I can't remember seeing a better fighter than prime Floyd Mayweather Jr

[Beanflicker]

Roy Jones Jr. is another guy I rank above Floyd ... as a boxer I personally watched. Floyd's defense is supposed to be what makes him special, right? Well RJJ is the ONLY guy to have never been hit for a single round in the CompuBox era. Vinnie Paz didn't land a single shot in Roy in the 6th round of their bout. So much for Floyd bragging about his CompuBox stats. Roy arguably didn't lose a single round in his prime. He was the most dominant champion I've ever seen, along with Tyson.

Listen I'm not going to say a bad word about RJJ because I think he was one of the greatest talents boxing has ever seen.

But if you want to be fair and shit on Floyd's opponents... you're talking about Roy pitching a shut out at 168 against a blown up 140lber who was coming back from a car accident where he BROKE HIS NECK.

[Beanflicker]

As I said earlier SRL would beat him and I believe Hearn’s and Tito would beat him too.

SRL? Ok. Hearns? Fair enough. But Tito? Tito got completely outfoxed by Oscar and got one of the biggest gifts in boxing history. He's never showed any ability to deal with a guy with slick defense, quick hands and the ability to keep him from planting his feet and nullifying the left hook.

I just can't see Tito winning (save for an Oscar-like robbery).

[Beanflicker]

Beating Virgil Hill, Glen Kelly, Antonio Tarver, Julio Cesar Gonzalez, and Montell Griffin twice at 168+ is better than what Floyd did over 135.

Virgil Hill - When Roy beat him he was coming off a loss to The Tiger. Great win, great performance, but fighting a guy coming off a big loss.

Glen Kelly - Glen Kelly?!? GLEN KELLY?? He amassed a good record fighting nobodies, then got starched when he stepped up. His career when no where. You'd put him up with Cotto, undefeated Hatton, Mosely, ect? What??

Antonio Tarver - Looked AWFUL in that "win", a lot of people felt Tarver beat him up and deserved the nod.

JSG - Solid fighter, only pro a few years at the time I think.

Montell Griffin - Solid fighter, very unorthodox, but gave Roy hell in the first fight and was far from great.

[Master]

As I said earlier SRL would beat him and I believe Hearn’s and Tito would beat him too.

SRL? Ok. Hearns? Fair enough. But Tito? Tito got completely outfoxed by Oscar and got one of the biggest gifts in boxing history. He's never showed any ability to deal with a guy with slick defense, quick hands and the ability to keep him from planting his feet and nullifying the left hook.

I just can't see Tito winning (save for an Oscar-like robbery).

Tito would win so would a peak Oscar at welterweight.

[Beanflicker]

Tito would win so would a peak Oscar at welterweight.

The Oscar who fought Tito would be an intriguing fight for sure

[Master]

Tito would win so would a peak Oscar at welterweight.

The Oscar who fought Tito would be an intriguing fight for sure

Agreed he was at his peak, he would have kept that jab coming throughout the fight and he would not have to worry about Floyd's power.

[TysonBomb]

Roy Jones Jr. is another guy I rank above Floyd ... as a boxer I personally watched. Floyd's defense is supposed to be what makes him special, right? Well RJJ is the ONLY guy to have never been hit for a single round in the CompuBox era. Vinnie Paz didn't land a single shot in Roy in the 6th round of their bout. So much for Floyd bragging about his CompuBox stats. Roy arguably didn't lose a single round in his prime. He was the most dominant champion I've ever seen, along with Tyson.

Listen I'm not going to say a bad word about RJJ because I think he was one of the greatest talents boxing has ever seen.

But if you want to be fair and shit on Floyd's opponents... you're talking about Roy pitching a shut out at 168 against a blown up 140lber who was coming back from a car accident where he BROKE HIS NECK.

Relax. I was only putting that fact out there because Floyd fans and Floyd himself always brag about his CompuBox numbers and defense. I don't rate the Paz win high at all.

Beating Virgil Hill, Glen Kelly, Antonio Tarver, Julio Cesar Gonzalez, and Montell Griffin twice at 168+ is better than what Floyd did over 135.

Virgil Hill - When Roy beat him he was coming off a loss to The Tiger. Great win, great performance, but fighting a guy coming off a big loss.

Glen Kelly - Glen Kelly?!? GLEN KELLY?? He amassed a good record fighting nobodies, then got starched when he stepped up. His career when no where. You'd put him up with Cotto, undefeated Hatton, Mosely, ect? What??

