Pacquiao's Accomplishments aren't really that Great

[mad_takamura]

Can any Pac fan tell me the last time Pac fought a guy not coming off a loss within their last 2 fights, not weight drained , not war worn, not over aged, not a straight foward fighter, not a lesser puncher, with comparable hand speed ?

Good, not great accomplishments!! Attractive on paper but true boxing fans know the truth......


I'll save you time MAB 1, EM1 AND 2 and two JMM fights.... ( Biggest claim vs JMM 2 dominant rounds with 4 KD's) Take those 2 rounds away and he has been owned by JMM

MAB 2 -- Was washed up
EM 3 --- EM had just gotton his ass kicked in a tune up fight prior to fight
JMM - wins less rounds, 1 vs 3 KD yet wins a decision (a shame)

Larios: Physically too thin in the move up in weight. Not everyone can make an upward change. Pac has both the upper and lower body to be successful at it. The weight comment shows just how tight you nut hug !!!

Diaz......... Please ........................ lol
ODLH- Get real, weight drained and could hardly stand.
Hatton - lol, no need in making the Brits cry by attacking their over rated chump...
Cotto: not overly impressive in last fight and was easy to hit. Appeared to still be mentally fragile. Perfect opponent. Hmmmm take a 70-30 split to mess with his mind and a catch weight to mess with his body !!!



GREAT GREAT GREAT handling by Cock-Roach............................................. .................................................. .................................................. ..................

sometimes we fail to see that amongst all the hulabaloos we put in to a fighter, particularly pac's foes, disregarding his hard work during training and weight draining b4 the fight, that those fighters have a name.

does morales, barrera, marquez, larios, sasakul, ledwaba, de la hoya, hatton ring a bell to you?

yes they are all famous and great fighters. and by some great coincidence, true or not, we see them as either shot, green,really not worthy of their names after pac was finished with them! take a step back and you see all these names with those tags makes me think: how ridiculous can this be!!

even if those are true, you just can't take the fact that these fighters are or were great fighters therefore give pac credit weather you like it or not. otherwise pac would'nt be great if he had'nt beat them in a convincing fachion, well save for jmm, but pac won on him on record too.
an elite beats an elite. you can't just claim this as not great accomplishments coz a great fighter in pac did that. if pac was'nt great he would'nt do that. he is'nt a class-b or class c fighter isn't he? if that was'nt a great accomplishment, so what? that does'nt take away the fact pac is a great fighter and what he did does'nt stray away to these fact so you can rant your hatred forever if you want. do you expect a foe to be perfect before facing pac? you're really overambitious. appreciate what's on the table coz this are still great fights do you agree? if your man did'nt show up the way he should be, then the blame is on him not on pac! it's just bad that you would'nt give pac any credit.if that's what you think, then what kind of boxing fan are you?
boxing is just a shame because of fans like you who don't appreciate great fighters, and accomplishments just fall short because suddenly the foes facing pac become a zombie while facing him. that's real disrespect for pac or you're only up for hatred!
not all fighters have perfect resumes. this just goes to show that because of the hype pac is getting he also gets criticism. what about other fighters? get off being a troll to pac coz you're also hurting boxing in the process!

and stop calling pac fans cock roaches. at least we ain't trolls coz we are sarcastic in every siuation, whch pisses you off more, right?

Pac is a class X monster ala eugene of ghost fighter.

or ippo makunuchi of hajime-no-ippo or more popularly known here as the anime show knockout!

[Addicted to_boxing]

Nice try, but although the boxers names are impressive you never answered the questions of my post ! About fighting fighters coming off a loss in one of either their last or prior to last fights! Of fighting fighters with little elusiveness, Of fighting fighters with no"REAL" power Soto did not meet the calculated match requirements - too much of a power risk . Soto F/U his lil bro and Pac never redeemed the family name. Instead he gave a fight opportunity to a lighter weighing Larios. Now, Pac has surpassed Soto in weight and skill to warrant a match today

GREAT GREAT GREAT handling by Cock-Roach. Where does this imply Pac fans are cockroaches? Come out of Pac;s anus for air please ....... This is a stab at Roach!


Pointing out a a valid point does not make me a troll. Responding to a post with information not related to the content justifies how the smegma in your mouth has reached your brain!

[Addicted to_boxing]

Can any Pac fan tell me the last time Pac fought a guy not coming off a loss within their last 2 fights, not weight drained , not war worn, not over aged, not a straight foward fighter, not a lesser puncher, with comparable hand speed ?

