Another Slight Against Christ

[brucelee]

Well to be honest it just makes me all the more guilty when I download my favourite dogging and teeny bukkake dvd's.

at least you feel guilty. I'm starting to believe that I was here to guide you Bilbs.

the LUST OF THE FLESH IS STRONG IN YOU. Hope I could convince you to stay away from porno materials.

You really don't want to try Bruce, all that would happen is I would end up sending you links.

LMAO. I'm well protected with websites having popups. Don't you just hate those porn sites with all their popups? Not to mention the viruses they can give you. Visiting those sites is like getting STDs.

Anyway, if you really can't fight the temptation I can send you some scripts that will automatically shutdown your computer when you open porn sites.

[pacfan]

I believe this world is still a battleground between the good and the evil, I mean the good (God) and evil (the beast) within. They say we are still half God and half beast, and both of them are fighting within ourselves, and we are struggling with it. I believe eventually, God will win the war because that is the how we were made and meant to be, and humans will eventually be a perfect being, perhaps thousands of years from now.

Since we are talking about taking a slight against Christ, I'd just like to point out that doing so even against any religion or religious figure is a step backward for the doer. When you attack some religion or religious figure, do you feel good? If not, it just means you're taking backward steps away from that way to perfection I've mentioned above, and drawing negative energy into yourself - that's why you don't feel good. This is a form of 'you reap what you sow' thing. Besides, people should just be presenting their own doctrines or belief in a positive way rather than wasting their souls and energy attacking others' beliefs, which is a negative way, simply because it stirs up negative energy in you that will pull you down. A way to perfection is always positive - you should never feel bad towards anyone or anything. This is the way that will eventually lead you to perfection.

[Andre]

I believe this world is still a battleground between the good and the evil, I mean the good (God) and evil (the beast) within. They say we are still half God and half beast, and both of them are fighting within ourselves, and we are struggling with it. I believe eventually, God will win the war because that is the how we were made and meant to be, and humans will eventually be a perfect being, perhaps thousands of years from now.

Since we are talking about taking a slight against Christ, I'd just like to point out that doing so even against any religion or religious figure is a step backward for the doer. When you attack some religion or religious figure, do you feel good? If not, it just means you're taking backward steps away from that way to perfection I've mentioned above, and drawing negative energy into yourself - that's why you don't feel good. This is a form of 'you reap what you sow' thing. Besides, people should just be presenting their own doctrines or belief in a positive way rather than wasting their souls and energy attacking others' beliefs, which is a negative way, simply because it stirs up negative energy in you that will pull you down. A way to perfection is always positive - you should never feel bad towards anyone or anything. This is the way that will eventually lead you to perfection.

Ultimatley that is true but only personally and that self destructive.
If there are innocents being used at the expence of dark ones who know how and where to use; and those innocents are giving away their light power of love force energies away to the ones who know exactly how take it away from them (because they cant generate it themselves). Then you are doing the light brotherhoods work by exposing them and freeing the innocent from those chains.

The thing you say is true,but only in the personal effect of holding a grudge or judgment against another soul on a personal level.

Judgment and action against the act and its energies is your job.
To do work for the poor or stand up for innocents against the darker forces that wield more power in their chosen areas where they turn light into dark is not detrimental when you bring light to the cause ,quite the reverse.

Its an excuse not to act against what is the enemy of light and love that is the real demon working from within.

[CFH]

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

Mohandas Gandhi

[pacfan]

I believe this world is still a battleground between the good and the evil, I mean the good (God) and evil (the beast) within. They say we are still half God and half beast, and both of them are fighting within ourselves, and we are struggling with it. I believe eventually, God will win the war because that is the how we were made and meant to be, and humans will eventually be a perfect being, perhaps thousands of years from now.

Since we are talking about taking a slight against Christ, I'd just like to point out that doing so even against any religion or religious figure is a step backward for the doer. When you attack some religion or religious figure, do you feel good? If not, it just means you're taking backward steps away from that way to perfection I've mentioned above, and drawing negative energy into yourself - that's why you don't feel good. This is a form of 'you reap what you sow' thing. Besides, people should just be presenting their own doctrines or belief in a positive way rather than wasting their souls and energy attacking others' beliefs, which is a negative way, simply because it stirs up negative energy in you that will pull you down. A way to perfection is always positive - you should never feel bad towards anyone or anything. This is the way that will eventually lead you to perfection.

