Another Slight Against Christ

[ICB]

I haven't understood a word of what anyone has been trying to say in this thread, but then again religion was never my strong point. When i was given a bible at school it went in the trash shortly after.

[Kev]

While we are at it considering the heading and all,this should be of interest too.http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=2aW2N4...eature=related

Well it shouldn't be banned but it was a load of uneducated shit.

It is well known that these most of these 'other Jesus' figures derive not from ancient history but the writings of the modern poet and fake Egyptologist Gerald Massey, basically the Dan Brown of his era.

None of his rantings had any basis in historical fact.

He ''taught himself' to decipher the hieroglyphics and just happened to be a practicing pagan druid, in fact the chief of the druid order. He teamed up with some comparative religion scholar to try and link Christiantity to his form of druidic paganism, his works are completely disregarded as having any historical credibility whatsoever.

Regarding Horus his father was Osiris. He was murdered and his Goddess wife put him back together again. She couldn't find his cock so she fashioned him another one and then Horus was born, it's really stretching the imagination to say that was a virgin birth.

There was no star that heralded Horus birth outside of Masseys poems and he never had 12 disciples. He was actually served by some demi Gods, I think about 5 or so that followed him into battle, nothing whatsoever to do with Christ's 12 disciples.

Finally he killed by a scorpian bite not crucified.

It makes me laugh that people will jump to believe any crackpot claims if they diss Christianity even though none of that video had credibility whatsoever.

Just do a google on Gerald Massey and you'll see

Thats good, you should write that in the comments section next to the vid.

Honestly I don't care enough, it seems that there is a huge percentage of people who will just jump on anything that attempts to criticise or disprove the Bible in some way. If it says something negative then these people will immediately accept and embrace it as fact just so they can feel that the Bible has been debunked and their mission is acomplished.

That's probably the lamest anti Christian video I've seen so far though, I mean not one shred of it had any basis in reality or historical fact.

If you are interested though Andre you should check it out for yourself as it's laughable how absurd those claims were, I mean seriously presenting as historical fact the poems and writings of a modern day pagan druid who taught himself to decipher the hieroglyphics of ancient Egypt

There's not a single Egyptologist or ancient historian who has ever taken any of Massey's claims seriously in the 100 years or so since he made them but a few crackpots in the internet age have latched onto them and tried to make them into something.

They make Graham Hancock look like a serious researcher.

[brucelee]

The real enemy of God mankind and Christ consiousness...

666 and the titles of the Pope

Pretty much sealed and dried eh?

Considering they have changed all Gods laws and scriptures to suit themselves and their rule over us all,including all I mentioned in the other post and they actually have more pedaphilles per head per capita than any other known group.
Its pretty clear who the enemy is ,they trully are the Anti Christ.

I wholeheartedly agree with you on this Andre. I've known who is the antiChrist and I pity these people who are blindly following its doctrines.

Anyway, the Bible had predicted about it already so it must come to pass.

[Youngblood]

[Andre]

Well it shouldn't be banned but it was a load of uneducated shit.

It is well known that these most of these 'other Jesus' figures derive not from ancient history but the writings of the modern poet and fake Egyptologist Gerald Massey, basically the Dan Brown of his era.

None of his rantings had any basis in historical fact.

He ''taught himself' to decipher the hieroglyphics and just happened to be a practicing pagan druid, in fact the chief of the druid order. He teamed up with some comparative religion scholar to try and link Christiantity to his form of druidic paganism, his works are completely disregarded as having any historical credibility whatsoever.

Regarding Horus his father was Osiris. He was murdered and his Goddess wife put him back together again. She couldn't find his cock so she fashioned him another one and then Horus was born, it's really stretching the imagination to say that was a virgin birth.

There was no star that heralded Horus birth outside of Masseys poems and he never had 12 disciples. He was actually served by some demi Gods, I think about 5 or so that followed him into battle, nothing whatsoever to do with Christ's 12 disciples.

Finally he killed by a scorpian bite not crucified.

It makes me laugh that people will jump to believe any crackpot claims if they diss Christianity even though none of that video had credibility whatsoever.

