Wanna make an Ass of yourself and say Klıts can fıght lıke thıs?

[imp]

imp....Lennox Lewis isn't walking through that door, neither is Ali or Frazier or Foreman. This heavyweight division right here right now is OWNED by Wladimir Klitschko and it's his until he decides it's time to retire so how about you come on to the 2010's and stop holding on your past glories huh? Wlad is the man right now and he's been the man since Lewis retired and that's a longer reign than Lennox Lewis ever had, longer than Mike Tyson, longer than Evander Holyfield, longer than Ali, longer than Frazier or Foreman, longer than Liston, longer than Johnson, longer than Dempsey, longer than Marciano, longer than Patterson, longer than everyone but Larry Holmes (who will soon be passed) and the GREATEST of all time Joe Louis (who IMO will ALWAYS be the greatest of All-Time).


Recognize greatness, that's all I'm saying.

Give Wlad his due and don't talk about all the other heavyweights, they had their time in the spotlight, now it's Wlad's time. And before you get all bent out of shape, Lennox Lewis was a great champion, nobody is doubting that but he's not fighting anymore so unless he wants to make a comeback it's pointless to bring him up in regards to Wladimir.

Kabong...I completely respect that this era is dominated by Wlad.
I mentioned that on many occasions.
I am just defending lennox lewis as certain people keep bringing up the fact that IF the vitali fight wasnt stopped or IF there was rematch.
(IF my auntie had balls she"ll be my uncle!)

So Wlad is the longest current heavyweight champion in the world..ok..he deserves kudos for that.

But let me ask another question, would you agree that this era is somewhat weaker than perhaps the past eras of previous great fighters?

And if so, (now we all have hindsight) is it fair to jump great fighters from the past and discredit them (holmes, etc) against current ones who have greater physical advantages but have had it alot easier?

I was the fastest runner in my primary school until i went secondary.
The competition changed.

[imp]

I still cant understand your fascination with Wlad when you clearly understand other legendary fighters like jones etc and put valid points across as to how they have achieved greatness.

It seems very lazy to just say that its because there non american that everyone dismisses them.

I have no affliation with no country, race or breed its the skill of the fighter i respect.

In a way i wish there was better competition for Wlad so we can see how good he really is (but then again, with respect he lacks the killer instinct to finish off some of this batch)

[El Kabong]

In hindsight maybe Wlad's era looks weaker, maybe it looks better we can't judge it for what it MIGHT look like because we don't know (and this is scary) if there will be better heavyweights in the years to come.


The deal with Lewis is, he got out when he knew it was his time to go. He wasn't going to wait around for Vitali to heal up. The FANS 100% of them wanted to see a rematch because let's be honest that was one hell of a show they put on, both of them!

[El Kabong]

In a way i wish there was better competition for Wlad so we can see how good he really is (but then again, with respect he lacks the killer instinct to finish off some of this batch)

Of course, I totally agree with the first part and at a certain point in his career you are right about the killer instinct but that goes back to Purrity and Brewster where he gassed out. If you look at the Wach fight Wlad threw the kitchen sink at the guy and he didn't budge....can't knock them all out. I wish he would fight guys the way he fought Ray Mercer or Ray Austin and vs Wach he did open up earlier, maybe he's finding that comfort zone. All fighters are different that way.

[TitoFan]

I still cant understand your fascination with Wlad when you clearly understand other legendary fighters like jones etc and put valid points across as to how they have achieved greatness.

It seems very lazy to just say that its because there non american that everyone dismisses them.

I have no affliation with no country, race or breed its the skill of the fighter i respect.

In a way i wish there was better competition for Wlad so we can see how good he really is (but then again, with respect he lacks the killer instinct to finish off some of this batch)

What I've always said. You can say Wlad is the best and totally dominates this era and you'd be correct. You can also state that the division is weaker than at other times, and you'd also be correct. Finally, you can state that Wlad has never been truly tested... and you'd have a pretty good point. I don't believe in this "all-or-nothing" mentality when it comes to Wlad. You can give him his props... and you can point out some criticisms. It's the logical, non-fan way to look at Wlad.

[El Kabong]

What I've always said. You can say Wlad is the best and totally dominates this era and you'd be correct. You can also state that the division is weaker than at other times, and you'd also be correct. Finally, you can state that Wlad has never been truly tested... and you'd have a pretty good point. I don't believe in this "all-or-nothing" mentality when it comes to Wlad. You can give him his props... and you can point out some criticisms. It's the logical, non-fan way to look at Wlad.