Ultimatley that is true but only personally and that self destructive.
If there are innocents being used at the expence of dark ones who know how and where to use; and those innocents are giving away their light power of love force energies away to the ones who know exactly how take it away from them (because they cant generate it themselves). Then you are doing the light brotherhoods work by exposing them and freeing the innocent from those chains.

The thing you say is true,but only in the personal effect of holding a grudge or judgment against another soul on a personal level.

Judgment and action against the act and its energies is your job.
To do work for the poor or stand up for innocents against the darker forces that wield more power in their chosen areas where they turn light into dark is not detrimental when you bring light to the cause ,quite the reverse.

Its an excuse not to act against what is the enemy of light and love that is the real demon working from within.

That is true if there is a clear evidence that one religion is right as against the rest. My problem is that I am (and I think many others are too) not sure which one(s) is/are absolutely correct or righteous and which are wrong or evil since there is not much evidence to prove that except the words written by ancient people. (If there were clear evidence we will probably just have just one religion.) It is just matter of choice that we chose to believe one while rejecting others, but on the final analysis, there is not much evidence to prove one is true as against all the others. We just chose to take the words of one religion against all the others, which can be right or wrong. Actually, I'm not sure whether it is the Christians, Muslims, or Hindus that are right because simply put, it's the words of one against the others. Not only that, in many case your religious beliefs are dictated by where you were born and you haven't got much choice there. If you were born in Arab countries, you'd almost surely be a Muslim; if Tibet, a Buddhist; if England, an atheist like Dark Lord Al (just kiddin'); etc.

So since in my own opinion, there is not much evidence to prove which is the true religion, I decided to see every good or positive side of every religion as true and on this, I believe all religion can unite - that is, unite in goodness. (I must be dreaming again.) And secondly, I also decided my conscience to dictate my belief in what might be true and good - I never felt good when I attacked other's religious beliefs. They say conscience is God's voice in your heart and they are right! That's why I decided to stop attacking the religious beliefs of other people. Actually, whether people believe me or not, I've felt some people here feeling that way when they went into extreme attack against some religion because they sent out negative aura of guilt while doing that (try it, Andre, I think you can sense that on some people here if you're sensitive enough). What disturbs me is that without them knowing, they have probably paid for it somehow, somewhere, because 'you reap what you sow.' That's why I chose emphasize the positive. Though sometimes evil can disguise as good, ultimately they will be exposed, and I believe at least in the end, we can't go wrong by keeping on going and going for the positive... Just my thought...

[pacfan]

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

Mohandas Gandhi

He's got a point there. One thing about religion I've noticed is that cultural influence on it is more stronger than vice versa. I think it should be the other way around. On this point, most religion behave more or less the same. One good example: we condemn jihad but they say those radicals misinterpreted the true meaning of that principle. Christians also had their holy wars in their early years. Clearly, it the level of cultural development that determines how religious scriptures are interpreted and how their adherents act - the more developed their culture is, the more gentle and compassionate they become. (I've got a feeling you will disagree with me again, LOL)

[CFH]

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

Mohandas Gandhi

He's got a point there. One thing about religion I've noticed is that cultural influence on it is more stronger than vice versa. I think it should be the other way around. On this point, most religion behave more or less the same. One good example: we condemn jihad but they say those radicals misinterpreted the true meaning of that principle. Christians also had their holy wars in their early years. Clearly, it the level of cultural development that determines how religious scriptures are interpreted and how their adherents act - the more developed their culture is, the more gentle and compassionate they become. (I've got a feeling you will disagree with me again, LOL)

You're right, I disagree vehemently with that statement. What do you mean by cultural development and how do you judge it? Are you somehow implying that modern Christians are somehow more evolved than radical Muslims? Because that is a ludicrous statement that ignore a myriad of factors.

[Kev]

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

Mohandas Gandhi

He's got a point there. One thing about religion I've noticed is that cultural influence on it is more stronger than vice versa. I think it should be the other way around. On this point, most religion behave more or less the same. One good example: we condemn jihad but they say those radicals misinterpreted the true meaning of that principle. Christians also had their holy wars in their early years. Clearly, it the level of cultural development that determines how religious scriptures are interpreted and how their adherents act - the more developed their culture is, the more gentle and compassionate they become. (I've got a feeling you will disagree with me again, LOL)

You're right, I disagree vehemently with that statement. What do you mean by cultural development and how do you judge it? Are you somehow implying that modern Christians are somehow more evolved than radical Muslims? Because that is a ludicrous statement that ignore a myriad of factors.

