Most frustrating negotiations in boxing history

[TIC]

We should boycott Spence and Crawford until they fight each other.

errol v bud might now get even more far away, if ever. jaron ennis & eimantas stanionis will be pushing mandatories soon

[greynotsoold]

Crawford did a lot to make the fight happen, and I don't think that Errol Spence was unwilling to fight. Al Haymon killed that fight.

I’ve never conversed with you on here, but you’re clearly the most knowledgeable guy about the “business end” of American boxing, so when you talk , I listen. Why do you think Haymon would scupper the fight?
Is it too risky for his fighter in his opinion?
I’m just intrigued because it’s pretty clear this is THE Money fight.

That is the opinion of people that I have talked to- Ron sees it a different way and probably many people do. I will say that many of the people I talk to have Top Rank ties and have known Crawford for years. The other people have GBP ties and their boss sued Al Haymon.
A common criticism of Al is that he has been over paying guys for so long that nobody on his team understands what a fight is really worth.

[Primo Carnera]

Crawford did a lot to make the fight happen, and I don't think that Errol Spence was unwilling to fight. Al Haymon killed that fight.

I’ve never conversed with you on here, but you’re clearly the most knowledgeable guy about the “business end” of American boxing, so when you talk , I listen. Why do you think Haymon would scupper the fight?
Is it too risky for his fighter in his opinion?
I’m just intrigued because it’s pretty clear this is THE Money fight.

That is the opinion of people that I have talked to- Ron sees it a different way and probably many people do. I will say that many of the people I talk to have Top Rank ties and have known Crawford for years. The other people have GBP ties and their boss sued Al Haymon.
A common criticism of Al is that he has been over paying guys for so long that nobody on his team understands what a fight is really worth.

And this is kinda the problem with the “boxing is a business” mantra. You get businessmen from out of the sport come in and , dare I say it “overpay” Boxers.
Now I’m sure that will open up a whole lot of comments about Danger, short career, put yourself in their shoes etc. But a fight is worth what it is worth.
And now we have the same problem brewing as with Soccer, inflated earnings, different priorities, money going out of the sport,
You tubers latching on Etc. And the sport suffers.
I have total admiration and respect for EVERY SINGLE BOXER that gets between the ropes, and good luck to them, get what you can. I don’t have all the answers, but it isn’t right at the moment.

[Master]

The inflating of the market by middle east/streaming sites has resulted in great matchups not happening which is a shame. Rightly money comes before legacy for a fighter but there must come a time where their competitive nature will want to prove they are the best in their division.

[TitoFan]

See? This is what I mean. As fans, not only do we exchange opinions on fighters and their fights. Nowadays we're forced to form opinions on who's fault it is, when a fight doesn't happen (or takes too long to happen). But in forming opinions about fighters and their fights we get to use our own eyes. We don't depend on "he said she said." On fight negotiations, and the "who's holding up the works" nebulous area, we depend on what is reported to us. Which is why I think a lot of our speculations are just that... speculations. Based on 3rd party reporting.

For this fight all I can do is say that IMO, Crawford will end up looking the worse of the two. For reasons I've stated over in the Crawford-Avanesyan thread. Crawford is the relative newcomer to the division. Crawford is the one who still needs a couple more elite names in the division before he can make legitimate claims as to his all-time ranking. Crawford is the one with the well-publicized struggles with his previous promoter.

If this fight never happens, Crawford's image stands the most to lose.

[Primo Carnera]

The inflating of the market by middle east/streaming sites has resulted in great matchups not happening which is a shame. Rightly money comes before legacy for a fighter but there must come a time where their competitive nature will want to prove they are the best in their division.

