Anybody think Pac has lost 5 fights and JMM has only lost 1??

[antimoron]

get over it.. the verdict is there.. why is it that nobody does what pac did to marquez? if marquez is really that great how come he is having a hard time beating a very limited pac version? you guys are unbelievable.. nobody mentions here why pac leave the 130 division.. he is having a hard time making the weight when he fought jmm..

What is a verdict when it is faulty? How come nobody has done to Pac what Marquez did? Which was to win significantly more rounds than he lost against Manny. He certainly isn't all that bad is he now.

verdict is pac win by a razor thin SD.. it can be either way.. its a close fight not the way you guys seem to imply that its like a robbery.. well pac was beaten shit convincingly by midget flyweights thats what marquez cant do to pac.. no disrespect mate... Marquez is a badass but come on he is having a hard time with pac.. vice versa..

[Gandalf]

get over it.. the verdict is there.. why is it that nobody does what pac did to marquez? if marquez is really that great how come he is having a hard time beating a very limited pac version? you guys are unbelievable.. nobody mentions here why pac leave the 130 division.. he is having a hard time making the weight when he fought jmm..

What is a verdict when it is faulty? How come nobody has done to Pac what Marquez did? Which was to win significantly more rounds than he lost against Manny. He certainly isn't all that bad is he now.

verdict is pac win by a razor thin SD.. it can be either way.. its a close fight not the way you guys seem to imply that its like a robbery.. well pac was beaten shit convincingly by midget flyweights thats what marquez cant do to pac.. no disrespect mate... Marquez is a badass but come on he is having a hard time with pac.. vice versa..

That is true and I don't disagree with you there. They were quality fights and pretty tight too. I just think Pac got a little sweet with the verdicts though. I want to see it again, but it waits to be seen if that might happen or not.

[ICB]

get over it.. the verdict is there.. why is it that nobody does what pac did to marquez? if marquez is really that great how come he is having a hard time beating a very limited pac version? you guys are unbelievable.. nobody mentions here why pac leave the 130 division.. he is having a hard time making the weight when he fought jmm..

What is a verdict when it is faulty? How come nobody has done to Pac what Marquez did? Which was to win significantly more rounds than he lost against Manny. He certainly isn't all that bad is he now.

verdict is pac win by a razor thin SD.. it can be either way.. its a close fight not the way you guys seem to imply that its like a robbery.. well pac was beaten shit convincingly by midget flyweights thats what marquez cant do to pac.. no disrespect mate... Marquez is a badass but come on he is having a hard time with pac.. vice versa..

No one's implying that i think JMM won both fights, but i think they were both close fights i only had him winning both fights by 1 point. Its just Taeth said the only people that would have JMM winning are Mexican/Spanish when thats not true. Its nothing to do with where they come from its just to do with different opinions.

[KananKrus]

The "moonwalk" + razor counters is Pacquiao's Kryptonite. JMM epmtied all the shelves for those!

[Chino]

- Nonito Donaire:114-113 Marquez
- Filipino Sports Analysts Ronnie Nathanielsz, Recah Trinidad and Ed Picson all picked Marquez

I remember when JC Chavez faced Whitaker. Even Mexican newspapers, sports channels, sports magazines, etc. In Mexico and in the USA questioned JC Chavez draw. I would never imagine Filipino press or boxing enthusiasts questioning Pac.
I'll say that the KO on the 2nd fight helped Pac a lot to get a decision even if JMM won most rounds. The KO can cause a big impact in anybody's eyes.

im certainly not Spanish/Mexican

I don't understand why we latins/hispanics are called "Spanish" many times, is it because of the language we speak that people get confused with us being Spaniards or something? It would be like people calling Australians and Americans, English, or calling all Asians, Chinese. Don't you think?

[OumaFan]

I don't get people who act like JMM won both fights clearly, they were both close fights that could have gone the other way.

[CFH]

I had Pacman winning the first fight by 1 point and losing the 2nd fight by 3 points. Still when it comes to decisions, it's all subjective.

Let's not try to diminish a great fighter's talent and abilities just because you don't agree with the decision.

Yeah, it's much better to do so based on their nationality, right?

