'Thinking Out of the Box'

[Youngblood]

Yes I get what you mean, pacfan. Sorry didn't mean to detract from the object of your post. I also realize you bring with it a history of martial arts, that are now focused on its spiritual aspects. I'm always looking for new and interesting things, in training and in life. So I very much like the point you are conveying about keeping an open mind.

[pacfan]

Yes I get what you mean, pacfan. Sorry didn't mean to detract from the object of your post. I also realize you bring with it a history of martial arts, that are now focused on its spiritual aspects. I'm always looking for new and interesting things, in training and in life. So I very much like the point you are conveying about keeping an open mind.

Thanks Youngblood, and congratulations for your new outlook of things in life and a rep would be a nice little reward for that... If you are really serious about punching, observe how good punchers like de Leon, Katsidis and Darchinian cock their arms during fights; they are actually trying to tighten their arm muscles before they actually throw their punches.

[Andre]

You havent got the time to retract the arm and load up a full twisting karate style punch when in a boxing ring every time. The speed of boxings style doesnt allow it all the time,althoiugh it can be done on the opponents over reaction or when they have been beat down already and you use it for a finisher.
There is a place for every technique in fighting though ,to say something cannot work or wont work ever, is what many old boxing trainers still adhere to but that cant be right, so it has to be a protection of their inground way and refusal to any change. The Asian influence may force them to rethink eventually, I think fighters will now begin to emerge that use all things in their rightful place and will be more untouchable if they stick with whats proven to work technically in each right situation and correct timeing for thatoe technique.
Like control of both arms when moving in and release and strike on their reactions to it. Or switching out of their range as moving in on one side so you are closing in while avoiding their strongest arm and controlling their lead arm in between all the action for that instant.
The list goes on and on.Attacking arms on the way in first, controlling arms on the way in. And then the same going out with the correst movments so that an advantage is gained or a trap layed on the other guys movments; these things have to happen eventually and I agree it will come from an eastern fighter. I think one who can fight off both sides equally and utilizes all techniques that work from doing that. There are limits but he will know them backwards and wont be in the wrong spot trying the wrong thing.

[pacfan]

You're right, I've been shadow-boxing, though in karate style, for long time I've forgotten that pure karate punches are different from boxing. I've been punching boxing style but with karate power on it so we know at least punches can be adapted to both style. Karatemen doesn't do well against boxers in the boxing ring with boxing rules is because of the difference in their respective approaches and goals. Karate is defensive, hence self-defense, and are meant for real bare-handed fighting situations where all can be finished with just couple of shots. But with boxing gloves on, they have no such luxury, and if they are in boxing fights, they have to do away with their purely defensive styles. We've been taught to attack (counter) when the opponent attacks because fighters are at their weakest when they attack. That is because they lose their stability - their strenght and balance - when they attack. Instead of being apprehensive when attacked, we were taught to be happy when attacked - and the teachers were proven to be right! If done correctly, we can usually finish the fight when attacked. But with gloves and no lethal kicking, it doesn't work that way in boxing. This is true also to lesser extent in those mma style fighting. Just put in top karateman in the ring with top boxer but with karate rules in barehanded fighting where the boxers are obliged to attack, just as in boxing, and I can guarantee you it'll be finished as soon as the boxer attacks. Of course you folks won't believe that, no problem with that for me though. But then again, I'm talking of real karate and not the usual kind taught in most of the schools where they have been sort of diluted or weakened to suit needs of the city boys, or shall I say weaklings?naw, that won't be nice...

To change the story just a bit, walking shadow boxing in karate style has been my chief way of exercise for some time now and I make it a point to do it for 40 minutes a day to keep myself fit. The advantage of adding some karate style in shadow-boxing is that you can control its intensity. I can make it high, medium or light intensity depending on my condition at the time by adjusting muscle tension and the speed. Unlike boxer who usually shadow-box for speed and as a light workout, my way of shadow boxing can be very intensive. At maximum intensity, I just increase that speed and the tension of my mucsles. When I punch at maximum intensity, I punch as if I'm pushing a truck with my fist, with a little jerk (sorry about that) near the end; at medium, a motorcyle, perhaps, and at light, a bicycle - all of course with their corresponding speeds.

Going back to punches, I'll change my words to describe de Leon et al's punching as powerful instead of good. They are actually amateurish in their style but powerful nevertheless in their punches. The fact that they have to cock their arms first before they throw their punches shows their amateur-ness. Good punchers, like pac, Marquez, and Trinidad (who was among the best punchers of this generation) don't have to do that because they are able to control their muscles used in punching anytime at will unlike the de Leon group who has to do so beforehand. Their amateur-like style in cocking their arms beforehand, which makes their punches easily telegraph-able, is responsible for their recent loses, except perhaps de Leon (but he almost lost to one of our boys Penalosa, who some say he won, because Penalosa blocked almost all his power shots for the entire 12-rounds and even had him running the last couple of rounds). But I choose the de Leon group precisely to illustrate my point that tightening muscles (which they do by cocking their arms) is essential to power punching, and it is that cocking action they show that well-illustrates my point. But of course the best punchers actually don't show that.

Haha, Andre, you are good at baiting me into these discussion and you very well know my ethical (or is it hypocritical) reason for not discussing these matters. But not to worry, I'll perhaps post up some advices there at the training section when I have some time, which are primarily defensive or health-ful in nature, like putting some ki (no big deal though, it just means mind in Japanese) in training excercises, and about reflexes. Almost everyone's amazed by PBF's reflexes but actually most people have that, they just don't realize it - it's a natural part of human nature.