It's got nothing to do with evolution but certainly the Western World has seen a number of important developments in thought, philosophy,sociological and political ideas etc.

For example much of our thought foundations are based on the Classical world with ideas about democracy, an exploration of science and logical ideas. Plus think about all the religious and socialogical revolutions the West has had, Lutherism, Marxism, the renaissance, the philosophies of Kant, Hegel, Descarte's etc. So much has happened in Europe over the past few hundred years and we've developed better ways of living, more fair, less warlike, embracing capitalism and basing our lives on economics rather than religion.

Meanwhile the Arab world has just kind of stayed in the desert pretty much in isolation and with only one book.

They are completely fucking backwards by any standard you wish to apply.

I mean even if you say how can we compare, and who is to say what is right you'd have a hard time demonstrating any parts of Arab life where you could say they perform better than the western world.

I mean the status of woman, the health and wealth of the people, the personal freedoms, the infastructure, the great monuments and technological innovations, the cultural outpouring and worthy achievements. There is simply nothing that the Arab world does that is better than the West.

[Andre]

I believe this world is still a battleground between the good and the evil, I mean the good (God) and evil (the beast) within. They say we are still half God and half beast, and both of them are fighting within ourselves, and we are struggling with it. I believe eventually, God will win the war because that is the how we were made and meant to be, and humans will eventually be a perfect being, perhaps thousands of years from now.

Since we are talking about taking a slight against Christ, I'd just like to point out that doing so even against any religion or religious figure is a step backward for the doer. When you attack some religion or religious figure, do you feel good? If not, it just means you're taking backward steps away from that way to perfection I've mentioned above, and drawing negative energy into yourself - that's why you don't feel good. This is a form of 'you reap what you sow' thing. Besides, people should just be presenting their own doctrines or belief in a positive way rather than wasting their souls and energy attacking others' beliefs, which is a negative way, simply because it stirs up negative energy in you that will pull you down. A way to perfection is always positive - you should never feel bad towards anyone or anything. This is the way that will eventually lead you to perfection.

Ultimatley that is true but only personally and thats self destructive.
If there are innocents being used at the expence of dark ones who know how and where to use; and those innocents are giving away their light power of love force energies away to the ones who know exactly how take it away from them (because they cant generate it themselves). Then you are doing the light brotherhoods work by exposing them and freeing the innocent from those chains.

The thing you say is true,but only in the personal effect of holding a grudge or judgment against another soul on a personal level.

Judgment and action against the act and its energies is your job.
To do work for the poor or stand up for innocents against the darker forces that wield more power in their chosen areas where they turn light into dark is not detrimental when you bring light to the cause ,quite the reverse.

Its an excuse not to act against what is the enemy of light and love that is the real demon working from within.

That is true if there is a clear evidence that one religion is right as against the rest. My problem is that I am (and I think many others are too) not sure which one(s) is/are absolutely correct or righteous and which are wrong or evil since there is not much evidence to prove that except the words written by ancient people. (If there were clear evidence we will probably just have just one religion.) It is just matter of choice that we chose to believe one while rejecting others, but on the final analysis, there is not much evidence to prove one is true as against all the others. We just chose to take the words of one religion against all the others, which can be right or wrong. Actually, I'm not sure whether it is the Christians, Muslims, or Hindus that are right because simply put, it's the words of one against the others. Not only that, in many case your religious beliefs are dictated by where you were born and you haven't got much choice there. If you were born in Arab countries, you'd almost surely be a Muslim; if Tibet, a Buddhist; if England, an atheist like Dark Lord Al (just kiddin'); etc.

So since in my own opinion, there is not much evidence to prove which is the true religion, I decided to see every good or positive side of every religion as true and on this, I believe all religion can unite - that is, unite in goodness. (I must be dreaming again.) And secondly, I also decided my conscience to dictate my belief in what might be true and good - I never felt good when I attacked other's religious beliefs. They say conscience is God's voice in your heart and they are right! That's why I decided to stop attacking the religious beliefs of other people. Actually, whether people believe me or not, I've felt some people here feeling that way when they went into extreme attack against some religion because they sent out negative aura of guilt while doing that (try it, Andre, I think you can sense that on some people here if you're sensitive enough). What disturbs me is that without them knowing, they have probably paid for it somehow, somewhere, because 'you reap what you sow.' That's why I chose emphasize the positive. Though sometimes evil can disguise as good, ultimately they will be exposed, and I believe at least in the end, we can't go wrong by keeping on going and going for the positive... Just my thought...

