88 yr old woman jailed 6 mos. for denying Holocaust ***WTF***

[brocktonblockbust]

Germany is a coward for not allowing freedom of speech. She was not calling for any violence. She was not inciting anything unless you want to stretch your imagination and try to connect dots which cannot pragmatically b-connected. As horrid as that genocide was and every other genocide including the ones that happened to my own people I as an Armenian would never call for the jailing of a Turk who denied the genocide.

[El Kabong]

Well she has said an appalling thing no doubt....however she should have the freedom to say it.

[brocktonblockbust]

Well she has said an appalling thing no doubt....however she should have the freedom to say it.

Precisely although I would not go so far as to say a polling because if she personally believes that the sky is falling or she personally believes that Genghis Khan came from Canada I would not call that appalling but I would call that absolutely stunningly mind-bogglingly out to lunch zoned-out ignorant or just willfully trying to bake people and to enrage people. But I would not use the word appalling here. The genocide was appalling the Holocaust was appalling but a woman claiming that it did not occur it's not quite reaching the adjective of appalling although I could use it as an adverb and say that is appallingly ignorant now that combination of adverb and adjective I could certainly accept and certainly fills the bill and explains This Woman's perspective. However she has absolutely every right to say that she does not think the Holocaust ever occurred in fact she did not even go that far she merely stated that the gas Chambers in Auschwitz or not operational. I absolutely support her free speech and she should not be jailed for such a thing that is beyond appalling if anything is appalling jailing someone for having that opinion is appalling

[brocktonblockbust]

Once we try to make laws about the content of speech it becomes pure thought control and thought police and mind control and fascism.

I cannot give a public speech saying that I am going to murder so and so. I cannot name the individual by name and address and say I'm going to their house tonight to kill them. I do not support that kind of free speech. I also would not support giving a public speech in which someone is yelling that an entire Race For example the Jews or the Armenians or the Chinese should be annihilated should be killed should be wiped off the face of the Earth. I do not support that kind of free speech either.

@Beanz

But giving a public speech saying that in your opinion you believe that Muslims should not be living in a western country for example or giving a public speech in which you think that the Holocaust never happened........ I absolutely support that Free Speech because those people are not calling for any action or any violence they are only stating facts that they believe Muslims should not leave in a western country or they believe that the Holocaust never happened.

There is a huge difference in calling for violence or killing or murder or genocide and in merely saying that you do not believe a genocide occurred at a certain point in history or in merely saying that you do not believe it is a great idea to have Muslims and a high-tech Western White Society for example. People have become so cowardly and paranoid that they are equating those two things as being just as hideous as each other when one is out right calling for violence which can be connecting the dots and saying that it is inciting violence while the other one is merely saying that so-and-so culture or race or religion is not a good mix or match assimilation wise for example in a certain country. I will always protect a person's free space to be able to say that. The people who cannot see the difference between a comment like that and a comment like an outright call for murder or genocide are being deliberately disingenuous and without realizing it perhaps are aiding and abetting the suppression of free speech and that is a very dangerous road.

I believe Europeans and to a certain extent of Americans on the left have tried to say that the two are the same while they are completely different from each other.

[brocktonblockbust]

No I have not used any insulting language here towards anybody on the left around the liberal side of the so I can or on the opposing side of this argument so let us see who goes first with the personal insults here because I have discussed this in a very matter-of-fact way

[Beanz]

Why should she have the same freedom as Americans? She is in Germany and as usual you are trying to misrepresent the truth and tell other countries what should and should not be lawful. This is not just some innocent 88 yr old woman, This is a woman who with her Nazi husband ran a centre promoting Holocaust denial and trying to build a coalition with far right holocaust deniers from across Germany and places like Switzerland. This is her fifth warning and is not just a case of her having a personal opinion, but her disseminating that rhetoric into a movement in order to gain power and influence.

Any sane individual would have to see Germany as a special case given their history, and while I don't think it should be illegal, I am not about to tell Germany what their laws should be, particularly seeing what has just happened in Austria.