Just do a google on Gerald Massey and you'll see

Thats good, you should write that in the comments section next to the vid.

Honestly I don't care enough, it seems that there is a huge percentage of people who will just jump on anything that attempts to criticise or disprove the Bible in some way. If it says something negative then these people will immediately accept and embrace it as fact just so they can feel that the Bible has been debunked and their mission is acomplished.

That's probably the lamest anti Christian video I've seen so far though, I mean not one shred of it had any basis in reality or historical fact.

If you are interested though Andre you should check it out for yourself as it's laughable how absurd those claims were, I mean seriously presenting as historical fact the poems and writings of a modern day pagan druid who taught himself to decipher the hieroglyphics of ancient Egypt

There's not a single Egyptologist or ancient historian who has ever taken any of Massey's claims seriously in the 100 years or so since he made them but a few crackpots in the internet age have latched onto them and tried to make them into something.

They make Graham Hancock look like a serious researcher.

Ive not heard of him before yesterday.fitted the thread well though.

Found some more stuff in a forum too but even more way out.

I think the Greek story is for real though isn't it?
I have heard before though from a few different people that the same story line is from another previous time in Greek mythology is that right?
Is there a site around that attacks Masseys stuff with facts i'd be interested for sure.
i only found old stuff on the guyafter you mentioned him nothing new really.

[Kev]

Thats good, you should write that in the comments section next to the vid.

Honestly I don't care enough, it seems that there is a huge percentage of people who will just jump on anything that attempts to criticise or disprove the Bible in some way. If it says something negative then these people will immediately accept and embrace it as fact just so they can feel that the Bible has been debunked and their mission is acomplished.

That's probably the lamest anti Christian video I've seen so far though, I mean not one shred of it had any basis in reality or historical fact.

If you are interested though Andre you should check it out for yourself as it's laughable how absurd those claims were, I mean seriously presenting as historical fact the poems and writings of a modern day pagan druid who taught himself to decipher the hieroglyphics of ancient Egypt

There's not a single Egyptologist or ancient historian who has ever taken any of Massey's claims seriously in the 100 years or so since he made them but a few crackpots in the internet age have latched onto them and tried to make them into something.

They make Graham Hancock look like a serious researcher.

Ive not heard of him before yesterday.fitted the thread well though.

Found some more stuff in a forum too but even more way out.

I think the Greek story is for real though isn't it?
I have heard before though from a few different people that the same story line is from another previous time in Greek mythology is that right?
Is there a site around that attacks Masseys stuff with facts i'd be interested for sure.
i only found old stuff on the guyafter you mentioned him nothing new really.

Probably not a site devoted to attacking him as he's simply not taken seriously by by any branch of academia and hasn't been in the 100 or years since he published his first book.

It's like asking if there are any sites that disprove the claims of David Icke!

As for whether there are other virgin births in the myth's of other civilisations, the answer is not really.

There are many legends of gods or heroic deities who had miraculous births but there wern't virgin births. The video says for example that mithras was born of a virgin. That is completely untrue, it was Joseph Campbell who likened the birth of Mithras to the birth of Christ. However it's stretching the story to ridiculous lengths. Mithras was created out of solid rock, hewn and born as an adult so technically you could say he was born of a virgin as he didn't have a father but it's really stretching things to say that those two forms of birth are evenly remotely similar.

People in this day and age also have no understanding of the culture of ancient Israel and assume that people could just make up anything and people would believe it.

To have a child outside of wedlock in ancient Israel was a mortal sin, punishable by death. The parent's of the women who got pregnant would usually be shunned as they had failed to protect their daughter's innocence and there would have been a tremendous social stigma attached to any child born a bastard.

Therefore to claim that Mary was an unmarried mother of Jesus was a tremendously risky thing for the Gospel writers to do, as it exposed the whole religion of Christianity to ridicule and contempt.

To have a bastard as your 'saviour' would have been considered a laughable and disgusting thing, and exposed his followers to mockery, ridicule and worse.

To then compound that by claiming that he was a born of a virgin was to invite both the Jewish and Hellenistic worlds to literally rain down scorn, laughter, mockery and humiliation.