[BIG H]

I had Pacman winning the first fight by 1 point and losing the 2nd fight by 3 points. Still when it comes to decisions, it's all subjective.

Let's not try to diminish a great fighter's talent and abilities just because you don't agree with the decision.

Yeah, it's much better to do so based on their nationality, right?

[gest12645]

Pacman won both fights but JMM was robbed against Chris JOhh

[Gandalf]

Pacman won both fights but JMM was robbed against Chris JOhh

I agree that Pac beat MAB twice and JMM was robbed against Chris John.

[generalbulldog]

I had Pacman winning the first fight by 1 point and losing the 2nd fight by 3 points. Still when it comes to decisions, it's all subjective.

Let's not try to diminish a great fighter's talent and abilities just because you don't agree with the decision.

Yeah, it's much better to do so based on their nationality, right?

If you're talking about Euro fighters, I said they were hyped which is my opinion, but did I diminish their fighting abilities or heart? No of course not.

Hamed? Hatton? Calzaghe? And I'll defend my view that Calzaghe fought a 43 year old past his prime Hopkins and a 39 year old Roy Jones, so yeah that gets no credit with me. Hatton? Never denied he was a decent fighter, not elite like some people were pumping him up. Just like some peoplle think Floyd ducks fighters or that Pacman is a pussy for fighting a DeLaHoya at 147 who was weight drained and should have fought him at 154 to make the fight "fair". lol All opinions nothing more or less.

[BIG H]

I had Pacman winning the first fight by 1 point and losing the 2nd fight by 3 points. Still when it comes to decisions, it's all subjective.

Let's not try to diminish a great fighter's talent and abilities just because you don't agree with the decision.

Yeah, it's much better to do so based on their nationality, right?

If you're talking about Euro fighters, I said they were hyped which is my opinion, but did I diminish their fighting abilities or heart? No of course not.

Hamed? Hatton? Calzaghe? And I'll defend my view that Calzaghe fought a 43 year old past his prime Hopkins and a 39 year old Roy Jones, so yeah that gets no credit with me. Hatton? Never denied he was a decent fighter, not elite like some people were pumping him up. Just like some peoplle think Floyd ducks fighters or that Pacman is a pussy for fighting a DeLaHoya at 147 who was weight drained and should have fought him at 154 to make the fight "fair". lol All opinions nothing more or less.

Bernard Hopkins best performances have all arguably come post 40 years old. The Pavlik performance (which was after JC) is the best version of Hopkins I have seen. Calzaghe also beat the Middle weight Mike Tyson, superbowl poster boy, future of American boxing (but of course he was just hype ) aswell as beating Kessler. He also fought Brewer, Mitchell, Woodhall, Eubank, Reid (all World Champions) You can make excuses for anybodies record, and Calzaghe's wasn't fantastic, but it was solid!!

Who did Hopkins fight in 10 years as Middleweight king??

Who prime fighters did RJJ fight in his Pomp at SMW and LHW?

Like I say, you can pick holes in anybodies record. RJJ and B-Hop are all time greats (rightly so) but if they were European with their resumes they would not be held in such high estemm FACT

[CFH]

I had Pacman winning the first fight by 1 point and losing the 2nd fight by 3 points. Still when it comes to decisions, it's all subjective.

Let's not try to diminish a great fighter's talent and abilities just because you don't agree with the decision.

Yeah, it's much better to do so based on their nationality, right?

If you're talking about Euro fighters, I said they were hyped which is my opinion, but did I diminish their fighting abilities or heart? No of course not.

Hamed? Hatton? Calzaghe? And I'll defend my view that Calzaghe fought a 43 year old past his prime Hopkins and a 39 year old Roy Jones, so yeah that gets no credit with me. Hatton? Never denied he was a decent fighter, not elite like some people were pumping him up. Just like some peoplle think Floyd ducks fighters or that Pacman is a pussy for fighting a DeLaHoya at 147 who was weight drained and should have fought him at 154 to make the fight "fair". lol All opinions nothing more or less.

Calling someone an overhyped club fighter isn't diminishing their fighting abilities?

Like H said, Hopkins best performances have come very late in his career. I don't think Calzaghe beat him, but I'm in the minority and he deserves credit for at least fighting an extremely close fight with one of boxings best. Also, very few people have given Calzaghe much credit for beating Jones, myself included; though he did so in impressive fashion. However, his victories over Lacy, Kessler, and Hopkins are comprable with most American fighters of his stature.

