'Thinking Out of the Box'

[pacfan]

Sometimes when everything fails, you got to open your eyes a bit more and see beyond your usual myopic horizon for some other possible solutions. You ought to think out of the box, so to speak. Examples most well illustrate this point:

- Years back when my brother was working at a Japanese company, he heard this story about a boardroom discussion at the famous Ajinomoto company. Ajinomoto is a flavor enhancing condiment (m.s.g.), which is sold in Japan usually in shakers to be sprinkled into foods during cooking. The board was discussing their sales problem and wanted find a way increase their sales by 10%. After much discussion on how they might be able to increase their sales, with all the business experts and technicians present and employing all forms of usual corporate presentations to expressing their varied ideas, they came to a standstill and was about to take a break from the long, serious discussion when a company janitor came in for his usual round. Just to have some respite from the serious discussion, one company official jokingly asked the janitor his opinion. He answered, 'No problem, sirs, just increase the numbers of holes on the shakers by 10-20% and you can increase your sales by at least 10%!

Without going into the merits of the idea, this story illustrates pretty clearly how we can come out with unlikely solutions to our problems if we think out of the box. Here’s another story I read in Reader's Digest some years back, though not in it's exact original form:

- There was a man who was trying to get a ping-pong ball out of a hole in a ground just little bigger than the ball itself in diameter and about 2 feet deep. While he was about to give up after trying every creative way to snag the ball out of the hole, his 8-year old son said, 'dad, just pour some water in the hole,' and as he did what his son said, the ball just popped out of the hole as soon as it was flooded by the gushing water.

Here, the man has set his mind just on how to snag the ping-pong ball out and never thought that there might be other ways to get it out. Sounds familiar, huh.

Applied to boxing, I’ve always wondered why most boxing gyms still use those ancient system of training as I doubt the effectiveness of some of those old methods of training. About the only things improved are the gym equipments but the training methods are basically the same today as it was then. Boxing trainers should start thinking out of the box and start coming up with some innovative ideas for training than to rigidly (and stubbornly) sticking to the old, outdated methods. For example, why does Pacquiao punches so hard? It’s because, good for him, he started punching outside the gym, barehanded. He started punching coconut trunks, padded with rubber flip-flops, barehanded. Punching steady objects barehanded forces you to punch correctly. I think Clubber knows that. Barehanded punching requires you to keep your arms firm and tight, from the fists on, to the wrists and way up the shoulders and chest (sometimes the whole body). One of the biggest mistakes of boxing training method is that they start punching with gloves on, and to make it worse, with wrappings around the hands. It’s really difficult to tighten your arm muscles with gloves on, especially for beginners, because it is difficult to clench your fists tight inside heavily padded gloves, coupled with the wrappings. I will not go into details but it’s sufficient to point out here that the training system is outdated, IMO, and boxing trainers need to think out of the box to come up with new ideas for more effective method of modern boxing training.

Of course, the idea of thinking out of the box applied to boxing is just an example. It can and should be applied to any difficult situation or problem that needs creative solutions.

[Andre]

I agree , you would get more bites on this thread in Ask the trainer bro.

[Youngblood]

While I'm all for thinking out of the box, we've already had a topic on barehanded punching and such. I just fail to see it's benefit for a boxer. I also don't attribute it to why Pac is who he is. I'm fairly certain he'd be just as good or tough without that particular aspect. He is naturally gifted. Lucky he hasn't smashed his precious hands to bits, IMO.

I know this was just an example of the concept of abstract thought, but don't really feel it is a good one. Would have a lot of boxers out there breaking bones trying to be like Pac.

[pacfan]

I agree , you would get more bites on this thread in Ask the trainer bro.

Thanks Andre, but I'd rather not cuz I might start a riot our there where the traditionalists reigns, haha. Actually that was just a sample of 'out of box' thinking and I thought boxing example would suit well than anything else here.

While I'm all for thinking out of the box, we've already had a topic on barehanded punching and such. I just fail to see it's benefit for a boxer. I also don't attribute it to why Pac is who he is. I'm fairly certain he'd be just as good or tough without that particular aspect. He is naturally gifted. Lucky he hasn't smashed his precious hands to bits, IMO.

I know this was just an example of the concept of abstract thought, but don't really feel it is a good one. Would have a lot of boxers out there breaking bones trying to be like Pac.

Sorry about that, Youngblood, I wasn't clear enough there. Actually punching barehanded doesn't mean banging your fists to crack some hard stuffs. Barehanded punching can be done by punching an adequately padded posts. The idea is not just punching some solid stuffs, but to punch barehanded, which more easily allows you to tighten the grip of your fists. That tight grip, or clenching, of fists is an important aspect of correct punching. It's really difficult to have a solid punch with your hands in a sort of loose grip that you naturally have when your hands are wrapped with bandages and your grip further hampered with heavily padded gloves. One of the most important aspect of good punch is well-tightened muscles from the fists, to the wrists up the whole arm, and up to the shoulders and chest, and even the whole body in some cases. You can more easily learn to do that with a firm, tight grip of your fists than trying to do that with loose grip inside the gloves. If you have any doubt, just try gripping or clenching your fist real tight and at the same time tighten all your arm muscles up to the shoulder and try punching. If you seriously do that for awhile, I bet you'll see the difference. It would be better if someone can actually show you, though. Wish I could do that for you but you'll need to pay for my plane ticket first.

