Joe frazier (rip) would be the smallest opponent wlad....

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

Joe Frazier is smaller than Chris Byrd and Eddie Chambers in all aspect's. His average prime weight was 205lbs, he had a reach of 73″ and was barely 5'11"! At 215lbs he looked badly out of shape:



Even the 216lb, former CW Jean Marc Mormeck wore the weight well:



How would he fare against the Klitschko's? Disregard (for now) the fact that he would be unable to fight today on medical grounds due to being blind in his left eye throughout his entire career and give me your thoughts on a Klitschko vs. Frazier showdown!

I know size is not neccessarily an indicator of outcome but with margin's like that they have to factor in surely! Especially considering Joe unlike i.e 215lb Chris Byrd wasn't the slickest or most agile of fighters!

Personally i think George Foreman put Frazier there where he objectively belongs. When Joe Frazier met the only heavyweight comparable to Klitschko i.e Foreman (And even then foreman is a much smaller HW than wlad!) he was violently schooled!

His reputation as a puncher and for punch-resistance is based on fighting cruiserweights and he would be a very good cruiserweight if he was around today. However, it's not merely the fact that he lost to George Foreman that is significant but the margin and manner of the defeat. Thanks to his incompetent cornermen and the equally useless referee, Joe Frazier was lucky to leave Jamaica alive in 1973. Given his slow starting and the regularity with which he took punches, he'd be in desperate trouble against any decent sized, big punching genuine heavyweight of today (See Bonavena and Bugner fights! Not a good sign...)

I am a frazier fan and he will be missed, He had the heart to keep fighting and never give up no matter what but in truth Klitschko vs. Ali's arch nemesis would be a missmatch..

[beenKOed]

Joe Frazier is smaller than Chris Byrd and Eddie Chambers in all aspect's. His average prime weight was 205lbs, he had a reach of 73″ and was barely 5'11"! At 215lbs he looked badly out of shape:



Even the 216lb, former CW Jean Marc Mormeck wore the weight well:



How would he fare against the Klitschko's? Disregard (for now) the fact that he would be unable to fight today on medical grounds due to being blind in his left eye throughout his entire career and give me your thoughts on a Klitschko vs. Frazier showdown!

I know size is not neccessarily an indicator of outcome but with margin's like that they have to factor in surely! Especially considering Joe unlike i.e 215lb Chris Byrd wasn't the slickest or most agile of fighters!

Personally i think George Foreman put Frazier there where he objectively belongs. When Joe Frazier met the only heavyweight comparable to Klitschko i.e Foreman (And even then foreman is a much smaller HW than wlad!) he was violently schooled!

His reputation as a puncher and for punch-resistance is based on fighting cruiserweights and he would be a very good cruiserweight if he was around today. However, it's not merely the fact that he lost to George Foreman that is significant but the margin and manner of the defeat. Thanks to his incompetent cornermen and the equally useless referee, Joe Frazier was lucky to leave Jamaica alive in 1973. Given his slow starting and the regularity with which he took punches, he'd be in desperate trouble against any decent sized, big punching genuine heavyweight of today (See Bonavena and Bugner fights! Not a good sign...)

Has ever faced! That is very telling...I am a frazier fan and he will be missed, He had the heart to keep fighting and never give up no matter what but in truth Klitschko vs. Ali's arch nemesis would be a missmatch..

Hey! If you want a discussion you have to leave something for the other person to say. You just killed this thread with your opening post. All I can say is I agree.

[Spicoli]

The difference between a similiar size Byrd and Chambers is they might as well have been throwing hamsters at Wlad compared to Frazier. Likewise Foremans mentality vs Frazier, regardless of hearing him always say "my knees were shaking" bit...was hell bent on destroying Joe and fought zero and nothing like Wlad in first career.

Style wise Wlad has all the tools to keep Frazier on a stick for win but I wonder if he would be content there and let a forever tenacious and coiled dynamite Frazier linger and avoid Fraziers danger zone. To me Wlad would have to get him out and punch much more off jab. 205 or 502 I don't doubt for a minute Frazier could hurt Wlad but I say Wlad beats him.

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

Probably the only fighter 'size wise' comparable to frazier is mormeck, And even then mormeck has a naturally bigger/more athletic frame than frazier had!

Chambers and byrd are slightly bigger men than frazier.

[ElTerribleMorales]

Probably the only fighter 'size wise' comparable to frazier is mormeck, And even then mormeck has a naturally bigger/more athletic frame than frazier had!

Chambers and byrd are slightly bigger men than frazier.

in Frazier's defense, neither Klitschko has the one punch power of Foreman

not saying they don't bang, but neither is as big of a puncher as Big George, also Frazier had more power than Mormeck, better head movement, stamina, and the tightest compact left hook in HW history, Wlad should be the favorite, but if Haye was given a chance by more than a few there is no way in hell that you would be able to count Joe Frazier out of pulling off the win

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

in Frazier's defense, neither Klitschko has the one punch power of Foreman

Mate seriously....come on!

George Foreman was INDEED one of the hardest punchers and his KO abilities are very good. He probably is a harder puncher in a 'P4P' sense....but to suggest he is more powerful than either 245lb brother is just silly! Prime foreman was considered the SHW of his day! Today he would an be average sized HW no bigger tha haye or adamek!

His power looked more impressive because he was fighting mainly smaller men....i mean he couldn't even KO china chinned morrison! Foreman and Wlad had 3 common opponents: Schulz, Martin and Young:

Opponent-Wladimir Klitschko's result-George Foreman's result:

·Axel Schulz KO8 MD12 (Robbery)
·Everett Martin KO8 UD10
·Mark Young KO2 (RTD2) TKO7

This shows a clear power superiority of Wladimir. This was the comeback foreman of course but his power had not diminishished.