Why are you both in such a rush to defend cunts like this?


ah yes..apparently it was the Jews fault and people seig heiling with swastika flags are not necessarily Nazis

[brocktonblockbust]

You are openly admitting that you do not think it should be illegal and yet you do not want to raise your voice to tell Germany what to do. You are a hypocrite because in another thread you have just said that when you see something that is wrong you should speak up and challenge it. Here you are using the excuse that we cannot tell another country what to do. HA!!! And yet in another thread you're saying if you hear a conversation that is wrong or bigoted you should speak up and tell people what to do. You can't have it both ways man.

[Beanz]

You are openly admitting that you do not think it should be illegal and yet you do not want to raise your voice to tell Germany what to do. You are a hypocrite because in another thread you have just said that when you see something that is wrong you should speak up and challenge it. Here you are using the excuse that we cannot tell another country what to do. HA!!! And yet in another thread you're saying if you hear a conversation that is wrong or bigoted you should speak up and tell people what to do. You can't have it both ways man.

That is just you lying again. You have a track record of it. I don't think it should be illegal, but I am not going to tell Germany what their laws should be. There is absolutely no hypocrisy in speaking out against racism at all. I would do it in GErnay also. What you are doing is speaking out in support of it. Holocaust denial is another form of racism. It is a way of minimizing the suffering of Jews and painting them out to be devious liars, which you yourself have said on this forum. It is no surprise you would want me to just keep my mouth shut so that you could continue spreading such hateful rubbish. You are not challenging something that is wrong, you are trying to defend holocaust deniers and paint them as little innocent old ladies, you are acting like a fucking snake, not a defender of people's rights at all.

[El Kabong]

This kind of sums up my views on speech....people are free to talk and if some talk and say stupid shit then at least people know "Hey, that's some stupid shit over there" but I guess I expect too much of people to allow for that.

I believe the Holocaust happened as it has been taught to me AND I've studied history I enjoy studying history and it doesn't hurt to have known people who were actually there and actually liberated camps.


However, the dumb woman is not hurting anyone with her dumb fucking comments, why waste the time, money, and effort to lock her up? Will it teach the old dumb lady a lesson? I doubt it. Maybe she's mental?

[brocktonblockbust]

You are openly admitting that you do not think it should be illegal and yet you do not want to raise your voice to tell Germany what to do. You are a hypocrite because in another thread you have just said that when you see something that is wrong you should speak up and challenge it. Here you are using the excuse that we cannot tell another country what to do. HA!!! And yet in another thread you're saying if you hear a conversation that is wrong or bigoted you should speak up and tell people what to do. You can't have it both ways man.

That is just you lying again. You have a track record of it. I don't think it should be illegal, but I am not going to tell Germany what their laws should be. There is absolutely no hypocrisy in speaking out against racism at all. I would do it in GErnay also. What you are doing is speaking out in support of it. Holocaust denial is another form of racism. It is a way of minimizing the suffering of Jews and painting them out to be devious liars, which you yourself have said on this forum. It is no surprise you would want me to just keep my mouth shut so that you could continue spreading such hateful rubbish. You are not challenging something that is wrong, you are trying to defend holocaust deniers and paint them as little innocent old ladies, you are acting like a fucking snake, not a defender of people's rights at all.

When have you ever kept your mouth shut? And when did I say I ever wanted you to keep your mouth shut? You're into this thing I noticed over the past few years that you think people are suppressing your speech you have often said that people want to squash or silence opposing viewpoints. Do you realize how many times you have imagined that people are trying to silence you? I cannot speak for a lyle but I have never tried to silence you. I could not physically silence you if I tried. Do you realize that makes no sense at all? I have never said please stop posting or please shut up or please close your mouth. I don't remember anyone ever tell you that. And yet you go on and on for the past 3 or 4 years about people trying to silence opposing points of view. How can anyone silence an opposing point of view? The only way that anyone could do that and I would greatly fear such a thing is through legislation. So actually I am glad to see that you are agreeing with me. You do not want to be silenced. You should not be silenced. Nobody should be silenced. That is what I have been saying all along. So I am glad to see that you agree with me