Allowance has it limits though Pacfan because it becomes complacency.

If someone has the intent to attack another whether it is physically ,mentally,or spiritually they are in effect attacking themselves ,you are right.

Try it Andre? Do you think I bag others religions? Im not sure maybe i do ?
You may think it is only other belifes that are at stake here?

Mate,I dont practice any religion so mine cant be the only right one, either!
I dont have one at all .

Religion; I think Ive always stated that its my belief that the truth can be found hidden in most of them.I love what can be found in all of them when searching,Im sure I've said that!

I have a Muslum that works for me, I give him the prayer times to face Mecca. We are like brothers there is never a problem and we are equals.
I work along side others too,many Catholics and if the conversation comes up as it has here on numerous occasions they dont take it like an attack on them personally if I state historic facts and where it has all stemmed from and that I belive it is false teaching.

I admit I have said : the Catholic Church that has been born out of the Roman Church is founded on murder ,Greed ,power over their own flocks through fear and is money generated.

That isnt exactly attacking peoples religious belifes although it is attacking their direction I suppose.

There are good people in the Catholic religion but it wont stop me stating that its higher echelons harbour pedaphilles and sucks off others energies and money, change the sacred scriptures to suit its self to keep power over more people etc.

Im all for all Religions being the stepping stone to peoples own growth and enlightenment and draw from them what you will.


It is when they break the cardinal rule of stealing others free will and removing others power so that they rule over people via fear and keep those people suppressed is when you can speak up against it.

Sorry if you or others take offence at that and maybe consider it an attack.

Read Revelations,the Holy Bibles last book,it attacks the Catholic religion and those dressed in scarlet with gold on their altars. It attacks the Anti Christ it doesnt attack the masses that follow, it warns them about where they are situated.

I mean to say just look at it with both eyes wide open and the truth is there; Pedophillia is rife within the clergy,Thousands of children world wide suffering,then they continue to teach people to seek God outside of themselves and only in fear, which leads people towards their own spiritual demise!
THe Christian churches have given in to them and also hold the sabbath on the wrong day! Is it wrong to warn the practitioners?

Why should I be complacent about a group that uses the name of my God to go against what all of the brother hood of light stands for?

They do some good physically with money etc, but only right out in the face of public funding. But they have to becuase there really are nice people amongst them, look at the Sisters of mercy etc,they serve.

It is like if someone was running a project that your own father started, except they changed all his rules to suit themselves,even the rules your Father warned you about in his own bible that they would change and cause millions to turn away;
Then they continued using your own fathers and your own brothers name to continue to do it.
Should we be quiet and let it continue now that the time has come that they can no longer burn you and your entire families to the ground for speaking the truth about them?

Should we still remain quiet about what they continue to do for their own world power and domination over other religions?


If you see a train full of people who a belive they are heading for home but you know that the bridge is out; what do you do Pac fan?


Do you go home? Do you say to yourself: "Oh but thats what they belive in, its what they practice, let it be ,hey, I am at peace with it."

I think I have every right to stand up for our own and by our own I mean all the innocent people it can take down with it.

Questions raised on facts are not attacks. They are not even personal judgments, they dont have any running affects back to me as you insinuate because I dont judge people,I judge only the sin, so that my love for all is not diminished in any way.
I actually dont feel good or bad; but I know my own works or deeds and they dont just magically happen by me being complacent and at peace and letting others starve or walk the reverse way to where life abounds.

In Religions : Some people are lead ,some people are shoved,some people choose.

It is sad; two of those types you can't help until their own course has been completley run. One out of those three groups you can help and you must try because they are being held there or pushed along by fear and fear is the reverse to love.