It was as absurd a claim then as it was now, but even more so becuase of the stigma associated with unmarried mothers. The idea that God's own Son would be born a bastard would have been abhorrent to the Jews of the first century AD.

So the idea that the early Christians just looked around and found some other mythical figure and decided to copy and paste his birth details is just ridiculous.

I can't remember the other names mentioned on the video, I may have another watch later, but there is no evidence whatsoever, supported by any credible historians, arhaeologists or theologians that suggests that Christianity got all of it's ideas from Pagan sources.

The greatest influence on Christianity, obviously was Judaism.

All of the details of Jesus' birth, life, mission, major life events, death and resurrection are to be found within the pages of the Old Testament.

In fact the entire Old Testament was a foreshadowing of God's redemptive plan of salvation through Christ, from Abraham being asked to sacrifice his son Isaac right through to the prophectic words of Isiah.

If you want to know where the Gospel writers got the idea for a virgin birth then look to the Old Testament and Isiah 7:14 'Behold, 'A Virgin shall shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us'

We know from the Dead Sea Scrolls that Isiah was both already written and widespread use long before the brith of Christ.

In fact the Gospel writers are at pains to point out where Jesus fufilled all the Old Testament prophecies.

The Bible, if actually read, is an extraordiary book and anyone who reads it from start to finish will have literally dozens of 'Oh my fucking God I can't believe that you HAVE to be shitting me!' type moments.

It's absolutely amazing, all of the prophecies in the Old Testament that explicitly detail Christ's birth, life and mission, the history of nations and empires, the immensely detailed history and future prediticions regarding Isreal, God' own special people and prophecies regarding our own times and that are being fufilled as we speak.

There will always be those who just don't want to believe and so will unquestionally and immediately latch on to anything that discredits it.

As the apostle Paul warned (2 Tim. 4:3) The time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear'.

[RozzySean]

Honestly I don't care enough, it seems that there is a huge percentage of people who will just jump on anything that attempts to criticise or disprove the Bible in some way. If it says something negative then these people will immediately accept and embrace it as fact just so they can feel that the Bible has been debunked and their mission is acomplished.

That's probably the lamest anti Christian video I've seen so far though, I mean not one shred of it had any basis in reality or historical fact.

If you are interested though Andre you should check it out for yourself as it's laughable how absurd those claims were, I mean seriously presenting as historical fact the poems and writings of a modern day pagan druid who taught himself to decipher the hieroglyphics of ancient Egypt

There's not a single Egyptologist or ancient historian who has ever taken any of Massey's claims seriously in the 100 years or so since he made them but a few crackpots in the internet age have latched onto them and tried to make them into something.

They make Graham Hancock look like a serious researcher.

Ive not heard of him before yesterday.fitted the thread well though.

Found some more stuff in a forum too but even more way out.

I think the Greek story is for real though isn't it?
I have heard before though from a few different people that the same story line is from another previous time in Greek mythology is that right?
Is there a site around that attacks Masseys stuff with facts i'd be interested for sure.
i only found old stuff on the guyafter you mentioned him nothing new really.

Probably not a site devoted to attacking him as he's simply not taken seriously by by any branch of academia and hasn't been in the 100 or years since he published his first book.

It's like asking if there are any sites that disprove the claims of David Icke!

As for whether there are other virgin births in the myth's of other civilisations, the answer is not really.

There are many legends of gods or heroic deities who had miraculous births but there wern't virgin births. The video says for example that mithras was born of a virgin. That is completely untrue, it was Joseph Campbell who likened the birth of Mithras to the birth of Christ. However it's stretching the story to ridiculous lengths. Mithras was created out of solid rock, hewn and born as an adult so technically you could say he was born of a virgin as he didn't have a father but it's really stretching things to say that those two forms of birth are evenly remotely similar.

People in this day and age also have no understanding of the culture of ancient Israel and assume that people could just make up anything and people would believe it.

To have a child outside of wedlock in ancient Israel was a mortal sin, punishable by death. The parent's of the women who got pregnant would usually be shunned as they had failed to protect their daughter's innocence and there would have been a tremendous social stigma attached to any child born a bastard.