Good, not great accomplishments!! Attractive on paper but true boxing fans know the truth......


I'll save you time MAB 1, EM1 AND 2 and two JMM fights.... ( Biggest claim vs JMM 2 dominant rounds with 4 KD's) Take those 2 rounds away and he has been owned by JMM

MAB 2 -- Was washed up
EM 3 --- EM had just gotton his ass kicked in a tune up fight prior to fight
JMM - wins less rounds, 1 vs 3 KD yet wins a decision (a shame)

Larios: Physically too thin in the move up in weight. Not everyone can make an upward change. Pac has both the upper and lower body to be successful at it. The weight comment shows just how tight you nut hug !!!

Diaz......... Please ........................ lol
ODLH- Get real, weight drained and could hardly stand.
Hatton - lol, no need in making the Brits cry by attacking their over rated chump...
Cotto: not overly impressive in last fight and was easy to hit. Appeared to still be mentally fragile. Perfect opponent. Hmmmm take a 70-30 split to mess with his mind and a catch weight to mess with his body !!!



GREAT GREAT GREAT handling by Cock-Roach............................................. .................................................. .................................................. ..................

sometimes we fail to see that amongst all the hulabaloos we put in to a fighter, particularly pac's foes, disregarding his hard work during training and weight draining b4 the fight, that those fighters have a name.

does morales, barrera, marquez, larios, sasakul, ledwaba, de la hoya, hatton ring a bell to you?

yes they are all famous and great fighters. and by some great coincidence, true or not, we see them as either shot, green,really not worthy of their names after pac was finished with them! take a step back and you see all these names with those tags makes me think: how ridiculous can this be!!

even if those are true, you just can't take the fact that these fighters are or were great fighters therefore give pac credit weather you like it or not. otherwise pac would'nt be great if he had'nt beat them in a convincing fachion, well save for jmm, but pac won on him on record too.
an elite beats an elite. you can't just claim this as not great accomplishments coz a great fighter in pac did that. if pac was'nt great he would'nt do that. he is'nt a class-b or class c fighter isn't he? if that was'nt a great accomplishment, so what? that does'nt take away the fact pac is a great fighter and what he did does'nt stray away to these fact so you can rant your hatred forever if you want. do you expect a foe to be perfect before facing pac? you're really overambitious. appreciate what's on the table coz this are still great fights do you agree? if your man did'nt show up the way he should be, then the blame is on him not on pac! it's just bad that you would'nt give pac any credit.if that's what you think, then what kind of boxing fan are you?
boxing is just a shame because of fans like you who don't appreciate great fighters, and accomplishments just fall short because suddenly the foes facing pac become a zombie while facing him. that's real disrespect for pac or you're only up for hatred!
not all fighters have perfect resumes. this just goes to show that because of the hype pac is getting he also gets criticism. what about other fighters? get off being a troll to pac coz you're also hurting boxing in the process!

and stop calling pac fans cock roaches. at least we ain't trolls coz we are sarcastic in every siuation, whch pisses you off more, right?

for the record - Addicted to boxing is a well known troll, his post are usually ignored but thanks for putting him in his place

haha JuliusRain & brucelee the Pac-Parrots .......... Mr. & Mrs. Repeat-All

[mad_takamura]

sometimes we fail to see that amongst all the hulabaloos we put in to a fighter, particularly pac's foes, disregarding his hard work during training and weight draining b4 the fight, that those fighters have a name.

does morales, barrera, marquez, larios, sasakul, ledwaba, de la hoya, hatton ring a bell to you?

yes they are all famous and great fighters. and by some great coincidence, true or not, we see them as either shot, green,really not worthy of their names after pac was finished with them! take a step back and you see all these names with those tags makes me think: how ridiculous can this be!!

even if those are true, you just can't take the fact that these fighters are or were great fighters therefore give pac credit weather you like it or not. otherwise pac would'nt be great if he had'nt beat them in a convincing fachion, well save for jmm, but pac won on him on record too.
an elite beats an elite. you can't just claim this as not great accomplishments coz a great fighter in pac did that. if pac was'nt great he would'nt do that. he is'nt a class-b or class c fighter isn't he? if that was'nt a great accomplishment, so what? that does'nt take away the fact pac is a great fighter and what he did does'nt stray away to these fact so you can rant your hatred forever if you want. do you expect a foe to be perfect before facing pac? you're really overambitious. appreciate what's on the table coz this are still great fights do you agree? if your man did'nt show up the way he should be, then the blame is on him not on pac! it's just bad that you would'nt give pac any credit.if that's what you think, then what kind of boxing fan are you?
boxing is just a shame because of fans like you who don't appreciate great fighters, and accomplishments just fall short because suddenly the foes facing pac become a zombie while facing him. that's real disrespect for pac or you're only up for hatred!
not all fighters have perfect resumes. this just goes to show that because of the hype pac is getting he also gets criticism. what about other fighters? get off being a troll to pac coz you're also hurting boxing in the process!

