Dissecting Ali hate

[TitoFan]

No mi hermano mio, tu sabes que te quiero mucho pero yo tambien necessito estar NO acuerdo con estos puntos: YOURE putting the focus in the wrong place. The focus is NOT on what the evil whites did to the blacks. We all know that. Anybody who denies that is blind as a bat. The focus is on how and why a black man who championed himself as a spokesperson and do-gooder for black rights would go and defame/insult/hurt the feelings of fellow blacks during that very disturbing racist time of the 60s. That is the focus. Joe Frazier didnt need any EXTRA BULLSHIT from people more than what he was already getting, etc... To say Ali didnt do anywhere NEAR the damage that whites did is a totally separate argument. Of course ali didnt do anywhere near the damage that racist whites did. But who the hell was ever claiming THAT? That is a IMHO silly point to make. The focus here is on Ali and what HE did, not comparing what Ali did to what whites did.!!

As for my Rocco Marcheggiano, I would rout for him everytime he would have fought Ali. And I still say his awkward style would have proven far more challenging to Muhammad than it looks at first glance.

Here's the thing, my good friend. Ali insulted certain black opponents, most notably Frazier. But he also insulted white opponents as well. And we're talking about boxing opponents. Out of the ring Ali championed his right to equality as a human being. Didn't he have that famous quote about the Viet Cong never calling him "nigger" when all the controversy regarding his refusal to be drafted? People may not have liked him very much.... but he had a very good point. Haters never really sat down to listen to him when he addressed groups away from the glare of the boxing ring. He talked to college kids, and other groups of people, and he had some very useful things to say. I'd venture to say Ali championed the cause of the black people a hell of a lot more than the Fraziers and Foremans ever did. How? He stood up and was loud about racism and prejudice.

[brocktonblockbust]

No mi hermano mio, tu sabes que te quiero mucho pero yo tambien necessito estar NO acuerdo con estos puntos: YOURE putting the focus in the wrong place. The focus is NOT on what the evil whites did to the blacks. We all know that. Anybody who denies that is blind as a bat. The focus is on how and why a black man who championed himself as a spokesperson and do-gooder for black rights would go and defame/insult/hurt the feelings of fellow blacks during that very disturbing racist time of the 60s. That is the focus. Joe Frazier didnt need any EXTRA BULLSHIT from people more than what he was already getting, etc... To say Ali didnt do anywhere NEAR the damage that whites did is a totally separate argument. Of course ali didnt do anywhere near the damage that racist whites did. But who the hell was ever claiming THAT? That is a IMHO silly point to make. The focus here is on Ali and what HE did, not comparing what Ali did to what whites did.!!

As for my Rocco Marcheggiano, I would rout for him everytime he would have fought Ali. And I still say his awkward style would have proven far more challenging to Muhammad than it looks at first glance.

Here's the thing, my good friend. Ali insulted certain black opponents, most notably Frazier. But he also insulted white opponents as well. And we're talking about boxing opponents. Out of the ring Ali championed his right to equality as a human being. Didn't he have that famous quote about the Viet Cong never calling him "nigger" when all the controversy regarding his refusal to be drafted? People may not have liked him very much.... but he had a very good point. Haters never really sat down to listen to him when he addressed groups away from the glare of the boxing ring. He talked to college kids, and other groups of people, and he had some very useful things to say. I'd venture to say Ali championed the cause of the black people a hell of a lot more than the Fraziers and Foremans ever did. How? He stood up and was loud about racism and prejudice.

1. he should have kept his insults to the white boxers only, it wouldnt have effected poor Joe and Floyd and Ernie Terrell and all his brothers he should have been using his fame to comfort and support them, not tear them down..

2. Wish he would have championed Frazier's right to be treated like a decent human being.

3. Who cares about him saying the vietcong never called him "nigger"? What does that have to do with him calling Floyd and Ernie and Joe and George and archie all sorts of horrible hurtful things?