Therefore to claim that Mary was an unmarried mother of Jesus was a tremendously risky thing for the Gospel writers to do, as it exposed the whole religion of Christianity to ridicule and contempt.

To have a bastard as your 'saviour' would have been considered a laughable and disgusting thing, and exposed his followers to mockery, ridicule and worse.

To then compound that by claiming that he was a born of a virgin was to invite both the Jewish and Hellenistic worlds to literally rain down scorn, laughter, mockery and humiliation.

It was as absurd a claim then as it was now, but even more so becuase of the stigma associated with unmarried mothers. The idea that God's own Son would be born a bastard would have been abhorrent to the Jews of the first century AD.

So the idea that the early Christians just looked around and found some other mythical figure and decided to copy and paste his birth details is just ridiculous.

I can't remember the other names mentioned on the video, I may have another watch later, but there is no evidence whatsoever, supported by any credible historians, arhaeologists or theologians that suggests that Christianity got all of it's ideas from Pagan sources.

The greatest influence on Christianity, obviously was Judaism.

All of the details of Jesus' birth, life, mission, major life events, death and resurrection are to be found within the pages of the Old Testament.

In fact the entire Old Testament was a foreshadowing of God's redemptive plan of salvation through Christ, from Abraham being asked to sacrifice his son Isaac right through to the prophectic words of Isiah.

If you want to know where the Gospel writers got the idea for a virgin birth then look to the Old Testament and Isiah 7:14 'Behold, 'A Virgin shall shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us'

We know from the Dead Sea Scrolls that Isiah was both already written and widespread use long before the brith of Christ.

In fact the Gospel writers are at pains to point out where Jesus fufilled all the Old Testament prophecies.

The Bible, if actually read, is an extraordiary book and anyone who reads it from start to finish will have literally dozens of 'Oh my fucking God I can't believe that you HAVE to be shitting me!' type moments.

It's absolutely amazing, all of the prophecies in the Old Testament that explicitly detail Christ's birth, life and mission, the history of nations and empires, the immensely detailed history and future prediticions regarding Isreal, God' own special people and prophecies regarding our own times and that are being fufilled as we speak.

There will always be those who just don't want to believe and so will unquestionally and immediately latch on to anything that discredits it.

As the apostle Paul warned (2 Tim. 4:3) The time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear'.

Isiah 7:14 is a direct and intentional mistranslation from the original Hebrew. In the original Hebrew, it reads, "Behold a young woman will come with child..." There is different word in Hebrew for young woman and virgin. In Hebrew, the verse reads "young woman." Fact.

Jesus actually fulfills ZERO prophecies about what the real Messiah is supposed to do. That's why most Jews in Israel wouldn't buy into the idea that he was the Messiah. Paul took the writings of the prophets, twisted them around, and sold it to non-Jews who didn't know any better. Learn Hebrew and read the originals and it will be much clearer to you.

Paul invented Christianity. Not Jesus. Jesus was a pretty cool dude. He was the worlds first "Reform" Jew and his message is revolutionary and powerful. He was a great teacher and Rabbi. It's really too bad Paul and Augustine screwed up his real message.

[Andre]

I dont think the original scriptures were in Hebrew or Greek although a few of the letters of the New testament may well have been.
It seems though ,if you look into the Aramiac direct translations the inconsistanties within the bible are alot more self explanatory and dont need any excuses to make them sound viable.

For instance the latter Christian verses even can be read in the way that to practice Astrology is of the devils works. To look into the how is a sin, so only look at why....and this is why!.

So they burned people and books through out history for doing it .That is of the devil and of the separation through knowledge, it is not of GOD.

Blind obedience doesn't sit right, The Creator doesnt want robots or he would have made robots.

That is the whole reason for Free will choices being the first and foremost decree from above when concerning where we are and what we have to work with.

The judgment with the fear and the rules to obey or you will be fried are all from the dualistic or the tree of knowledge as is war and the thoughts that there exists within us all; a mentality of them and us.

None of the above are not from the original the seed of life which forms the egg of life which forms the tree of life, branch that we were originally told to stick with.