As for Hatton, you called him "overhyped [by fanboys]" and a "club fighter". To me, that sounds like you were calling him a very ordinary and less than decent fighter.

[Taeth]

Not even close to the majority think Marquez won both fights, I have only seen spanish/mexicans who think Marquez won the second fight, they still can't give a logical round by round reason why they believe he won the second fight, they say what rounds, but when I go through the rounds punch by punch they have no answer for the truth.

All these people had JMM winning i'd say more people think JMM won there 2nd fight, than more people think Manny Pacquiao won the 2nd fight. And by the way i had JMM winning both Manny Pacquiao fights and the Chris John fight with ease, and im certainly not Spanish/Mexican.


Associated Press:114-113 Marquez
- Joe Santoliquito:115-112 Marquez
- Dan Rafael, ESPN.com: 114-113 Marquez
- Darius Ortiz, ESPN.com:114-113 Marquez
- Eric Raskin, ESPN.com:114-113 Marquez
- Brian Kenny, Friday Night Fights:115-112 Marquez
- Scott Mallon, Ring Magazine / Boxing News / The Fist / Boxing Digest:114-113 Marquez
- Yahoo Sports:115-112 Marquez
- Fight News.com:115-112 Marquez
- Steve Carp, Las Vegas Review Journal: 114-113 Marquez
- Norm Fraunheim, Arizona Republic:114-113 Marquez
- Rich Marrotta, Top Rank TV:114-113 Marquez
- Kieran Mulvaney, Reuters:114-113 Marquez
- DogHouseBoxing:114-113 Marquez
- Brett Conway, MaxBoxing.com:114-113 Marquez
- Rick Reeno, BoxingScene.com:114-113 Marquez
- Gary Randall, MaxBoxing.com:114-113 Marquez
- Bart Barry, 15Rounds.com:115-113 Marquez
- Bruce McTavish, International Judge:115-112 Marquez
- Francis Ochoa, Philippine Daily Inquirer:114-113 Marquez
- Scott Christ, BadLeftHook.com:114-113 Marquez
- William Detloff, The Ring Magazine:115-113 Marquez
- Ron Borges, TheSweetScience.com:114-113 Marquez
- Bert Sugar:Marquez
- Max Kellerman & Bob Papa:Marquez in both fights
- Nonito Donaire:114-113 Marquez
- Filipino Sports Analysts Ronnie Nathanielsz, Recah Trinidad and Ed Picson all picked Marquez.
- Graham Houston, FightWriter.com also picked Marquez

• Pacquiao wins the vacant Ring Magazine jr. lightweight world title. Ring Magazine awarded the belt to Pacquiao but did not believe he won the fight.

Are these valid? Like is this from a real article? Either way anybody, who had Marquez up by more than one point is clearly delusional because thats the only way I give people the slightest reasoning for having him up in the fight, there is no way he was up two or three rounds when the knockdown is taken into consideration. Once again, what rounds did they give to Marquez? I guarantee if I sat down a watched the fight through with anyone I could convince them that two rounds people always seem to give Marquez (1 and 11) clearly didn't belong to him.

[Taeth]

I had Pacman winning the first fight by 1 point and losing the 2nd fight by 3 points. Still when it comes to decisions, it's all subjective.

Let's not try to diminish a great fighter's talent and abilities just because you don't agree with the decision.

Yeah, it's much better to do so based on their nationality, right?

I was just commenting that most people I've seen argue Marquez won on here have the Mexican flag on their name. I was trying to be racist, it makes sense that mexican people would support a great mexican fighter like Marquez, he is a tribute to their culture. I am just saying that in terms of this fight, Marquez did not win. Its like saying Oscar De La Hoya beat Mayweather. Some people on here seem to believe that, or that it was a draw when that fight wasn't even close. While Marquez-Pacquiao II was extremely close, Mayweather won it.

And I had Pacquiao winning on fight night, which is the time I am most critical of the fighter I favor, IMO he really needs to earn rounds to win IMO so that I don't feel I am skewing my opinion based on favorites.