What makes an All Time Great?

[Silkeyjoe]

What do people see as an all time great fighter? How can you decide one from another? Does an all time great have to be somewhere in the top 30, 50 or 100 P4P of all time rankings? There has been a lot of discussion recently saying whether guys like Froch, Cotto and Martinez are all time greats, they are certainly future hall of famers but do they make fighters all time greats lists?

[Master]

To be an ATG you need to beat at least another HOF fighter, be in a great top level fight, showing great heart, consistent champion over a period of time.

[beenKOed]

To be an ATG you need to beat at least another HOF fighter, be in a great top level fight, showing great heart, consistent champion over a period of time.

Everything that Master said plus you have to be a consistent winner, but you don't have to be undefeated.
You should have a lengthy career and have fought at a consistent high level for the majority of your career.
You have to have been a champion and more than once helps, as does being a champion in a different division or divisions.
Most important, in my opinion, is you have to be seen as fighting and beating the top/best fighters in your division or divisions consistently.

I know a lot of us have individual criteria for what an ATG should or should not be and I'd like to hear them.
What about the fighters you are certain would have been ATGs but their careers were cut short for one reason or another?

[brocktonblockbust]

YOu dont have to be undefeated but I think there should be a win % . If you have 10 losses you probably cannot be an ATG, unless you have 140 wins. But if you are 57-10, there is NO WAY you can be an ATG. I think it goes first and foremost by losses. Marciano was an ATG. Foreman with only 4 losses in 70 fights---ATG. Joe Louis with only 2 losses---ATG. Ali only 5 losses----ATG. Frazier only 5 losses----ATG. Larry Holmes---ATG all the way---only a few losses---18 straight title defenses. No doubt about Larry. Mike Tyson----not sure. Not sure about Tyson.

An ATG is NOT a Buster Douglas who has 1 night of pure glory and then fades from all stardom. Leon Spinks is NOT, even though he beat the great Ali. Gene Tunney 's only claims to fame are his 2 wins over Dempsey. Tunney cannot be an ATG.

Number of losses, longevity, title defenses. That is it for me.

[IamInuit]

YOu dont have to be undefeated but I think there should be a win % . If you have 10 losses you probably cannot be an ATG, unless you have 140 wins. But if you are 57-10, there is NO WAY you can be an ATG. I think it goes first and foremost by losses. Marciano was an ATG. Foreman with only 4 losses in 70 fights---ATG. Joe Louis with only 2 losses---ATG. Ali only 5 losses----ATG. Frazier only 5 losses----ATG. Larry Holmes---ATG all the way---only a few losses---18 straight title defenses. No doubt about Larry. Mike Tyson----not sure. Not sure about Tyson.

An ATG is NOT a Buster Douglas who has 1 night of pure glory and then fades from all stardom. Leon Spinks is NOT, even though he beat the great Ali. Gene Tunney 's only claims to fame are his 2 wins over Dempsey. Tunney cannot be an ATG.

Number of losses, longevity, title defenses. That is it for me.

Is Fritzie Zivic an atg iyo? How about Carpentier?

Btw Tunney beat Harry Greb 4 times. Jack would not even fight the guy.

[palmerq]

being popular with the fans seems to be the biggest thing these days......

[mikeeod]

Historical accomplishments, more than anything else, qualify someone as an ATG. Sugar Ray Robinson beating numerous HOF fighters, being the greatest welter ever, and winning lineal MW titles multiple times. Henry Armstrong holding 3 of 8 available world championships at the same time and beating HOF fighters while doing it. Ray Leonard winning super fight after super fight and overcoming the odds to beat Hagler (although I feel ray lost that one). Joe Louis defending his title 23 times and cleaning out the division. Ali being the first to win the HW championship 3 times, overcome the odds to beat foreman, engage in the fight of the century and thrills in Manila, and beat the best heavyweights over 3 generations of the Holden era of heavies.

[beenKOed]

YOu dont have to be undefeated but I think there should be a win % . If you have 10 losses you probably cannot be an ATG, unless you have 140 wins. But if you are 57-10, there is NO WAY you can be an ATG. I think it goes first and foremost by losses. Marciano was an ATG. Foreman with only 4 losses in 70 fights---ATG. Joe Louis with only 2 losses---ATG. Ali only 5 losses----ATG. Frazier only 5 losses----ATG. Larry Holmes---ATG all the way---only a few losses---18 straight title defenses. No doubt about Larry. Mike Tyson----not sure. Not sure about Tyson.

An ATG is NOT a Buster Douglas who has 1 night of pure glory and then fades from all stardom. Leon Spinks is NOT, even though he beat the great Ali. Gene Tunney 's only claims to fame are his 2 wins over Dempsey. Tunney cannot be an ATG.

Number of losses, longevity, title defenses. That is it for me.

Where does Lennox Lewis stand?

[Master]

YOu dont have to be undefeated but I think there should be a win % . If you have 10 losses you probably cannot be an ATG, unless you have 140 wins. But if you are 57-10, there is NO WAY you can be an ATG. I think it goes first and foremost by losses. Marciano was an ATG. Foreman with only 4 losses in 70 fights---ATG. Joe Louis with only 2 losses---ATG. Ali only 5 losses----ATG. Frazier only 5 losses----ATG. Larry Holmes---ATG all the way---only a few losses---18 straight title defenses. No doubt about Larry. Mike Tyson----not sure. Not sure about Tyson.

An ATG is NOT a Buster Douglas who has 1 night of pure glory and then fades from all stardom. Leon Spinks is NOT, even though he beat the great Ali. Gene Tunney 's only claims to fame are his 2 wins over Dempsey. Tunney cannot be an ATG.

Number of losses, longevity, title defenses. That is it for me.

Where does Lennox Lewis stand?

On his legs because he is a legend.

[beenKOed]

YOu dont have to be undefeated but I think there should be a win % . If you have 10 losses you probably cannot be an ATG, unless you have 140 wins. But if you are 57-10, there is NO WAY you can be an ATG. I think it goes first and foremost by losses. Marciano was an ATG. Foreman with only 4 losses in 70 fights---ATG. Joe Louis with only 2 losses---ATG. Ali only 5 losses----ATG. Frazier only 5 losses----ATG. Larry Holmes---ATG all the way---only a few losses---18 straight title defenses. No doubt about Larry. Mike Tyson----not sure. Not sure about Tyson.

An ATG is NOT a Buster Douglas who has 1 night of pure glory and then fades from all stardom. Leon Spinks is NOT, even though he beat the great Ali. Gene Tunney 's only claims to fame are his 2 wins over Dempsey. Tunney cannot be an ATG.

Number of losses, longevity, title defenses. That is it for me.

I don't think you can call Mike Tyson an ATG either, but if there was an award for bringing pure excitement and revitalizing boxing interest, Mike Tyson would have to be at the top. The man was fun to watch!!

[Beanflicker]

I don't see why Tyson isn't an ATG. Youngest ever HW champion, routinely shows up on top 10 HW of all time lists.