Anybody think Pac has lost 5 fights and JMM has only lost 1??

[antimoron]

get over it.. the verdict is there.. why is it that nobody does what pac did to marquez? if marquez is really that great how come he is having a hard time beating a very limited pac version? you guys are unbelievable.. nobody mentions here why pac leave the 130 division.. he is having a hard time making the weight when he fought jmm..

[generalbulldog]

I had Pacman winning the first fight by 1 point and losing the 2nd fight by 3 points. Still when it comes to decisions, it's all subjective.

Let's not try to diminish a great fighter's talent and abilities just because you don't agree with the decision.

[Gandalf]

I had Pacman winning the first fight by 1 point and losing the 2nd fight by 3 points. Still when it comes to decisions, it's all subjective.

Let's not try to diminish a great fighter's talent and abilities just because you don't agree with the decision.

I don't think people are doing that. They are both exceptional fighters. Popular opinion means more than a judges scorecard at the end of the day.

[gest12645]

Pacman won both fights but JMM was robbed against Chris JOhh

[Gandalf]

Pacman won both fights but JMM was robbed against Chris JOhh

I agree that Pac beat MAB twice and JMM was robbed against Chris John.

[Pugilistic]

I felt Pacquiao won the first fight and Marquez won the second fight.

[BoomBoom]

I had the first a draw and the second to Marquez. Unfortunately for Marquez, if you take away the knockdowns he would have won both decisively imo. I scored the Marquez John fight a draw also. I didnt see that as the robbery that many people did, but I didnt think John did enough to win either.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

You know... Iv'e really made a point of averting this discussion. I just don't want to get into a debate about it.

Why? Because the opinion is so split. There's just no point.

BUT, i will say that i have watched and re-watched and re-thought, and re-scored and then re-re-watched BOTH fights over and over (I'll be honest, i think the main reason is that both fights are so damn 'Watchable'. ). And i'll be honest Marquez won both fights.

Not only that, but at times in the second fight, Marquez impressed me so much i even started thinking about naming my unborn Son Marquez

Seriously talented, gutsy fighter is Marquez

[Addicted to_boxing]

Unless you are a Pac fan a gift is covered up by supporting the judges and emphasizing the obvious that the outcome will remain in the record books

[CFH]

I had Pacman winning the first fight by 1 point and losing the 2nd fight by 3 points. Still when it comes to decisions, it's all subjective.

Let's not try to diminish a great fighter's talent and abilities just because you don't agree with the decision.

Yeah, it's much better to do so based on their nationality, right?

[BIG H]

I had Pacman winning the first fight by 1 point and losing the 2nd fight by 3 points. Still when it comes to decisions, it's all subjective.

Let's not try to diminish a great fighter's talent and abilities just because you don't agree with the decision.

Yeah, it's much better to do so based on their nationality, right?

[generalbulldog]

I had Pacman winning the first fight by 1 point and losing the 2nd fight by 3 points. Still when it comes to decisions, it's all subjective.

Let's not try to diminish a great fighter's talent and abilities just because you don't agree with the decision.

Yeah, it's much better to do so based on their nationality, right?

If you're talking about Euro fighters, I said they were hyped which is my opinion, but did I diminish their fighting abilities or heart? No of course not.

Hamed? Hatton? Calzaghe? And I'll defend my view that Calzaghe fought a 43 year old past his prime Hopkins and a 39 year old Roy Jones, so yeah that gets no credit with me. Hatton? Never denied he was a decent fighter, not elite like some people were pumping him up. Just like some peoplle think Floyd ducks fighters or that Pacman is a pussy for fighting a DeLaHoya at 147 who was weight drained and should have fought him at 154 to make the fight "fair". lol All opinions nothing more or less.

[BIG H]

I had Pacman winning the first fight by 1 point and losing the 2nd fight by 3 points. Still when it comes to decisions, it's all subjective.

Let's not try to diminish a great fighter's talent and abilities just because you don't agree with the decision.

