Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
Quote Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust View Post
No mi hermano mio, tu sabes que te quiero mucho pero yo tambien necessito estar NO acuerdo con estos puntos: YOURE putting the focus in the wrong place. The focus is NOT on what the evil whites did to the blacks. We all know that. Anybody who denies that is blind as a bat. The focus is on how and why a black man who championed himself as a spokesperson and do-gooder for black rights would go and defame/insult/hurt the feelings of fellow blacks during that very disturbing racist time of the 60s. That is the focus. Joe Frazier didnt need any EXTRA BULLSHIT from people more than what he was already getting, etc... To say Ali didnt do anywhere NEAR the damage that whites did is a totally separate argument. Of course ali didnt do anywhere near the damage that racist whites did. But who the hell was ever claiming THAT? That is a IMHO silly point to make. The focus here is on Ali and what HE did, not comparing what Ali did to what whites did.!!

As for my Rocco Marcheggiano, I would rout for him everytime he would have fought Ali. And I still say his awkward style would have proven far more challenging to Muhammad than it looks at first glance.


Here's the thing, my good friend. Ali insulted certain black opponents, most notably Frazier. But he also insulted white opponents as well. And we're talking about boxing opponents. Out of the ring Ali championed his right to equality as a human being. Didn't he have that famous quote about the Viet Cong never calling him "nigger" when all the controversy regarding his refusal to be drafted? People may not have liked him very much.... but he had a very good point. Haters never really sat down to listen to him when he addressed groups away from the glare of the boxing ring. He talked to college kids, and other groups of people, and he had some very useful things to say. I'd venture to say Ali championed the cause of the black people a hell of a lot more than the Fraziers and Foremans ever did. How? He stood up and was loud about racism and prejudice.
1. he should have kept his insults to the white boxers only, it wouldnt have effected poor Joe and Floyd and Ernie Terrell and all his brothers he should have been using his fame to comfort and support them, not tear them down..

2. Wish he would have championed Frazier's right to be treated like a decent human being.

3. Who cares about him saying the vietcong never called him "nigger"? What does that have to do with him calling Floyd and Ernie and Joe and George and archie all sorts of horrible hurtful things?

4. Yes on that 4th point I agree with you---he did champion black rights more than Frazier or foreman or Floyd Patterson or ernie Terrell. But he HURT Frazier and Frazier's family irreparably. Frazier actually sent a message to ali that his daughter and sons were being seriously bullied in school in South Philly because all the black kids were echoing ali's words that Joe was an Uncle Tom. They actually had to change schools because of that.

he may have been vocal in front of the microphone (ego, maybe, adoring the spotlight/the limelight? pretty face syndrome?), but on the personal level, where it truly counts, he tore Joe Frazier and others down incessantly for years. Doesnt cut the mustard if you think about it. Frazier gave Ali money when Ali was down and out, so in a way Joe did something for his fellow black brother right there.

Know how Ali thanked him?