[Trainer Monkey]

He's got a point there. One thing about religion I've noticed is that cultural influence on it is more stronger than vice versa. I think it should be the other way around. On this point, most religion behave more or less the same. One good example: we condemn jihad but they say those radicals misinterpreted the true meaning of that principle. Christians also had their holy wars in their early years. Clearly, it the level of cultural development that determines how religious scriptures are interpreted and how their adherents act - the more developed their culture is, the more gentle and compassionate they become. (I've got a feeling you will disagree with me again, LOL)

You're right, I disagree vehemently with that statement. What do you mean by cultural development and how do you judge it? Are you somehow implying that modern Christians are somehow more evolved than radical Muslims? Because that is a ludicrous statement that ignore a myriad of factors.

It's got nothing to do with evolution but certainly the Western World has seen a number of important developments in thought, philosophy,sociological and political ideas etc.

For example much of our thought foundations are based on the Classical world with ideas about democracy, an exploration of science and logical ideas. Plus think about all the religious and socialogical revolutions the West has had, Lutherism, Marxism, the renaissance, the philosophies of Kant, Hegel, Descarte's etc. So much has happened in Europe over the past few hundred years and we've developed better ways of living, more fair, less warlike, embracing capitalism and basing our lives on economics rather than religion.

Meanwhile the Arab world has just kind of stayed in the desert pretty much in isolation and with only one book.

They are completely fucking backwards by any standard you wish to apply.

I mean even if you say how can we compare, and who is to say what is right you'd have a hard time demonstrating any parts of Arab life where you could say they perform better than the western world.

I mean the status of woman, the health and wealth of the people, the personal freedoms, the infastructure, the great monuments and technological innovations, the cultural outpouring and worthy achievements. There is simply nothing that the Arab world does that is better than the West.

Not really
Egypt and Iran (even if we dont like who we elect) have participatory republics(lets not fool ourselves in to thinking we live in Democracies,we live in Republics) and as often as not,it was our great enlightened Western Money that has quashed any other attempts at participatory Republics in the region because in our little dance with the Ruskies Dictatorships were an easier solution.
Who propped up the Shah in quelling a Republic movement
That would be us
Who installed Saddaam and provided him with all his toys
Us again
Lebanon
Us yet again
Who went to war to re-install the Emir of Kuwait
Us yet again again
If you keep putting your fingers in mousetraps,expect it to close on them soon as later

[pacfan]

Allowance has it limits though Pacfan because it becomes complacency.

If someone has the intent to attack another whether it is physically ,mentally,or spiritually they are in effect attacking themselves ,you are right.

Try it Andre? Do you think I bag others religions? Im not sure maybe i do ?
You may think it is only other belifes that are at stake here?

Mate,I dont practice any religion so mine cant be the only right one, either!
I dont have one at all .

Religion; I think Ive always stated that its my belief that the truth can be found hidden in most of them.I love what can be found in all of them when searching,Im sure I've said that!

I have a Muslum that works for me, I give him the prayer times to face Mecca. We are like brothers there is never a problem and we are equals.
I work along side others too,many Catholics and if the conversation comes up as it has here on numerous occasions they dont take it like an attack on them personally if I state historic facts and where it has all stemmed from and that I belive it is false teaching.

I admit I have said : the Catholic Church that has been born out of the Roman Church is founded on murder ,Greed ,power over their own flocks through fear and is money generated.

That isnt exactly attacking peoples religious belifes although it is attacking their direction I suppose.

There are good people in the Catholic religion but it wont stop me stating that its higher echelons harbour pedaphilles and sucks off others energies and money, change the sacred scriptures to suit its self to keep power over more people etc.

Im all for all Religions being the stepping stone to peoples own growth and enlightenment and draw from them what you will.


It is when they break the cardinal rule of stealing others free will and removing others power so that they rule over people via fear and keep those people suppressed is when you can speak up against it.

Sorry if you or others take offence at that and maybe consider it an attack.

Read Revelations,the Holy Bibles last book,it attacks the Catholic religion and those dressed in scarlet with gold on their altars. It attacks the Anti Christ it doesnt attack the masses that follow, it warns them about where they are situated.

I mean to say just look at it with both eyes wide open and the truth is there; Pedophillia is rife within the clergy,Thousands of children world wide suffering,then they continue to teach people to seek God outside of themselves and only in fear, which leads people towards their own spiritual demise!
THe Christian churches have given in to them and also hold the sabbath on the wrong day! Is it wrong to warn the practitioners?

Why should I be complacent about a group that uses the name of my God to go against what all of the brother hood of light stands for?

They do some good physically with money etc, but only right out in the face of public funding. But they have to becuase there really are nice people amongst them, look at the Sisters of mercy etc,they serve.