Wlad has been knocked down and gotten up to win a fight. Wlad has also been cut and needed to end a fight and done so. What the fuck kind of "test" do you want the guy to pass? Give me SPECIFICS because if you're going to judge Wlad by it then I'm going to be certain you're going to judge everyone else by it too.

[ninjaspy3]

I like Wlad and think he has greatly improved.

What I do not like is this recent trend of having Wlad fight people who have NO business in the ring with him. For example, Wach. Sure Wach was undefeated but look at who he fought. Almost no one worth mention. Very likely Wach could never beat Wlad no matter what BUT what they did with him is like throwing him in the deep end of the pool. Its madness.

Someone needs to endure fighters are properly groomed. Newcomers need badly to mix it up with the more expierenced fighters before even thinking about a Klitschko. Even Haye was guilty of this and of course he sank in the deep end of the pool.

This whole deal with top contenders avoiding each other in hopes of jumping to fight a Klitschko must stop because all these fighters are getting is a paycheck but slim to none chance of winning.

[El Kabong]

That's the managers and promoters issue right there. I could plan out a track for any heavyweight out there to get them a shot at Wlad or Vitali (as could most of you I imagine) but the thing is the fights aren't getting made. I told people David Haye wasn't ready and nobody believed me, they said "He's going to retire at 30" they said he "was already world class" and look at where that got him.

You've got to prepare a fighter for the size, style, power, speed, and skill of a champion like Wlad or Vitali. It's difficult but not impossible, guys like Povetkin should have had this done already but they were too busy pussyfooting around with tomato cans to mess with them.


I don't blame the Klitschko's for who they fight, who really wants to fight them? They give opportunities to damn near anyone, very few jump at the chance to fight them.

[TitoFan]

What I've always said. You can say Wlad is the best and totally dominates this era and you'd be correct. You can also state that the division is weaker than at other times, and you'd also be correct. Finally, you can state that Wlad has never been truly tested... and you'd have a pretty good point. I don't believe in this "all-or-nothing" mentality when it comes to Wlad. You can give him his props... and you can point out some criticisms. It's the logical, non-fan way to look at Wlad.

Wlad has been knocked down and gotten up to win a fight. Wlad has also been cut and needed to end a fight and done so. What the fuck kind of "test" do you want the guy to pass? Give me SPECIFICS because if you're going to judge Wlad by it then I'm going to be certain you're going to judge everyone else by it too.

When Lyle? Once before the KTFO-loss triad, and then against Sam Peter??
The Sam Peter we all agree was grossly overrated and has since quietly slinked into anonymity?

How about YOU tell ME when Wlad has been fully tested by a worthy fighter?
YOU tell ME about his "Fraziers", his "Nortons" (as in Holmes-Norton).

Frankly, I'm tired of giving Wlad props that fall just a bit short of knighthood, only to have you crap all over the arguments.
I'm hardly the only one here that doesn't burn incense at the foot of Wlad's golden statue.
But I'm the only one you take issue with.
So you know what? FUCK OFF!

If it's either all or nothing with you... I'll pick nothing.
Wlad is a fukking bum.
He hasn't had an opponent yet that hasn't soiled his pants while walking to the ring.
Most of his opponents have more body fat than Shamu the killer whale.
His fights are about as exciting as an IRS audit.
He has the chin of a drugged, teenage girl.

Happy now?

[ninjaspy3]

That's the managers and promoters issue right there. I could plan out a track for any heavyweight out there to get them a shot at Wlad or Vitali (as could most of you I imagine) but the thing is the fights aren't getting made. I told people David Haye wasn't ready and nobody believed me, they said "He's going to retire at 30" they said he "was already world class" and look at where that got him.

You've got to prepare a fighter for the size, style, power, speed, and skill of a champion like Wlad or Vitali. It's difficult but not impossible, guys like Povetkin should have had this done already but they were too busy pussyfooting around with tomato cans to mess with them.


I don't blame the Klitschko's for who they fight, who really wants to fight them? They give opportunities to damn near anyone, very few jump at the chance to fight them.