Antonio Tarver - Looked AWFUL in that "win", a lot of people felt Tarver beat him up and deserved the nod.

JSG - Solid fighter, only pro a few years at the time I think.

Montell Griffin - Solid fighter, very unorthodox, but gave Roy hell in the first fight and was far from great.

Virgil Hill lost by decision to DM but was KOed by Roy in a much more dominant performance. It was a good win despite him coming off a lose. And that was his only KO loss ever. Better than Mayweathers Cotto victory which is his best over 135.

As for Glen Kelly that was a good win, stop trying to diminish it. He was an undefeated prospect and outweighed Roy by a significant amount on fight night.

Roy was coming down in weight to fight Tarver and was never the same after the Ruiz fight.

JSG beat the life out of the "lineal" champ DM after he got thrashed by Roy. A very good fighter. Better than an old Mosley, hype job Hatton, and probably better than a shot Cotto.

It doesn't matter that much anyway since RJJ has a better resume overall than Floyd. He became undisputed LHW champ while Floyd retired and went on vacation, avoiding big names at welterweight.

His resume up to 168 is better than Floyd's up to 135. Toney, B Hop >>> Corrales, Castillo.

If we made a poll here to see who people thought was "better" and put up RJJ against Tyson against Floyd I'm sure that Floyd would get the least amount of votes. Floyd's reign has been eclipsed by Pacquiao. RJJ and Tyson were more impressive fighters.

[Beanflicker]

But you're saying that those wins were better than Floyd's wins. Not only are you putting Glen Kelly in the same sentence as guys like Ricky Hatton, Shane Mosley and Miguel Cotto, you're insinuating that he was a BETTER win than those guys, which is possibly the craziest thing I've ever heard on this forum.

I've defended Roy's opposition for almost 10 years, and even I never had the audacity to argue that Glen Kelly was a meaningful win. The guy was never even a world champ.

I don't see how Mike Tyson belongs in the conversation. Roy Jones went 15 years into his career before he truely lost a fight. Floyd is into his 17th year without a loss, and regardless of what his haters think, he's fought some incredible fighters.

Mike Tyson had 5 or 6 great years then went to jail and turned into a freakshow. He doesn't belong in a p4p greatness discussion with guys like Roy Jones and Floyd Mayweather.

[Beanflicker]

Toney, B Hop >>> Corrales, Castillo.

Not gonna argue that. He dominated an ATG in Toney like no one else has before and beat Hopkins with one good hand, maybe a bit before his prime, but still an absolute killer.

When I started this thread, I said I wasn't going to argue about who fought better opposition because, whether we want to admit it or not, it's all subjective. You can pick apart ANYBODY'S opposition. People will see what they want to see in your opposition.

My statement is this: there has NEVER been a guy who has displayed the combination of athletic ability and ring genius that Floyd has displayed. Roy was a genius in the ring as well, but I feel (like Ali) he relied a lot on his insane reflexes and foot speed to avoid punches, which is fine.

Floyd (like a prime James Toney) had the ability to eat guys up on the inside and the outside and displayed superior boxing skill to Roy Jones.

[TysonBomb]

I agree with that statement ... except for the "NEVER" part.

Floyd has talent and skills ... he's pretty much a boxing prodigy but there have been guys in the past who have shown just as much.

You can knock Tyson all you want, but you can't deny that he was also supremely talented and skilled. His athleticism was off the charts and his skill level was on par with anyone. No one at HW was ever had that combo of skill, talent, and athleticism. RJJ had the insane athleticism but I agree that his skills weren't as refined as Floyd's. He would do stuff that was technically wrong but come away with it because of his talent. And now that his physical gifts are leaving him, he's getting KOed. He never even developed a jab in his entire career.

Guys like Pernell Whitaker and Meldrick Taylor were also like Floyd. Same kind of skill and talent ... Floyd is not that special dude. He does have a great combination of athleticism and skill, but its not like its never been seen before.

[Bobthepen]

I agree with that statement ... except for the "NEVER" part.

Floyd has talent and skills ... he's pretty much a boxing prodigy but there have been guys in the past who have shown just as much.

You can knock Tyson all you want, but you can't deny that he was also supremely talented and skilled. His athleticism was off the charts and his skill level was on par with anyone. No one at HW was ever had that combo of skill, talent, and athleticism. RJJ had the insane athleticism but I agree that his skills weren't as refined as Floyd's. He would do stuff that was technically wrong but come away with it because of his talent. And now that his physical gifts are leaving him, he's getting KOed. He never even developed a jab in his entire career.