It is like if someone was running a project that your own father started, except they changed all his rules to suit themselves,even the rules your Father warned you about in his own bible that they would change and cause millions to turn away;
Then they continued using your own fathers and your own brothers name to continue to do it.
Should we be quiet and let it continue now that the time has come that they can no longer burn you and your entire families to the ground for speaking the truth about them?

Should we still remain quiet about what they continue to do for their own world power and domination over other religions?


If you see a train full of people who a belive they are heading for home but you know that the bridge is out; what do you do Pac fan?


Do you go home? Do you say to yourself: "Oh but thats what they belive in, its what they practice, let it be ,hey, I am at peace with it."

I think I have every right to stand up for our own and by our own I mean all the innocent people it can take down with it.

Questions raised on facts are not attacks. They are not even personal judgments, they dont have any running affects back to me as you insinuate because I dont judge people,I judge only the sin, so that my love for all is not diminished in any way.
I actually dont feel good or bad; but I know my own works or deeds and they dont just magically happen by me being complacent and at peace and letting others starve or walk the reverse way to where life abounds.

In Religions : Some people are lead ,some people are shoved,some people choose.

It is sad; two of those types you can't help until their own course has been completley run. One out of those three groups you can help and you must try because they are being held there or pushed along by fear and fear is the reverse to love.

What you say is correct. But I'm speaking of myself (and perhaps some others). My problem is that I'm not sure which religion and scriptures are true and which are not. As far as I know, they were written by ancient people and to me, at least, there's not much evidence which ones are true and which ones are not, and it's more like takings one's word against the others. And further, it has been made more confusing by propanganda from all sides these days. If the truth were crystal clear to me, I'd probably be doing what you do. But again, it's not, as far as I'm concerned. That's why I decided not to takes chances but go on focusing, but not necessarily turning blind eyes on, the positive of all religion, except of course those obviously incorrect beliefs or behaviors like blasting innocent people with explosives in the name of their religion. Besides, have you seen a sage who's grumpy?

(PS, about the 'try it' part, I just meant try feeling the aura (or energy) of people who post here, especially those who post extremely negative, and sometimes downright demeaning, comments about some religion or religious figures (of course I didn't mean you because you're comments are always reasonable). They sent out negative energies that you can feel (actually it's no big deal) if you are sensitive enough.)

[pacfan]

That basis for morality always leads to complete shitness and the eventual collapse of every civilisation that has gone before us.

The Western world is now just going the way of Ancient Rome, it won't last much longer.

I agree to that to some extent. IMO the western civilization has been treading the way of decadence over the past years by letting money and materialism rule over their lives, coupled with unbriddled freedom to do and say what they please. Their frenzied chase for profits and material wealth has made them forget the most important part of their lives - their hearts, from where all spiritual advancement comes. And at the more subtle level, they've lost the meaning of the word 'respect'. The crisis we're seeing now is the direct result of that folly. But IMO, some good will probably come out of this crisis, which I believe is just a part of the 'cleansing process' that the world must undergo ocassionally to purify itself from spiritual decay. It is a time for reflection, for soul-searching to see where they have gone astray...

I'm really impressed with your knowledge of the Bible Bilbo.

Well to be honest it just makes me all the more guilty when I download my favourite dogging and teeny bukkake dvd's.

That's not a sin...

...as long as you don't pay for them...

[Andre]

You're right, I disagree vehemently with that statement. What do you mean by cultural development and how do you judge it? Are you somehow implying that modern Christians are somehow more evolved than radical Muslims? Because that is a ludicrous statement that ignore a myriad of factors.

It's got nothing to do with evolution but certainly the Western World has seen a number of important developments in thought, philosophy,sociological and political ideas etc.

For example much of our thought foundations are based on the Classical world with ideas about democracy, an exploration of science and logical ideas. Plus think about all the religious and socialogical revolutions the West has had, Lutherism, Marxism, the renaissance, the philosophies of Kant, Hegel, Descarte's etc. So much has happened in Europe over the past few hundred years and we've developed better ways of living, more fair, less warlike, embracing capitalism and basing our lives on economics rather than religion.

Meanwhile the Arab world has just kind of stayed in the desert pretty much in isolation and with only one book.

They are completely fucking backwards by any standard you wish to apply.

