab is not much. And Gatti was never anywhere near elite. Maybe I believe more of this than I thought Actually some of Floyd's earlier stuff is probably a bit underrated.

[JazMerkin]

As a Floyd fan, I obviously rate him very highly, however, the Gatti win is basically his 'David Diaz' & there's no denying that, it was not a great win.

I've always rated Castillo highly, he's one of those Mexicans who decided to straight into the pros & bar the losses that have come as he has fought past his prime, I think he is a HoFer, not a first ballot, but I think he's worthy. His record would also look different if he didn't cut so easy early in his career.

Corrales I think is a great, although Pac, MAB & Morales come close, I don't think there's another fighter who's been in so many exciting fights, & the weight-drained thing was crap, he weighed in like 10lbs more than Floyd on fight night.

Baldomir was a poor titlist, but the fact was he was the Proper Welterweight champion & whilst he's no great, I'm not sure he is a million miles much worse than some of the guys who've been P4P worthy in recent years (well Margarito & Hatton), but still he is no more than a C-level fighter

Agreed on Zab, he never failed to falter when in the super-fights & the Mayweather fight was no exception although I never get the 'Zab was winning the first 6 rounds' stuff I hear, usually from new posters or those with a Floyd-hate-fetish.

His best stuff was always at 130 though, his wins over Hernandez, Chavez & Manfredy are possibly his finest wins for me.

Anyway, like you say, you can do it for any fighter if you have the agenda, although I find it funny that people seem to love doing it with Floyd & Manny who are the 2 finest fighters of this generation. If they're crap, what does that say about boxing as a sport??

[generalbulldog]

Okay let's look at this again.

Oscar- that was not as even half as impressive as When Sugar Shane took on a prime Oscar who was just 27 with only 1 loss and not weight drain, Sugar Shane mind you also jump 2 weight classes to fight him!

Morales- Was way past his prime in all 3 fights. Too many wars had sapped his body's strength and punch resistance. He wasn't past his physical prime but past his boxing prime. Being in tough fights like with Barrera will and can take years off a fighters prime!

Hatton- Never elite in my mind, just good and dominated an division that was really weak at the time. A prime Kostya Tszyu beats the crap out of Hatton and really seriously hurts the Pacman.

Barrera- Was clearly shot in this fight, it was one of those fights where a fighter just ages right in front of you. No way a 25 or 26 year old MAB gets embarrassed like that. MAB had been in too many wars up to that point and was shot. It's like an 23 year old Oscar beating up on a 34 year old Chavez.

Marquez- Robbed in both fights. Just Like Sweetpea Whittaker getting robbed by Chavez! Almost every boxing expert had Marquez winning by 2 or 3 points in the 2nd fight, and at least by 1 point in the first fight! One of the worst decisions in boxing.

Stop being blind folks, his accomplishments have serious "WTF" moments in them. But since he fights an exciting style he draws praises. His boxing skills are downright atrocious and primitive, like a smaller version of Tyson. And just like Tyson when you outbox and outhink the 1 dimensional brawler, you beat them!

[OumaFan]

Morales was way past his prime in all three fights, geezus

Strange you don't mention when Pacquiao destroyed a fairly prime MAB.

Saying he was "robbed" in both Marquez fights is cringe worthy.

Congratulations, that was a truly horrific post

Not sure why I'm feeding the troll.

[XaduBoxer]

PAC's lineal titles and multi-division titles are solid proofs of his great accomplishment in boxing. He is the only boxer who holds 4 lineal titles and the 2nd boxer to get titles in 6 divisions behind Dela Hoya. PAC still has a big chance of getting his 5th lineal title and 7th division title in the welterweight division (147 lbs.) since he is still in his prime. PAC not only defeating the former champions in the division but beating them badly or by knocking them out. For me it's a very impressive accomplishment.

PAC's lineal titles and division titles:

*RING Light Welterweight (140 lbs.) - LINEAL TITLE, KO'ed Ricky Hatton cold in the 2nd.

*WBC Lightweight (135 lbs.) - KO'ed David Diaz in the 9th.

*RING Super Featherweight (130 lbs.) - LINEAL TITLE, Split decision win over Juan Manuel Marquez.

*RING Featherweight (126 lbs.) - LINEAL TITLE, KO'ed Marco Antonio Barrera in the 11th.

*IBF Super Bantamweight (122 lbs.) - KO'ed Lehlohonolo Ledwaba in the 6th.

*WBC Flyweight (112 lbs.) - LINEAL TITLE, KO'ed Chatchai Sasakul in the 8th.

[generalbulldog]

Morales was way past his prime in all three fights, geezus

Strange you don't mention when Pacquiao destroyed a fairly prime MAB.

Saying he was "robbed" in both Marquez fights is cringe worthy.

Congratulations, that was a truly horrific post

Not sure why I'm feeding the troll.

I did mention the first MAB fight in my first post. But at 29 years old MAB is a spent man in their first fight. A lot of wars he's been in at that time. A boxer's prime and a boxer's physical prime are 2 different things. A boxer at 28 years old can be viewed as past his prime if he's been in too many wars that sapped his body. MAB was 29 years old and in his physical prime, but past his boxing prime. Get it?

Do you watch basketball? Do you know who Kobe Bryant is? This is an example. Kobe is in his physical prime at 30 but since he's played in the NBA for 13 years since he's a teenageer he has a lot of wear and tear on his body especially his knees, he's consider somewhat past his basketball prime even though at 30 he's consider to be in his physical prime.

[OumaFan]

He's the first or second best player in the league. Bad example. I can't be reading this stuff, I must be losing my mind.

MAB looked just fine after the Pacquaio fight against Ayala, Morales, Peden, Juarez especially the second time. Pacquaio went up against a very good version of MAB and destroyed him. And leading up to the Pacquaio fight he had looked fantastic. This is stupid.

This is a good windup. If its not a windup and you really believe what you're posting....

[Spicoli]

I think his Destruction of Hatton,considered the man to beat in his division at the time,merits nothing but acknowledgment.That was just brutal!

The Oscar fight.Said it prior that it was just a farce fight.Cash grab by both frankly.Once we knew Oscars weight at less than 147 combined with the thrash marks a speedy and naturally smaller Forbes left on him.It was bad news for him.Pac did what you should do to a past it and drained fighter...beat the crap out of him.

Barrera by no means was a 'shot' fighter going into the 1st fight.Have to respect Mannys destruction in that one.Pac was in his destructive newness.Pacquiao took that win.A shot fighter the first time around would not have been able to return 4 years and six wins later to this time adjust & not be dusted even sooner in a rematch.Aww shite...am I on 'that other' board I take it all back lol

Now the Morales and Marquez fights.Thats a different story.Erik was shot to bits in the 3rd and on the other side in 2nd.And had done nothing afterwords save for arguably going even up (some say beat him) with Mannys chosen belt warmer David 'Reyes taste tester' Diaz in his last fight