4. Yes on that 4th point I agree with you---he did champion black rights more than Frazier or foreman or Floyd Patterson or ernie Terrell. But he HURT Frazier and Frazier's family irreparably. Frazier actually sent a message to ali that his daughter and sons were being seriously bullied in school in South Philly because all the black kids were echoing ali's words that Joe was an Uncle Tom. They actually had to change schools because of that.

he may have been vocal in front of the microphone (ego, maybe, adoring the spotlight/the limelight? pretty face syndrome?), but on the personal level, where it truly counts, he tore Joe Frazier and others down incessantly for years. Doesnt cut the mustard if you think about it. Frazier gave Ali money when Ali was down and out, so in a way Joe did something for his fellow black brother right there.

Know how Ali thanked him?

[Bill Paxtom]

No mi hermano mio, tu sabes que te quiero mucho pero yo tambien necessito estar NO acuerdo con estos puntos: YOURE putting the focus in the wrong place. The focus is NOT on what the evil whites did to the blacks. We all know that. Anybody who denies that is blind as a bat. The focus is on how and why a black man who championed himself as a spokesperson and do-gooder for black rights would go and defame/insult/hurt the feelings of fellow blacks during that very disturbing racist time of the 60s. That is the focus. Joe Frazier didnt need any EXTRA BULLSHIT from people more than what he was already getting, etc... To say Ali didnt do anywhere NEAR the damage that whites did is a totally separate argument. Of course ali didnt do anywhere near the damage that racist whites did. But who the hell was ever claiming THAT? That is a IMHO silly point to make. The focus here is on Ali and what HE did, not comparing what Ali did to what whites did.!!

As for my Rocco Marcheggiano, I would rout for him everytime he would have fought Ali. And I still say his awkward style would have proven far more challenging to Muhammad than it looks at first glance.

Here's the thing, my good friend. Ali insulted certain black opponents, most notably Frazier. But he also insulted white opponents as well. And we're talking about boxing opponents. Out of the ring Ali championed his right to equality as a human being. Didn't he have that famous quote about the Viet Cong never calling him "nigger" when all the controversy regarding his refusal to be drafted? People may not have liked him very much.... but he had a very good point. Haters never really sat down to listen to him when he addressed groups away from the glare of the boxing ring. He talked to college kids, and other groups of people, and he had some very useful things to say. I'd venture to say Ali championed the cause of the black people a hell of a lot more than the Fraziers and Foremans ever did. How? He stood up and was loud about racism and prejudice.

Correction

I knew quite a few NVA in Vietnam that called Cassius Clay a "NIGGER COWARD'.

Cassius Clay just happened to never hear them say it.

That would be kind of hard when you're hiding behind '3' White Lawyers in luxurious Miami Beach.

El Facto Mundo !!

[TitoFan]

1. he should have kept his insults to the white boxers only, it wouldnt have effected poor Joe and Floyd and Ernie Terrell and all his brothers he should have been using his fame to comfort and support them, not tear them down..

Oh... poor widdle Joe and Floyd and Ernie. Big, mean Cassius hurt their widdle feelings.
C'mon bro...... seriously?
This is boxing, not kindergarten.
Is Ali the only boxer to ever insult his opponents? Hardly.
Also, if Ali had insulted white boxers only, he'd have come off as a bigot.
But he was an equal opportunity "insulter".


2. Wish he would have championed Frazier's right to be treated like a decent human being.

3. Who cares about him saying the vietcong never called him "nigger"? What does that have to do with him calling Floyd and Ernie and Joe and George and archie all sorts of horrible hurtful things?

That was part of his objecting to the war and his draft. His reasoning... why should he travel overseas to kill Viet Cong when they never called him "nigger" like the white man did back at home?

4. Yes on that 4th point I agree with you---he did champion black rights more than Frazier or foreman or Floyd Patterson or ernie Terrell. But he HURT Frazier and Frazier's family irreparably. Frazier actually sent a message to ali that his daughter and sons were being seriously bullied in school in South Philly because all the black kids were echoing ali's words that Joe was an Uncle Tom. They actually had to change schools because of that.

he may have been vocal in front of the microphone (ego, maybe, adoring the spotlight/the limelight? pretty face syndrome?), but on the personal level, where it truly counts, he tore Joe Frazier and others down incessantly for years. Doesnt cut the mustard if you think about it. Frazier gave Ali money when Ali was down and out, so in a way Joe did something for his fellow black brother right there.