I mean even if you say how can we compare, and who is to say what is right you'd have a hard time demonstrating any parts of Arab life where you could say they perform better than the western world.

I mean the status of woman, the health and wealth of the people, the personal freedoms, the infastructure, the great monuments and technological innovations, the cultural outpouring and worthy achievements. There is simply nothing that the Arab world does that is better than the West.

Not really
Egypt and Iran (even if we dont like who we elect) have participatory republics(lets not fool ourselves in to thinking we live in Democracies,we live in Republics) and as often as not,it was our great enlightened Western Money that has quashed any other attempts at participatory Republics in the region because in our little dance with the Ruskies Dictatorships were an easier solution.
Who propped up the Shah in quelling a Republic movement
That would be us
Who installed Saddaam and provided him with all his toys
Us again
Lebanon
Us yet again
Who went to war to re-install the Emir of Kuwait
Us yet again again
If you keep putting your fingers in mousetraps,expect it to close on them soon as later

Hey TM ,I expect you have heard The late comedian Bill HIcks talkig about all that stuff?
I love that cynical look he took on everything.
When he says about Bush senoir saying "Yeah well we are going in cause "they have weapons of mass destruction!"
Reporter : "How do you know?
"Ummm we sold it to them."
"Thats our old stuff.. we got better than that now."

Its like the gunslinger out of the movie Shane where he has this sparkling new weapon and he throws that old gun down at the farm boys feet..
"PICK UP THE GUN"

Farmer; "I dont wanna pick up the gun mister"

BUSH "pick up the gun!"

[Andre]

Allowance has it limits though Pacfan because it becomes complacency.

If someone has the intent to attack another whether it is physically ,mentally,or spiritually they are in effect attacking themselves ,you are right.

Try it Andre? Do you think I bag others religions? Im not sure maybe i do ?
You may think it is only other belifes that are at stake here?

Mate,I dont practice any religion so mine cant be the only right one, either!
I dont have one at all .

Religion; I think Ive always stated that its my belief that the truth can be found hidden in most of them.I love what can be found in all of them when searching,Im sure I've said that!

I have a Muslum that works for me, I give him the prayer times to face Mecca. We are like brothers there is never a problem and we are equals.
I work along side others too,many Catholics and if the conversation comes up as it has here on numerous occasions they dont take it like an attack on them personally if I state historic facts and where it has all stemmed from and that I belive it is false teaching.

I admit I have said : the Catholic Church that has been born out of the Roman Church is founded on murder ,Greed ,power over their own flocks through fear and is money generated.

That isnt exactly attacking peoples religious belifes although it is attacking their direction I suppose.

There are good people in the Catholic religion but it wont stop me stating that its higher echelons harbour pedaphilles and sucks off others energies and money, change the sacred scriptures to suit its self to keep power over more people etc.

Im all for all Religions being the stepping stone to peoples own growth and enlightenment and draw from them what you will.


It is when they break the cardinal rule of stealing others free will and removing others power so that they rule over people via fear and keep those people suppressed is when you can speak up against it.

Sorry if you or others take offence at that and maybe consider it an attack.

Read Revelations,the Holy Bibles last book,it attacks the Catholic religion and those dressed in scarlet with gold on their altars. It attacks the Anti Christ it doesnt attack the masses that follow, it warns them about where they are situated.

I mean to say just look at it with both eyes wide open and the truth is there; Pedophillia is rife within the clergy,Thousands of children world wide suffering,then they continue to teach people to seek God outside of themselves and only in fear, which leads people towards their own spiritual demise!
THe Christian churches have given in to them and also hold the sabbath on the wrong day! Is it wrong to warn the practitioners?

Why should I be complacent about a group that uses the name of my God to go against what all of the brother hood of light stands for?

They do some good physically with money etc, but only right out in the face of public funding. But they have to becuase there really are nice people amongst them, look at the Sisters of mercy etc,they serve.

It is like if someone was running a project that your own father started, except they changed all his rules to suit themselves,even the rules your Father warned you about in his own bible that they would change and cause millions to turn away;
Then they continued using your own fathers and your own brothers name to continue to do it.
Should we be quiet and let it continue now that the time has come that they can no longer burn you and your entire families to the ground for speaking the truth about them?

Should we still remain quiet about what they continue to do for their own world power and domination over other religions?


If you see a train full of people who a belive they are heading for home but you know that the bridge is out; what do you do Pac fan?