Yep, I pretty much agree with all you said. Indeed its the managers but also seems to be the culture of the heavyweight scene lately.

In theory, someone with all the right tools could jump into the ring with a Klitschko and have a chance but that is very rare and takes a very special fighter. But none of these guys is on that level and they need to get their heads out of the clouds. They must put in the work and climb the ladder. But the managers of the top 10 heavyweights need to stop being so selfish and let their fighters mix it up with these young contenders.

Experience is a valuable asset and the Klitschko brothers have racked up loads of experience.

[El Kabong]

When Lyle? Once before the KTFO-loss triad, and then against Sam Peter??
The Sam Peter we all agree was grossly overrated and has since quietly slinked into anonymity?

How about YOU tell ME when Wlad has been fully tested by a worthy fighter?
YOU tell ME about his "Fraziers", his "Nortons" (as in Holmes-Norton).

Frankly, I'm tired of giving Wlad props that fall just a bit short of knighthood, only to have you crap all over the arguments.
I'm hardly the only one here that doesn't burn incense at the foot of Wlad's golden statue.
But I'm the only one you take issue with.
So you know what? FUCK OFF!

If it's either all or nothing with you... I'll pick nothing.
Wlad is a fukking bum.
He hasn't had an opponent yet that hasn't soiled his pants while walking to the ring.
Most of his opponents have more body fat than Shamu the killer whale.
His fights are about as exciting as an IRS audit.
He has the chin of a drugged, teenage girl.

Happy now?

#1 Sam Peter being "overrated" is erroneous. Did Wlad or didn't Wlad get up from the knockdowns to win that fight? Don't play revisionist historian don't say that you knew all along Sam Peter was a tad overhyped because it doesn't fucking matter. Wlad got knocked down, he got back up and he won.....test passed

#2 You've not defined what the "test" is. Is it going the distance vs a durable fighter? Is it winning after a cut? Is it dealing with adversity like multiple knockdowns? If the question is has a fighter ever still been dangerous in the 12 round after fighting Wlad tooth and nail it hasn't happened because they've either been beaten into a shell or ran the entire fight trying to land 1 good punch. But as soon as you define this "test" you want Wlad to pass I'll let you know if he's done it, but don't be so purposely ambiguous and vague about it. Do I want to see Wlad have a foil to his style, someone that will truly challenge him for his title? Fuck yes I do, but if that fighter is out there Wlad hasn't come across him yet. It would be great for boxing if someone would stand and fight and not either lie down or just be a heavybag, but I can't see anyone out there like that. I heard Liakhovich gave Wlad great fights in sparring but that fight never happened and now it's too late as Sergei is washed up. A rematch vs Sanders would have been nice, never happened. Wlad has done everything he can personally do to be a great fighter, he's avenged a defeat, he's gotten up from the canvas to win, he won after being cut, the argument your pressing all has to do with the opponent and not Wlad and that's the point where I get a bit frustrated. What is Wlad supposed to do? Train half assed? Fight southpaw or with a hand behind his back?

#3 It's not "all or nothing" you @TitoFan are refusing to define your own terms and THAT irritates me you may as well say "I don't like him because....just because" you make arguments like a 4 year old.

Don't get so heated

[TitoFan]

When Lyle? Once before the KTFO-loss triad, and then against Sam Peter??
The Sam Peter we all agree was grossly overrated and has since quietly slinked into anonymity?

How about YOU tell ME when Wlad has been fully tested by a worthy fighter?
YOU tell ME about his "Fraziers", his "Nortons" (as in Holmes-Norton).

Frankly, I'm tired of giving Wlad props that fall just a bit short of knighthood, only to have you crap all over the arguments.
I'm hardly the only one here that doesn't burn incense at the foot of Wlad's golden statue.
But I'm the only one you take issue with.
So you know what? FUCK OFF!

If it's either all or nothing with you... I'll pick nothing.
Wlad is a fukking bum.
He hasn't had an opponent yet that hasn't soiled his pants while walking to the ring.
Most of his opponents have more body fat than Shamu the killer whale.
His fights are about as exciting as an IRS audit.
He has the chin of a drugged, teenage girl.

Happy now?