See this is the thing, I slightly disagree. Not so much disagree, but I feel, and history has proved it countless times in the past, that if you go for legacy, go for titles, the money comes anyway.
You make your name, Your “brand” if you like, then the money will come.
And I’ll venture to go further and people I’m sure will disagree, but I’ll give examples of where people would have been better off chasing legacy rather than money.
GGG - I firmly believe that if he carried on mopping up the MW division , even slowing down to 2 fights a year because of aging, he would have built his own price bracket and his purses would’ve continued to increase, rather than hang onto Canelo’s nut sack and wait years for the golden ticket, getting royally dicked about and tainting his legacy into the bargain. I reckon his earnings would’ve been no different.
Kell Brook - was going along nicely increasing his status and with it, his earning potential, but decided for a quick money grab , flying up in weight , and his career was never the same after.
If he had stayed at WW and fought the biggest fights at that division, his (and their) earnings potential would’ve increased anyway.
Ok, he made a pot of cash with Khan, but that’s a whole nother ridiculous story.
Conor Benn & Chris Eubank Jr. - I think time will tell exactly how much both of these have fucked up their careers for the money grab of all money grabs.
And let’s not forget , Eubank played hardball with the GGG negotiations , allowing Brook to step in. And all these years later, he’s no further down the line as who is the guy he is calling out for his preferred next fight ? Yep, GGG.
Spence/ Crawford - yes they will decent money whoever they fight next, but if they fought each other, not only would they have made an absolute stack, but guess what, guaranteed there would be rematch clauses and they would be able to do it all over again.
I believe we , as fans are way too accepting of the decisions that get made at the moment. Yeah we moan about the fights not getting made, but we still put our cash down for the matches we don’t want to see and the mismatches .
So like I’ve said before, ultimately it’s our fault.

[Master]

The inflating of the market by middle east/streaming sites has resulted in great matchups not happening which is a shame. Rightly money comes before legacy for a fighter but there must come a time where their competitive nature will want to prove they are the best in their division.

See this is the thing, I slightly disagree. Not so much disagree, but I feel, and history has proved it countless times in the past, that if you go for legacy, go for titles, the money comes anyway.
You make your name, Your “brand” if you like, then the money will come.
And I’ll venture to go further and people I’m sure will disagree, but I’ll give examples of where people would have been better off chasing legacy rather than money.
GGG - I firmly believe that if he carried on mopping up the MW division , even slowing down to 2 fights a year because of aging, he would have built his own price bracket and his purses would’ve continued to increase, rather than hang onto Canelo’s nut sack and wait years for the golden ticket, getting royally dicked about and tainting his legacy into the bargain. I reckon his earnings would’ve been no different.
Kell Brook - was going along nicely increasing his status and with it, his earning potential, but decided for a quick money grab , flying up in weight , and his career was never the same after.
If he had stayed at WW and fought the biggest fights at that division, his (and their) earnings potential would’ve increased anyway.
Ok, he made a pot of cash with Khan, but that’s a whole nother ridiculous story.
Conor Benn & Chris Eubank Jr. - I think time will tell exactly how much both of these have fucked up their careers for the money grab of all money grabs.
And let’s not forget , Eubank played hardball with the GGG negotiations , allowing Brook to step in. And all these years later, he’s no further down the line as who is the guy he is calling out for his preferred next fight ? Yep, GGG.
Spence/ Crawford - yes they will decent money whoever they fight next, but if they fought each other, not only would they have made an absolute stack, but guess what, guaranteed there would be rematch clauses and they would be able to do it all over again.
I believe we , as fans are way too accepting of the decisions that get made at the moment. Yeah we moan about the fights not getting made, but we still put our cash down for the matches we don’t want to see and the mismatches .
So like I’ve said before, ultimately it’s our fault.

You are right and in an ideal world legacy fights should follow money but injuries, dangerous contenders with low reward, and/or loss of form can get in the way.

It is a decision and risk that the fighter takes for his career and must live with for the rest of their lives.

Whyte turned down the offer to face AJ and went his own route. Ruiz went on to beat AJ, that could have been Whyte but he did not take the risk.

[Primo Carnera]

The inflating of the market by middle east/streaming sites has resulted in great matchups not happening which is a shame. Rightly money comes before legacy for a fighter but there must come a time where their competitive nature will want to prove they are the best in their division.

See this is the thing, I slightly disagree. Not so much disagree, but I feel, and history has proved it countless times in the past, that if you go for legacy, go for titles, the money comes anyway.
You make your name, Your “brand” if you like, then the money will come.
And I’ll venture to go further and people I’m sure will disagree, but I’ll give examples of where people would have been better off chasing legacy rather than money.
GGG - I firmly believe that if he carried on mopping up the MW division , even slowing down to 2 fights a year because of aging, he would have built his own price bracket and his purses would’ve continued to increase, rather than hang onto Canelo’s nut sack and wait years for the golden ticket, getting royally dicked about and tainting his legacy into the bargain. I reckon his earnings would’ve been no different.
Kell Brook - was going along nicely increasing his status and with it, his earning potential, but decided for a quick money grab , flying up in weight , and his career was never the same after.
If he had stayed at WW and fought the biggest fights at that division, his (and their) earnings potential would’ve increased anyway.
Ok, he made a pot of cash with Khan, but that’s a whole nother ridiculous story.
Conor Benn & Chris Eubank Jr. - I think time will tell exactly how much both of these have fucked up their careers for the money grab of all money grabs.
And let’s not forget , Eubank played hardball with the GGG negotiations , allowing Brook to step in. And all these years later, he’s no further down the line as who is the guy he is calling out for his preferred next fight ? Yep, GGG.
Spence/ Crawford - yes they will decent money whoever they fight next, but if they fought each other, not only would they have made an absolute stack, but guess what, guaranteed there would be rematch clauses and they would be able to do it all over again.
I believe we , as fans are way too accepting of the decisions that get made at the moment. Yeah we moan about the fights not getting made, but we still put our cash down for the matches we don’t want to see and the mismatches .
So like I’ve said before, ultimately it’s our fault.