The seed was God /love, it started there it ends there.
The other stuff is by agreement and by us seeking the knowledge from the other fruit so to speak. It has nothing to do with apples/it is knowledge.

It is a separate reality from the one;Its a false reality ad it issupported here by physicality and 3d; It purpetualizes seperation from the ONE and unfortunatley that book now does it too, because men got to it and removed most of the one truth.
Its there, but its not a continual thread.
Yeshua said I am the way, I stand at the door and if anyone opens I will sup with him. (You know the verse) and he pointed directly at God for his whole walk through his life and pointed at the One way,so removing us from the old laws and separation through love and forgivness (which is the way).

Now everyone points to Jesus instead ,and God is second place once again.

The door and the way has now been placed in between most people and the One as being the One.

The Roman church has control of millions through exactly that and the fear factor as well.

Yeshuas massage was In Aramiac; Love; first, like a child, don't look outside of yourself for God or over there for heaven,it is within.
Go within not without.
Return to the One it has always been there awaiting your rememberance and acceptance. That way is Christ consiuossness
Thats the truth.

[Kev]

Ive not heard of him before yesterday.fitted the thread well though.

Found some more stuff in a forum too but even more way out.

I think the Greek story is for real though isn't it?
I have heard before though from a few different people that the same story line is from another previous time in Greek mythology is that right?
Is there a site around that attacks Masseys stuff with facts i'd be interested for sure.
i only found old stuff on the guyafter you mentioned him nothing new really.

Probably not a site devoted to attacking him as he's simply not taken seriously by by any branch of academia and hasn't been in the 100 or years since he published his first book.

It's like asking if there are any sites that disprove the claims of David Icke!

As for whether there are other virgin births in the myth's of other civilisations, the answer is not really.

There are many legends of gods or heroic deities who had miraculous births but there wern't virgin births. The video says for example that mithras was born of a virgin. That is completely untrue, it was Joseph Campbell who likened the birth of Mithras to the birth of Christ. However it's stretching the story to ridiculous lengths. Mithras was created out of solid rock, hewn and born as an adult so technically you could say he was born of a virgin as he didn't have a father but it's really stretching things to say that those two forms of birth are evenly remotely similar.

People in this day and age also have no understanding of the culture of ancient Israel and assume that people could just make up anything and people would believe it.

To have a child outside of wedlock in ancient Israel was a mortal sin, punishable by death. The parent's of the women who got pregnant would usually be shunned as they had failed to protect their daughter's innocence and there would have been a tremendous social stigma attached to any child born a bastard.

Therefore to claim that Mary was an unmarried mother of Jesus was a tremendously risky thing for the Gospel writers to do, as it exposed the whole religion of Christianity to ridicule and contempt.

To have a bastard as your 'saviour' would have been considered a laughable and disgusting thing, and exposed his followers to mockery, ridicule and worse.

To then compound that by claiming that he was a born of a virgin was to invite both the Jewish and Hellenistic worlds to literally rain down scorn, laughter, mockery and humiliation.

It was as absurd a claim then as it was now, but even more so becuase of the stigma associated with unmarried mothers. The idea that God's own Son would be born a bastard would have been abhorrent to the Jews of the first century AD.

So the idea that the early Christians just looked around and found some other mythical figure and decided to copy and paste his birth details is just ridiculous.

I can't remember the other names mentioned on the video, I may have another watch later, but there is no evidence whatsoever, supported by any credible historians, arhaeologists or theologians that suggests that Christianity got all of it's ideas from Pagan sources.

The greatest influence on Christianity, obviously was Judaism.

All of the details of Jesus' birth, life, mission, major life events, death and resurrection are to be found within the pages of the Old Testament.

In fact the entire Old Testament was a foreshadowing of God's redemptive plan of salvation through Christ, from Abraham being asked to sacrifice his son Isaac right through to the prophectic words of Isiah.

If you want to know where the Gospel writers got the idea for a virgin birth then look to the Old Testament and Isiah 7:14 'Behold, 'A Virgin shall shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us'

We know from the Dead Sea Scrolls that Isiah was both already written and widespread use long before the brith of Christ.