Yeah, it's much better to do so based on their nationality, right?

If you're talking about Euro fighters, I said they were hyped which is my opinion, but did I diminish their fighting abilities or heart? No of course not.

Hamed? Hatton? Calzaghe? And I'll defend my view that Calzaghe fought a 43 year old past his prime Hopkins and a 39 year old Roy Jones, so yeah that gets no credit with me. Hatton? Never denied he was a decent fighter, not elite like some people were pumping him up. Just like some peoplle think Floyd ducks fighters or that Pacman is a pussy for fighting a DeLaHoya at 147 who was weight drained and should have fought him at 154 to make the fight "fair". lol All opinions nothing more or less.

Bernard Hopkins best performances have all arguably come post 40 years old. The Pavlik performance (which was after JC) is the best version of Hopkins I have seen. Calzaghe also beat the Middle weight Mike Tyson, superbowl poster boy, future of American boxing (but of course he was just hype ) aswell as beating Kessler. He also fought Brewer, Mitchell, Woodhall, Eubank, Reid (all World Champions) You can make excuses for anybodies record, and Calzaghe's wasn't fantastic, but it was solid!!

Who did Hopkins fight in 10 years as Middleweight king??

Who prime fighters did RJJ fight in his Pomp at SMW and LHW?

Like I say, you can pick holes in anybodies record. RJJ and B-Hop are all time greats (rightly so) but if they were European with their resumes they would not be held in such high estemm FACT

[CFH]

I had Pacman winning the first fight by 1 point and losing the 2nd fight by 3 points. Still when it comes to decisions, it's all subjective.

Let's not try to diminish a great fighter's talent and abilities just because you don't agree with the decision.

Yeah, it's much better to do so based on their nationality, right?

If you're talking about Euro fighters, I said they were hyped which is my opinion, but did I diminish their fighting abilities or heart? No of course not.

Hamed? Hatton? Calzaghe? And I'll defend my view that Calzaghe fought a 43 year old past his prime Hopkins and a 39 year old Roy Jones, so yeah that gets no credit with me. Hatton? Never denied he was a decent fighter, not elite like some people were pumping him up. Just like some peoplle think Floyd ducks fighters or that Pacman is a pussy for fighting a DeLaHoya at 147 who was weight drained and should have fought him at 154 to make the fight "fair". lol All opinions nothing more or less.

Calling someone an overhyped club fighter isn't diminishing their fighting abilities?

Like H said, Hopkins best performances have come very late in his career. I don't think Calzaghe beat him, but I'm in the minority and he deserves credit for at least fighting an extremely close fight with one of boxings best. Also, very few people have given Calzaghe much credit for beating Jones, myself included; though he did so in impressive fashion. However, his victories over Lacy, Kessler, and Hopkins are comprable with most American fighters of his stature.

As for Hatton, you called him "overhyped [by fanboys]" and a "club fighter". To me, that sounds like you were calling him a very ordinary and less than decent fighter.

[Taeth]

I had Pacman winning the first fight by 1 point and losing the 2nd fight by 3 points. Still when it comes to decisions, it's all subjective.

Let's not try to diminish a great fighter's talent and abilities just because you don't agree with the decision.

Yeah, it's much better to do so based on their nationality, right?

I was just commenting that most people I've seen argue Marquez won on here have the Mexican flag on their name. I was trying to be racist, it makes sense that mexican people would support a great mexican fighter like Marquez, he is a tribute to their culture. I am just saying that in terms of this fight, Marquez did not win. Its like saying Oscar De La Hoya beat Mayweather. Some people on here seem to believe that, or that it was a draw when that fight wasn't even close. While Marquez-Pacquiao II was extremely close, Mayweather won it.

And I had Pacquiao winning on fight night, which is the time I am most critical of the fighter I favor, IMO he really needs to earn rounds to win IMO so that I don't feel I am skewing my opinion based on favorites.