#1 Sam Peter being "overrated" is erroneous. Did Wlad or didn't Wlad get up from the knockdowns to win that fight? Don't play revisionist historian don't say that you knew all along Sam Peter was a tad overhyped because it doesn't fucking matter. Wlad got knocked down, he got back up and he won.....test passed

#2 You've not defined what the "test" is. Is it going the distance vs a durable fighter? Is it winning after a cut? Is it dealing with adversity like multiple knockdowns? If the question is has a fighter ever still been dangerous in the 12 round after fighting Wlad tooth and nail it hasn't happened because they've either been beaten into a shell or ran the entire fight trying to land 1 good punch. But as soon as you define this "test" you want Wlad to pass I'll let you know if he's done it, but don't be so purposely ambiguous and vague about it. Do I want to see Wlad have a foil to his style, someone that will truly challenge him for his title? Fuck yes I do, but if that fighter is out there Wlad hasn't come across him yet. It would be great for boxing if someone would stand and fight and not either lie down or just be a heavybag, but I can't see anyone out there like that. I heard Liakhovich gave Wlad great fights in sparring but that fight never happened and now it's too late as Sergei is washed up. A rematch vs Sanders would have been nice, never happened. Wlad has done everything he can personally do to be a great fighter, he's avenged a defeat, he's gotten up from the canvas to win, he won after being cut, the argument your pressing all has to do with the opponent and not Wlad and that's the point where I get a bit frustrated. What is Wlad supposed to do? Train half assed? Fight southpaw or with a hand behind his back?

#3 It's not "all or nothing" you @TitoFan are refusing to define your own terms and THAT irritates me you may as well say "I don't like him because....just because" you make arguments like a 4 year old.

Don't get so heated

test 1 (tst)
n.

1. A fight where the opponent actually shows up to attempt to win the fight, not survive 12 rounds without being separated from his senses.

2. A fight where said opponent is of credible quality, including punching power, boxing skills, reasonable chin, and a will to win at all costs.

3. A fight where that same opponent will throw caution to the wind when the situation warrants it, and puts winning the fight ahead of not getting punched in return.

4. A fight which, after it's over, a majority of boxing fans are saying something to the effect of: "Damn, wasn't that a good fight?!?"


That defined enough for you??
As I said, there's blind Wlad fans, such as yourself.
There's Wlad haters, who hate Wlad just "because".
And there's those of us who can see Wlad through clear glasses, not rose-colored ones.

Four-year olds lack objectivity. They cannot list the pros and cons of anything.
Feel free to continue fucking off.

[El Kabong]

Then since you're not 4 you can tell that those things you listed are more about Wlad's opponents and not about what he has done. Wlad can't beat the guy up and then allow the guy to come back on him....see how this is more of a critique of the division than of Wlad himself?

[TitoFan]

Then since you're not 4 you can tell that those things you listed are more about Wlad's opponents and not about what he has done. Wlad can't beat the guy up and then allow the guy to come back on him....see how this is more of a critique of the division than of Wlad himself?

Yes Lyle... but whether they're critiques of Wlad or the division itself... the end result is the same. Wlad has never truly been tested. Not to the extent that other HW greats of other eras. (See how this works?) Now... this could happen for one of two different reasons. One: Wlad is so vastly superior to any HW past or present, that the lack of competition is reflected in boring, one-sided fights. Or Two: The division is so trashy, that Wlad has no competition whatsoever. And without taking anything away from Wlad, I think it's more a function of the latter than the former. Not WLAD'S FAULT, mind you. But still a reality.

[Gandalf]

Wlad is a fair fighter in an appalling division. He has only improved as his opposition has tailed off even more. His choices of opponent are now frankly getting quite tiresome. It makes Calzaghe's run after Eubank look aweinspiring. It's easy enough to make a dozen defences if the majority are really more than a little bit shit. In other divisions people go after everyone come what may and don't have draconian contracts saying 'fight my brother, rematch with me, 2 more options on your future fights'. That is fucking cowardly and insulting. It's a surprise anyone gets in the ring with Wlad on that basis. He presents himself as a good guy, but offers slave contracts. He's a con man. He also never fought James Toney who beat Peter first time out far more convincingly than Wlad could. Wlad fighting Rahman immediately after Rahman was fucked up by Toney? Get out of here with that cherry picking. Toney was better than sodding Peter and Rahman. Ridiculous.

Wlad is fair fighter, but he is also a con artist and manipulator and will thus never go down as anything special. Watch him find some unknown who is 17-0 next. Yawn.