Guys like Pernell Whitaker and Meldrick Taylor were also like Floyd. Same kind of skill and talent ... Floyd is not that special dude. He does have a great combination of athleticism and skill, but its not like its never been seen before.

I actually agree with a large part of what you say, apart from the other guys showing as much as Floyd.
Floyd has physical gifts and technique that are rare, but not unheard of. I agree that Roy and Tyson (both of whom I'm a big fan of) had as impressive physical gifts.
What Floyd has in addition, which is far rarer is a combination of an outstanding ring IQ and a will to win tempered by absolute professionalism.
Roy and Tyson achieved notable victories fighting like Roy and Tyson. When their physical attributes failed, they failed.
Floyd adapts, and turns his foe's strengths against them, and more importantly is evolving his game as his body ages, which is when the other two fell down.

[imp]

I agree with that statement ... except for the "NEVER" part.

Floyd has talent and skills ... he's pretty much a boxing prodigy but there have been guys in the past who have shown just as much.

You can knock Tyson all you want, but you can't deny that he was also supremely talented and skilled. His athleticism was off the charts and his skill level was on par with anyone. No one at HW was ever had that combo of skill, talent, and athleticism. RJJ had the insane athleticism but I agree that his skills weren't as refined as Floyd's. He would do stuff that was technically wrong but come away with it because of his talent. And now that his physical gifts are leaving him, he's getting KOed. He never even developed a jab in his entire career.

Guys like Pernell Whitaker and Meldrick Taylor were also like Floyd. Same kind of skill and talent ... Floyd is not that special dude. He does have a great combination of athleticism and skill, but its not like its never been seen before.

I actually agree with a large part of what you say, apart from the other guys showing as much as Floyd.
Floyd has physical gifts and technique that are rare, but not unheard of. I agree that Roy and Tyson (both of whom I'm a big fan of) had as impressive physical gifts.
What Floyd has in addition, which is far rarer is a combination of an outstanding ring IQ and a will to win tempered by absolute professionalism.
Roy and Tyson achieved notable victories fighting like Roy and Tyson. When their physical attributes failed, they failed.
Floyd adapts, and turns his foe's strengths against them, and more importantly is evolving his game as his body ages, which is when the other two fell down.

Good point.

Adapt is such a great word.

So many great fighters have simply fought for too long and then their skills start to fade and they just cant adapt.

Floyd is getting older but he is si much smarter than every other fighter today.

He still has that incredible defense to fall back on where roy jones had no real defense and tysons peekaboo style started to wane as his got older.

I am a big fan of roy and tyson but floyd has so many tricks up his sleeve he will never make boxing retire him.

For a fighter to leave the massive wealth of bob arum and achieve what he has done in boxing without taking any punishment at 36 years old is pretty special.

[TysonBomb]

Tyson abandoned his peak a boo style right after Rooney ... as soon as the first Bruno fight.

I will say that Floyd's skill at adapting and circumventing his opponents strength is good though.

Roy and Tyson were superior athletes but Floyd probably has better ring IQ. Floyd doesn't have that same aura about him as Tyson nor is he as dominant as Roy ... both of these guys looked untouchable in their primes. I don't get that from Floyd ... Castillo showed how to beat him and he barely got by Oscar. He also hasn't fought the best fighters at their best. Tyson's victims just looked to survive and Roy's opponents tried not to be embarrassed.

[Tam Seddon]

Floyd is the man, there's still some great fights for him to be in, I can't wait to see him fight twice this year.

[Bobthepen]

Tyson abandoned his peak a boo style right after Rooney ... as soon as the first Bruno fight.

I will say that Floyd's skill at adapting and circumventing his opponents strength is good though.

Roy and Tyson were superior athletes but Floyd probably has better ring IQ. Floyd doesn't have that same aura about him as Tyson nor is he as dominant as Roy ... both of these guys looked untouchable in their primes. I don't get that from Floyd ... Castillo showed how to beat him and he barely got by Oscar. He also hasn't fought the best fighters at their best. Tyson's victims just looked to survive and Roy's opponents tried not to be embarrassed.

I was a huge Oscar fan, and wanted him to beat Floyd badly, so much so that when I first saw the fight I had it very close.
Having watched it recently with a much greater appreciation of Floyd and my love of Oscar fading I can honstly say I thought Floyd won it easily. I couldn't give more than a couple of rounds to De La Hoya.