In fact the Gospel writers are at pains to point out where Jesus fufilled all the Old Testament prophecies.

The Bible, if actually read, is an extraordiary book and anyone who reads it from start to finish will have literally dozens of 'Oh my fucking God I can't believe that you HAVE to be shitting me!' type moments.

It's absolutely amazing, all of the prophecies in the Old Testament that explicitly detail Christ's birth, life and mission, the history of nations and empires, the immensely detailed history and future prediticions regarding Isreal, God' own special people and prophecies regarding our own times and that are being fufilled as we speak.

There will always be those who just don't want to believe and so will unquestionally and immediately latch on to anything that discredits it.

As the apostle Paul warned (2 Tim. 4:3) The time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear'.

Isiah 7:14 is a direct and intentional mistranslation from the original Hebrew. In the original Hebrew, it reads, "Behold a young woman will come with child..." There is different word in Hebrew for young woman and virgin. In Hebrew, the verse reads "young woman." Fact.

Jesus actually fulfills ZERO prophecies about what the real Messiah is supposed to do. That's why most Jews in Israel wouldn't buy into the idea that he was the Messiah. Paul took the writings of the prophets, twisted them around, and sold it to non-Jews who didn't know any better. Learn Hebrew and read the originals and it will be much clearer to you.

Paul invented Christianity. Not Jesus. Jesus was a pretty cool dude. He was the worlds first "Reform" Jew and his message is revolutionary and powerful. He was a great teacher and Rabbi. It's really too bad Paul and Augustine screwed up his real message.

This really is typical of the bizarre logic of those who try and discredit Christianity.

They see Christ and his mission in every pagan religion and the myths of every ancient civilisation and say that Christianity just stole the ideas from them, yet when it's showed that all of Jesus' mission was blatently prophecised in the Old Testament they say that in every case it meant something else.

We see the same thing in science, we are told the idea of a global flood on a planet 75 percent covered with water is nonsense, and yet now scientists account for the strange canal like features on Mars as being the result of global flooding of the whole planet, and this a planet with no liquid water at all?

If you want to split hairs over this, as I did study this at university, the word 'almah' actually comes from the root word 'alam' which means to 'cover, conceal, protected.' Thus it is clearly a picture of a young, inexperienced and hence virgin girl. The same word is used in Genesis when talking about Rebekah being the young woman drawing water from the well. It is made clear she is explicity clear in that instance that they are referring to a virgin girl.

And your whole argument is redundant anyhow as the Greek Septuagint, the earliest translation of the Hebrew Bible in existence, written at least 200 years before the birth of Christ translates the word 'almah' as virgin clearly and unequivecly attesting to the fact that that was how the word was to be taken.

[RozzySean]

Probably not a site devoted to attacking him as he's simply not taken seriously by by any branch of academia and hasn't been in the 100 or years since he published his first book.

It's like asking if there are any sites that disprove the claims of David Icke!

As for whether there are other virgin births in the myth's of other civilisations, the answer is not really.

There are many legends of gods or heroic deities who had miraculous births but there wern't virgin births. The video says for example that mithras was born of a virgin. That is completely untrue, it was Joseph Campbell who likened the birth of Mithras to the birth of Christ. However it's stretching the story to ridiculous lengths. Mithras was created out of solid rock, hewn and born as an adult so technically you could say he was born of a virgin as he didn't have a father but it's really stretching things to say that those two forms of birth are evenly remotely similar.

People in this day and age also have no understanding of the culture of ancient Israel and assume that people could just make up anything and people would believe it.

To have a child outside of wedlock in ancient Israel was a mortal sin, punishable by death. The parent's of the women who got pregnant would usually be shunned as they had failed to protect their daughter's innocence and there would have been a tremendous social stigma attached to any child born a bastard.

Therefore to claim that Mary was an unmarried mother of Jesus was a tremendously risky thing for the Gospel writers to do, as it exposed the whole religion of Christianity to ridicule and contempt.

To have a bastard as your 'saviour' would have been considered a laughable and disgusting thing, and exposed his followers to mockery, ridicule and worse.

To then compound that by claiming that he was a born of a virgin was to invite both the Jewish and Hellenistic worlds to literally rain down scorn, laughter, mockery and humiliation.