You are right and in an ideal world legacy fights should follow money but injuries, dangerous contenders with low reward, and/or loss of form can get in the way.

It is a decision and risk that the fighter takes for his career and must live with for the rest of their lives.

Whyte turned down the offer to face AJ and went his own route. Ruiz went on to beat AJ, that could have been Whyte but he did not take the risk.

Exactly that.

[greynotsoold]

I spoke to a fighter that started with Golden Boy, and won a world title and made good money. He jumped to PBC and got paid stupid money to fight Ricky Burns.
In his mind signing with PBC killed his career because, in his opinion, he wasn't getting good fights to keep him interested and excited. You could make a case that all of a sudden having a bunch of money killed his discipline and derailed his career. Maybe it is the same thing.

[Primo Carnera]

I spoke to a fighter that started with Golden Boy, and won a world title and made good money. He jumped to PBC and got paid stupid money to fight Ricky Burns.
In his mind signing with PBC killed his career because, in his opinion, he wasn't getting good fights to keep him interested and excited. You could make a case that all of a sudden having a bunch of money killed his discipline and derailed his career. Maybe it is the same thing.

This is what I mean about changing priorities. His priority was becoming a World Champion , then he got a load of dough thrown at him to drop the belt he’d worked so hard by going up in weight. Everything changed.

[TIC]

tyson fury v aj & terence crawford v errol spence were teased, instead tyson fury v dereck chisora & terence crawford v david avanesyan were made

[mikeeod]

I spoke to a fighter that started with Golden Boy, and won a world title and made good money. He jumped to PBC and got paid stupid money to fight Ricky Burns.
In his mind signing with PBC killed his career because, in his opinion, he wasn't getting good fights to keep him interested and excited. You could make a case that all of a sudden having a bunch of money killed his discipline and derailed his career. Maybe it is the same thing.

This is a great point. I feel like PBC/Al Haymon are the modern day version of Don King- with a slight twist (PBC doesn’t seem to rip off/steal from the fighters like King did). Don attempted to monopolize the sport by only letting his champs and big names fight boxers who signed contracts with him. PBC is doing the same- buy a stable of big name fighters and then add to that stable by only letting other PBC fighters challenge the big names. Where King was worse in terms of stealing from his fighters, he was better from the perspective of recognizing when it made sense to cross promotional boundaries and make big fights (Oscar vs Tito, Hop vs Tito…etc.).

The difference was that back then boxers fought for legacy and greatness- it was a different mindset. You see that mindset in some fighters today (Canelo, Loma, Fury, Usyk…etc.), but not to the level you did through the 2000s. Roy was the first fighter I remember who started talking risk/reward and approached boxing as business- with Floyd taking it to a whole other level later in his career. The difference was that both of those guys were legacy focused until later on in their careers, where many fighters today start out with a low risk/high reward and risk averse mentality.

[Primo Carnera]

Exactly! Start with prioritising legacy and titles , and the rest will follow in due course.

[Master]

Each fighter has different levels of motivation and aspirations to go for legacy.

Boxers have a relatively small window of opportunity to make big money and is normally in the latter part of their career when age is setting in and have to use their experience to win fights.

Tyson Fury is interested in unifying the title and beating AJ for his legacy. After that he will retire he has all the money he needs and that is his motivation to continue boxing.

[Primo Carnera]

Each fighter has different levels of motivation and aspirations to go for legacy.

Boxers have a relatively small window of opportunity to make big money and is normally in the latter part of their career when age is setting in and have to use their experience to win fights.

Tyson Fury is interested in unifying the title and beating AJ for his legacy. After that he will retire he has all the money he needs and that is his motivation to continue boxing.

No he fucking isn't!