Know how Ali thanked him?

Ali was very resentful and aware of how black people were being treated in America during those times. If you were a star athlete or celebrity, you got special treatment. But other than that, it was 100% prejudice. No doubt Ali himself was subjected to prejudice in certain pockets of the U.S. Maybe the story about being refused service at a diner was fabricated. But it's certainly not a reach to think he very well may have faced prejudice in many occasions in his life. He was just more outspoken about it than other famous black people.

Maybe he was resentful of guys like Joe Frazier, who in his eyes was a conformist who didn't make any waves regarding the prejudice toward blacks in America. Maybe that fueled a little of Ali's anger toward Frazier. Who knows? Not excusing or saying it was a good reason for him to insult Frazier... but none of us were in either of their shoes to know everything that was behind that. I think this has to do with some of Ali's admiration toward people like Malcolm X. Because Malcolm X was very outspoken about the fact that blacks should not just accept the inferior role the whites were wanting to bestow upon them.

Had I been a black man in the U.S. in the 50's and 60's, who knows..... I may have been pretty outspoken about that myself. The thought of having separate water fountains for blacks and whites... or for having "white-only" restaurants or buses, has to have burned in the craw of many a black man and woman. Ali just chose to voice that displeasure. And in his mind, he resented that fellow blacks like Frazier just seemed to be ok with that.

Point is we weren't there..... so we're not qualified as authorities to judge anybody.

[Gandalf]

Ali made some good calls and also some horrendous ones, but he was a flawed person like anyone else. I disagree with his views on women and race, but I can live with that. I can also see that people see different things through a different lens. In the great scheme of things Ali hasn't done all that much to harm people and in his way he made a great stand by refusing to participate in the US south east Asian genocide. If only more were so enlightened and brave. Ali said no worse to Frazier than what gets said on You Tube every single day. If the worst someone can say is 'He called someone a bad word' then you are kind of reaching in a world of war criminals, central banks, and mercenaries.

[Bill Paxtom]

Partners In Crime

Honorable Elijah Muhammad > "Did you take care of that thing I asked you to do Brother Cassius."

Cassius Clay > "You mean that thing with Malcolm X."

Honorable Elijah Muhammad > "Keep your mouth shut Ass-Hole. We don't need to advertise. Just nod yes or no."

[Master]

Bill you should write fiction, you have a vivid imagination

[Bill Paxtom]

Cassius Clay

"You over there. Are you accusing me of 'back-stabbing' Malcolm X."

"I had nothing to do with the assassination of Malcolm X. I have an alibi."

"I was at home reading a book with my slippers on."

"Yes, he was my best friend. But I have a new friend now, right here at the N.O.I."

[Master]

Ali did not kill Malcolm X, Bill did it.

[TitoFan]

Bill you should write fiction, you have a vivid imagination

I think he should too. Of course, his books would bomb and bookstores would be using his books for firewood..... but at least Bill would have an outlet for both his imagination and his obsessions.

[Bill Paxtom]

Bill you should write fiction, you have a vivid imagination

I think he should too. Of course, his books would bomb and bookstores would be using his books for firewood..... but at least Bill would have an outlet for both his imagination and his obsessions.

I am writing one.

It will be 'the greatest'. A best seller no doubt. Here is the title and book cover.

'A CLASS ASS'

It's easy to become famous. All you have to do is act like an Asshole.

[TitoFan]

Bill you should write fiction, you have a vivid imagination

I think he should too. Of course, his books would bomb and bookstores would be using his books for firewood..... but at least Bill would have an outlet for both his imagination and his obsessions.

I am writing one.

It will be 'the greatest'. A best seller no doubt. Here is the title and book cover.

'A CLASS ASS'

It's easy to become famous. All you have to do is act like an Asshole.

90% of your proceeds should go to the "Muhammad Ali is The Greatest" foundation.

[Bill Paxtom]

Chapter 1

~ Little Bill Jr. puts Coward Clay Away. ~

See how Cassius is tossing his lunch over the Rope Strands.

[Master]

Only in your wet dreams.

Besides I thought you were black?

[TitoFan]

Only in your wet dreams.

Besides I thought you were black?

He can't keep his fantasies straight.