It was as absurd a claim then as it was now, but even more so becuase of the stigma associated with unmarried mothers. The idea that God's own Son would be born a bastard would have been abhorrent to the Jews of the first century AD.

So the idea that the early Christians just looked around and found some other mythical figure and decided to copy and paste his birth details is just ridiculous.

I can't remember the other names mentioned on the video, I may have another watch later, but there is no evidence whatsoever, supported by any credible historians, arhaeologists or theologians that suggests that Christianity got all of it's ideas from Pagan sources.

The greatest influence on Christianity, obviously was Judaism.

All of the details of Jesus' birth, life, mission, major life events, death and resurrection are to be found within the pages of the Old Testament.

In fact the entire Old Testament was a foreshadowing of God's redemptive plan of salvation through Christ, from Abraham being asked to sacrifice his son Isaac right through to the prophectic words of Isiah.

If you want to know where the Gospel writers got the idea for a virgin birth then look to the Old Testament and Isiah 7:14 'Behold, 'A Virgin shall shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us'

We know from the Dead Sea Scrolls that Isiah was both already written and widespread use long before the brith of Christ.

In fact the Gospel writers are at pains to point out where Jesus fufilled all the Old Testament prophecies.

The Bible, if actually read, is an extraordiary book and anyone who reads it from start to finish will have literally dozens of 'Oh my fucking God I can't believe that you HAVE to be shitting me!' type moments.

It's absolutely amazing, all of the prophecies in the Old Testament that explicitly detail Christ's birth, life and mission, the history of nations and empires, the immensely detailed history and future prediticions regarding Isreal, God' own special people and prophecies regarding our own times and that are being fufilled as we speak.

There will always be those who just don't want to believe and so will unquestionally and immediately latch on to anything that discredits it.

As the apostle Paul warned (2 Tim. 4:3) The time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear'.

Isiah 7:14 is a direct and intentional mistranslation from the original Hebrew. In the original Hebrew, it reads, "Behold a young woman will come with child..." There is different word in Hebrew for young woman and virgin. In Hebrew, the verse reads "young woman." Fact.

Jesus actually fulfills ZERO prophecies about what the real Messiah is supposed to do. That's why most Jews in Israel wouldn't buy into the idea that he was the Messiah. Paul took the writings of the prophets, twisted them around, and sold it to non-Jews who didn't know any better. Learn Hebrew and read the originals and it will be much clearer to you.

Paul invented Christianity. Not Jesus. Jesus was a pretty cool dude. He was the worlds first "Reform" Jew and his message is revolutionary and powerful. He was a great teacher and Rabbi. It's really too bad Paul and Augustine screwed up his real message.

This really is typical of the bizarre logic of those who try and discredit Christianity.

They see Christ and his mission in every pagan religion and the myths of every ancient civilisation and say that Christianity just stole the ideas from them, yet when it's showed that all of Jesus' mission was blatently prophecised in the Old Testament they say that in every case it meant something else.

We see the same thing in science, we are told the idea of a global flood on a planet 75 percent covered with water is nonsense, and yet now scientists account for the strange canal like features on Mars as being the result of global flooding of the whole planet, and this a planet with no liquid water at all?

If you want to split hairs over this, as I did study this at university, the word 'almah' actually comes from the root word 'alam' which means to 'cover, conceal, protected.' Thus it is clearly a picture of a young, inexperienced and hence virgin girl. The same word is used in Genesis when talking about Rebekah being the young woman drawing water from the well. It is made clear she is explicity clear in that instance that they are referring to a virgin girl.

And your whole argument is redundant anyhow as the Greek Septuagint, the earliest translation of the Hebrew Bible in existence, written at least 200 years before the birth of Christ translates the word 'almah' as virgin clearly and unequivecly attesting to the fact that that was how the word was to be taken.

That's absolute nonsense that emphasis of the world "almah" is the virginity status of a young woman. It may be somewhat implicit, but drawing that out as the primary meaning is not true to the intent of the word and the verse does not "clearly and unequivecly" attest to a virgin birth. The world means young woman of marriage age, or young woman who is fit for marriage. That's pure prooftexting. So what if the mistranslation happened for Hebrew/Aramaic to Greek instead of Hebrew to English.