Adittionally note that 13 people survived fights with Foreman. But only 3 survived against Wlad.

Prime George Foreman (median weight 217 lbs) would be Wladimir Klitschko's bottom-10 LIGHTEST opponent EVER and Vitali Klitschko's bottom-3 LIGHTEST opponent!

Probably the easiest way to convince good-old-time nostalgists of the superiority of Klitschko (compared to Foreman) is to mention that George Foreman has scored only 3 KOs in world championship fights 200×2, whereas Wladimir Klitschko has scored approximately 5 times as many.

Thankyou.

[Peter Plys 44]

Probably the only fighter 'size wise' comparable to frazier is mormeck, And even then mormeck has a naturally bigger/more athletic frame than frazier had!

Chambers and byrd are slightly bigger men than frazier.

in Frazier's defense, neither Klitschko has the one punch power of Foreman

not saying they don't bang, but neither is as big of a puncher as Big George, also Frazier had more power than Mormeck, better head movement, stamina, and the tightest compact left hook in HW history, Wlad should be the favorite, but if Haye was given a chance by more than a few there is no way in hell that you would be able to count Joe Frazier out of pulling off the win

All empiric evidence shows that especially Wlad has a much harder one punch power than Big George - but of course Foreman is from a past time and therefore better.... - everything has developed since the 60s except boxing.... :-D

Wlad vs. JF would be a mismatch as most matches with today's HWs vs. yesterdays HWs. In 30-40 years people will also claim that if their present HWs fought the K2 then they would lose. Of course K2 would not be able to compete with future HW greats. One could be great in his own era but one would also be non-competitive going 4-5 sports generations forward. Better nutrition, genetic, tactics, training regimes etc. etc. - the evolution race will never stop even though many posters think that boxing is static.

[imp]

Its pretty obvious he wants to ignore that fact that this is the weakest heavyweight era of all time thats why he never brings it up.

Hindsight is a great thing.
Jack johnson is another oldie that gets destroyed by todays heavyweights as he only fought 20-30 rds back then.

Nathan cleverly is another fighter in the best lhw divison of all time and he schools a pre clinton woods roy jones.

Anyway, i cant talk long im fighting in germany next week as im over 200lbs and 6foot im a legitimate contender to the klitskos.

[El Kabong]

Its pretty obvious he wants to ignore that fact that this is the weakest heavyweight era of all time thats why he never brings it up.

Hindsight is a great thing.
Jack johnson is another oldie that gets destroyed by todays heavyweights as he only fought 20-30 rds back then.

Nathan cleverly is another fighter in the best lhw divison of all time and he schools a pre clinton woods roy jones.

Anyway, i cant talk long im fighting in germany next week as im over 200lbs and 6foot im a legitimate contender to the klitskos.

Have they moved on to fighting retards then I guess that's what happens when you dominate a division so thoroughly.

[imp]

Its pretty obvious he wants to ignore that fact that this is the weakest heavyweight era of all time thats why he never brings it up.

Hindsight is a great thing.
Jack johnson is another oldie that gets destroyed by todays heavyweights as he only fought 20-30 rds back then.

Nathan cleverly is another fighter in the best lhw divison of all time and he schools a pre clinton woods roy jones.

Anyway, i cant talk long im fighting in germany next week as im over 200lbs and 6foot im a legitimate contender to the klitskos.

Have they moved on to fighting retards then I guess that's what happens when you dominate a division so thoroughly.

Lol. Muppet. Stick to the script.

Vlad dominates this divison. The same divison audley is in. If audley beats price then vlad will fight him.

[El Kabong]

Lol. Muppet. Stick to the script.

Vlad dominates this divison. The same divison audley is in. If audley beats price then vlad will fight him.

Wlad can't help it if Audley wants to get his ass kicked repeatedly. It's not like Lennox Lewis' or Mike Tyson's divisions were devoid of bums. Mike Tyson fought Bruce Seldon....FOR A TITLE!!! That's how sorry the division was back then

[piye]

It's always size used as the reason that the brothers would be competitive.

[AdamGB]

I don't know why Philosopher can't seem to get over the fact that sports and exercise science has evolved over the last 40 years...

Of course athletes are bigger and better conditioned nowdays compared to guts several decades ago.

When judging these guys in a purely physical sense you can only do so relevant to their contemporeries.

Imagine a 70s george foreman's genetics and natural talent coupled with the training regimes and the nutrition and pharmacuticals available to the klitschkos? He'd massacre Wlad and likely vitali too...

[El Kabong]

I don't know why Philosopher can't seem to get over the fact that sports and exercise science has evolved over the last 40 years...

Of course athletes are bigger and better conditioned nowdays compared to guts several decades ago.

When judging these guys in a purely physical sense you can only do so relevant to their contemporeries.

Imagine a 70s george foreman's genetics and natural talent coupled with the training regimes and the nutrition and pharmacuticals available to the klitschkos? He'd massacre Wlad and likely vitali too...

And you're leaving out Healthcare which is also important for growing big and strong and healthy.

As for your other point "imagine"....well that's the deal isn't it you have to imagine something like that happening and if EVRYONE grew up to be a giant sure the Klitschko's wouldn't win much but given the division they have they'd be hard pressed to do any better than they are doing. They win, they don't lose rounds, and they win by stoppage.

[ICB]

Just want to point out the Axel Schulz vs George Foreman fight was no robbery, it was a very close fight that could of gone either way. George Foreman won a majority of the early rounds with Axel Schulz coming on late. I could see it 7-5 for either guy or a draw, people often claim close fights as robbery.

A clear robbery is Whitaker/Ramirez 1 Lewis vs Holyfield 1 where you can only make a claim that Ramirez, Holyfield, only won 4 rounds at the very most.