[Youngblood]

Yes I get what you mean, pacfan. Sorry didn't mean to detract from the object of your post. I also realize you bring with it a history of martial arts, that are now focused on its spiritual aspects. I'm always looking for new and interesting things, in training and in life. So I very much like the point you are conveying about keeping an open mind.

[pacfan]

Yes I get what you mean, pacfan. Sorry didn't mean to detract from the object of your post. I also realize you bring with it a history of martial arts, that are now focused on its spiritual aspects. I'm always looking for new and interesting things, in training and in life. So I very much like the point you are conveying about keeping an open mind.

Thanks Youngblood, and congratulations for your new outlook of things in life and a rep would be a nice little reward for that... If you are really serious about punching, observe how good punchers like de Leon, Katsidis and Darchinian cock their arms during fights; they are actually trying to tighten their arm muscles before they actually throw their punches.

[Andre]

You havent got the time to retract the arm and load up a full twisting karate style punch when in a boxing ring every time. The speed of boxings style doesnt allow it all the time,althoiugh it can be done on the opponents over reaction or when they have been beat down already and you use it for a finisher.
There is a place for every technique in fighting though ,to say something cannot work or wont work ever, is what many old boxing trainers still adhere to but that cant be right, so it has to be a protection of their inground way and refusal to any change. The Asian influence may force them to rethink eventually, I think fighters will now begin to emerge that use all things in their rightful place and will be more untouchable if they stick with whats proven to work technically in each right situation and correct timeing for thatoe technique.
Like control of both arms when moving in and release and strike on their reactions to it. Or switching out of their range as moving in on one side so you are closing in while avoiding their strongest arm and controlling their lead arm in between all the action for that instant.
The list goes on and on.Attacking arms on the way in first, controlling arms on the way in. And then the same going out with the correst movments so that an advantage is gained or a trap layed on the other guys movments; these things have to happen eventually and I agree it will come from an eastern fighter. I think one who can fight off both sides equally and utilizes all techniques that work from doing that. There are limits but he will know them backwards and wont be in the wrong spot trying the wrong thing.

[pacfan]

You're right, I've been shadow-boxing, though in karate style, for long time I've forgotten that pure karate punches are different from boxing. I've been punching boxing style but with karate power on it so we know at least punches can be adapted to both style. Karatemen doesn't do well against boxers in the boxing ring with boxing rules is because of the difference in their respective approaches and goals. Karate is defensive, hence self-defense, and are meant for real bare-handed fighting situations where all can be finished with just couple of shots. But with boxing gloves on, they have no such luxury, and if they are in boxing fights, they have to do away with their purely defensive styles. We've been taught to attack (counter) when the opponent attacks because fighters are at their weakest when they attack. That is because they lose their stability - their strenght and balance - when they attack. Instead of being apprehensive when attacked, we were taught to be happy when attacked - and the teachers were proven to be right! If done correctly, we can usually finish the fight when attacked. But with gloves and no lethal kicking, it doesn't work that way in boxing. This is true also to lesser extent in those mma style fighting. Just put in top karateman in the ring with top boxer but with karate rules in barehanded fighting where the boxers are obliged to attack, just as in boxing, and I can guarantee you it'll be finished as soon as the boxer attacks. Of course you folks won't believe that, no problem with that for me though. But then again, I'm talking of real karate and not the usual kind taught in most of the schools where they have been sort of diluted or weakened to suit needs of the city boys, or shall I say weaklings?naw, that won't be nice...

To change the story just a bit, walking shadow boxing in karate style has been my chief way of exercise for some time now and I make it a point to do it for 40 minutes a day to keep myself fit. The advantage of adding some karate style in shadow-boxing is that you can control its intensity. I can make it high, medium or light intensity depending on my condition at the time by adjusting muscle tension and the speed. Unlike boxer who usually shadow-box for speed and as a light workout, my way of shadow boxing can be very intensive. At maximum intensity, I just increase that speed and the tension of my mucsles. When I punch at maximum intensity, I punch as if I'm pushing a truck with my fist, with a little jerk (sorry about that) near the end; at medium, a motorcyle, perhaps, and at light, a bicycle - all of course with their corresponding speeds.

Going back to punches, I'll change my words to describe de Leon et al's punching as powerful instead of good. They are actually amateurish in their style but powerful nevertheless in their punches. The fact that they have to cock their arms first before they throw their punches shows their amateur-ness. Good punchers, like pac, Marquez, and Trinidad (who was among the best punchers of this generation) don't have to do that because they are able to control their muscles used in punching anytime at will unlike the de Leon group who has to do so beforehand. Their amateur-like style in cocking their arms beforehand, which makes their punches easily telegraph-able, is responsible for their recent loses, except perhaps de Leon (but he almost lost to one of our boys Penalosa, who some say he won, because Penalosa blocked almost all his power shots for the entire 12-rounds and even had him running the last couple of rounds). But I choose the de Leon group precisely to illustrate my point that tightening muscles (which they do by cocking their arms) is essential to power punching, and it is that cocking action they show that well-illustrates my point. But of course the best punchers actually don't show that.

Haha, Andre, you are good at baiting me into these discussion and you very well know my ethical (or is it hypocritical) reason for not discussing these matters. But not to worry, I'll perhaps post up some advices there at the training section when I have some time, which are primarily defensive or health-ful in nature, like putting some ki (no big deal though, it just means mind in Japanese) in training excercises, and about reflexes. Almost everyone's amazed by PBF's reflexes but actually most people have that, they just don't realize it - it's a natural part of human nature.