Here's a little read on what the messiah really is:

Judaism 101: Moshiach: The Messiah

I could like you to other sites, but I'll you can find them on your own if you are interested different perspectives.

[Kev]

Isiah 7:14 is a direct and intentional mistranslation from the original Hebrew. In the original Hebrew, it reads, "Behold a young woman will come with child..." There is different word in Hebrew for young woman and virgin. In Hebrew, the verse reads "young woman." Fact.

Jesus actually fulfills ZERO prophecies about what the real Messiah is supposed to do. That's why most Jews in Israel wouldn't buy into the idea that he was the Messiah. Paul took the writings of the prophets, twisted them around, and sold it to non-Jews who didn't know any better. Learn Hebrew and read the originals and it will be much clearer to you.

Paul invented Christianity. Not Jesus. Jesus was a pretty cool dude. He was the worlds first "Reform" Jew and his message is revolutionary and powerful. He was a great teacher and Rabbi. It's really too bad Paul and Augustine screwed up his real message.

This really is typical of the bizarre logic of those who try and discredit Christianity.

They see Christ and his mission in every pagan religion and the myths of every ancient civilisation and say that Christianity just stole the ideas from them, yet when it's showed that all of Jesus' mission was blatently prophecised in the Old Testament they say that in every case it meant something else.

We see the same thing in science, we are told the idea of a global flood on a planet 75 percent covered with water is nonsense, and yet now scientists account for the strange canal like features on Mars as being the result of global flooding of the whole planet, and this a planet with no liquid water at all?

If you want to split hairs over this, as I did study this at university, the word 'almah' actually comes from the root word 'alam' which means to 'cover, conceal, protected.' Thus it is clearly a picture of a young, inexperienced and hence virgin girl. The same word is used in Genesis when talking about Rebekah being the young woman drawing water from the well. It is made clear she is explicity clear in that instance that they are referring to a virgin girl.

And your whole argument is redundant anyhow as the Greek Septuagint, the earliest translation of the Hebrew Bible in existence, written at least 200 years before the birth of Christ translates the word 'almah' as virgin clearly and unequivecly attesting to the fact that that was how the word was to be taken.

That's absolute nonsense that emphasis of the world "almah" is the virginity status of a young woman. It may be somewhat implicit, but drawing that out as the primary meaning is not true to the intent of the word and the verse does not "clearly and unequivecly" attest to a virgin birth. The world means young woman of marriage age, or young woman who is fit for marriage. That's pure prooftexting. So what if the mistranslation happened for Hebrew/Aramaic to Greek instead of Hebrew to English.

Here's a little read on what the messiah really is:

Judaism 101: Moshiach: The Messiah

I could like you to other sites, but I'll you can find them on your own if you are interested different perspectives.

Sean if your Jewish mate I really don't want to have a debate with you about it. You have your faith and I respect that, I have my own beliefs and they differ but it's all good.

[brucelee]

I'm really impressed with your knowledge of the Bible Bilbo.

[Kev]

I'm really impressed with your knowledge of the Bible Bilbo.

Well to be honest it just makes me all the more guilty when I download my favourite dogging and teeny bukkake dvd's.

[brucelee]

I'm really impressed with your knowledge of the Bible Bilbo.

Well to be honest it just makes me all the more guilty when I download my favourite dogging and teeny bukkake dvd's.

at least you feel guilty. I'm starting to believe that I was here to guide you Bilbs.

the LUST OF THE FLESH IS STRONG IN YOU. Hope I could convince you to stay away from porno materials.

[Kev]

I'm really impressed with your knowledge of the Bible Bilbo.

Well to be honest it just makes me all the more guilty when I download my favourite dogging and teeny bukkake dvd's.

at least you feel guilty. I'm starting to believe that I was here to guide you Bilbs.

the LUST OF THE FLESH IS STRONG IN YOU. Hope I could convince you to stay away from porno materials.

You really don't want to try Bruce, all that would happen is I would end up sending you links.