Do you go home? Do you say to yourself: "Oh but thats what they belive in, its what they practice, let it be ,hey, I am at peace with it."

I think I have every right to stand up for our own and by our own I mean all the innocent people it can take down with it.

Questions raised on facts are not attacks. They are not even personal judgments, they dont have any running affects back to me as you insinuate because I dont judge people,I judge only the sin, so that my love for all is not diminished in any way.
I actually dont feel good or bad; but I know my own works or deeds and they dont just magically happen by me being complacent and at peace and letting others starve or walk the reverse way to where life abounds.

In Religions : Some people are lead ,some people are shoved,some people choose.

It is sad; two of those types you can't help until their own course has been completley run. One out of those three groups you can help and you must try because they are being held there or pushed along by fear and fear is the reverse to love.

What you say is correct. But I'm speaking of myself (and perhaps some others). My problem is that I'm not sure which religion and scriptures are true and which are not. As far as I know, they were written by ancient people and to me, at least, there's not much evidence which ones are true and which ones are not, and it's more like takings one's word against the others. And further, it has been made more confusing by propanganda from all sides these days. If the truth were crystal clear to me, I'd probably be doing what you do. But again, it's not, as far as I'm concerned. That's why I decided not to takes chances but go on focusing, but not necessarily turning blind eyes on, the positive of all religion, except of course those obviously incorrect beliefs or behaviors like blasting innocent people with explosives in the name of their religion. Besides, have you seen a sage who's grumpy?

(PS, about the 'try it' part, I just meant try feeling the aura (or energy) of people who post here, especially those who post extremely negative, and sometimes downright demeaning, comments about some religion or religious figures (of course I didn't mean you because you're comments are always reasonable). They sent out negative energies that you can feel (actually it's no big deal) if you are sensitive enough.)

I honestly dont think there is one mate ,I dont think you can say this right that is wrong.I know for a fact God is so much larger than any one religion too.
You can run a thousand miles from yourself or a religion dig yourself into the darkest gloom and when all is quiet and you give yourself back your time and you look within the creator is still there backing your every move.

But you can tell a religion by their works and the ones who stand on the street corners proclaiming their works have their reward so to speak.
(because they do it for recognition and power or money they receive from others for doing it).

As you say the bombing of innocents is an obvious one too.
But on the other hand my country Australia, England and the United States have just done exactly that in the name of freedom.
We have destroyed the lives of innocent men women and children.
We state Freedom they state Gihad.No difference they are all excuses for old men to send young men to their deaths cause they are all caught up in the I'm right your wrong syndrome: Which is actually worse for them in the big picture of their own evolution of spirit than what they do physically to themselves and others trying to prove it.

You Pac fan;I think and feel have chosen an amazing route to live in this life.
I must say that it is a hard road that your higher spirit has chosen with you. But the job you both seek is yours for the taking at the end of this route,I'm sure its a done thing bro.

I must say to be under the pressure that you are under to have to live on edge and guard and yet stay unattached and at peace and happy is something that one couldn't do instantly even by total acceptance;there is much more to it.

You have obviously trained and grown and evolved into the realm you have mastered within your surroundings. (you may think on some level that is by circumstance) but I know that you know.
I dont know why ,but for whatever reason,I think you have it sewn up mate;if its a job as High guard to the gates of heaven I think you've got it.

The other day you said about years of training and meditation has allowed you reach a certain point.

I said for Diz,maybe he doesnt need years maybe he can reach his way instantly if he simply accepts his own way.

I just want to say that wasn't a blight on your path or what you have accomplished in any way either.
There are a thousand thousand ways as you know and like religions they are all choices, sometimes ones made prior to our arrival here.
Some people are born more enlightened than we can ever hope to become in one life time but they too have made a choice to serve it one way.
As you know if any one actually thinks they have reached the pinnacle of their existance they just took two steps away from their own next lesson.
And in regards to my comments always being always reasonable! No they arent; Im as big a horses ass as the next bloke specially when prodded. :-)

[pacfan]

You know, Andre, I think of all the people here, you are perhaps the only one who needs no prodding. I believe that as much possible, one should let himself find his way, The way, and you are the only one here spiritually mature enough to do that on your own. That's why I've decided not to press myself on you as I do onto others (with other's I have no choice because they are spiritually not mature enough, and need guidance). Besides, I don't prod anyone because they're no horses.