and stop calling pac fans cock roaches. at least we ain't trolls coz we are sarcastic in every siuation, whch pisses you off more, right?

for the record - Addicted to boxing is a well known troll, his post are usually ignored but thanks for putting him in his place

haha JuliusRain & brucelee the Pac-Parrots .......... Mr. & Mrs. Repeat-All

well julius was right about you addicted to boxing or should i say addicted to trolling?

[mad_takamura]

Nice try, but although the boxers names are impressive you never answered the questions of my post ! About fighting fighters coming off a loss in one of either their last or prior to last fights! Of fighting fighters with little elusiveness, Of fighting fighters with no"REAL" power Soto did not meet the calculated match requirements - too much of a power risk . Soto F/U his lil bro and Pac never redeemed the family name. Instead he gave a fight opportunity to a lighter weighing Larios. Now, Pac has surpassed Soto in weight and skill to warrant a match today

GREAT GREAT GREAT handling by Cock-Roach. Where does this imply Pac fans are cockroaches? Come out of Pac;s anus for air please ....... This is a stab at Roach!


Pointing out a a valid point does not make me a troll. Responding to a post with information not related to the content justifies how the smegma in your mouth has reached your brain!

addicted to trolling, i guess your addiction to being a troll made you too high it clouded your judgment.

you said pac replaced redemption of family name and avenging bobby pac's loss to soto by avoiding soto and fighting larios instead. tell me: are you, if ever you are in a sound mind, serious at all with this post?!

coz you are completely false. it seems going around in boxing forums like this your only purpose is to troll. based to the chronological sequence of events your post is just too false and makes me wonder if i ever have to take you seriously.

the pac larios fight happened at 2006 while soto beating bobby pac happened at 2007! so to who do pac have to avenge for when he fought larios instead? who did pac avoided and replaced larios for?

this post just proves that you don't know what you're talking about addicted. all you really know is to spew hatred through trolling.
you should change your name from addicted to boxing to addicted to trolling really.

[brucelee]

Nice try, but although the boxers names are impressive you never answered the questions of my post ! About fighting fighters coming off a loss in one of either their last or prior to last fights! Of fighting fighters with little elusiveness, Of fighting fighters with no"REAL" power Soto did not meet the calculated match requirements - too much of a power risk . Soto F/U his lil bro and Pac never redeemed the family name. Instead he gave a fight opportunity to a lighter weighing Larios. Now, Pac has surpassed Soto in weight and skill to warrant a match today

GREAT GREAT GREAT handling by Cock-Roach. Where does this imply Pac fans are cockroaches? Come out of Pac;s anus for air please ....... This is a stab at Roach!


Pointing out a a valid point does not make me a troll. Responding to a post with information not related to the content justifies how the smegma in your mouth has reached your brain!

addicted to trolling, i guess your addiction to being a troll made you too high it clouded your judgment.

you said pac replaced redemption of family name and avenging bobby pac's loss to soto by avoiding soto and fighting larios instead. tell me: are you, if ever you are in a sound mind, serious at all with this post?!

coz you are completely false. it seems going around in boxing forums like this your only purpose is to troll. based to the chronological sequence of events your post is just too false and makes me wonder if i ever have to take you seriously.

the pac larios fight happened at 2006 while soto beating bobby pac happened at 2007! so to who do pac have to avenge for when he fought larios instead? who did pac avoided and replaced larios for?

this post just proves that you don't know what you're talking about addicted. all you really know is to spew hatred through trolling.
you should change your name from addicted to boxing to addicted to trolling really.

Addicted to trolling had been unmasked. He only comes here when pac has an upcoming fight or when there is an issue about Pac.

He's not even addicted to trolling; he's addicted to hating pac.

He's as infamous as VD when it comes to ridiculous comments.

[ER-101]

Words are just easy to say but accomplishments are the true measure of a man.

[Addicted to_boxing]

Nice try, but although the boxers names are impressive you never answered the questions of my post ! About fighting fighters coming off a loss in one of either their last or prior to last fights! Of fighting fighters with little elusiveness, Of fighting fighters with no"REAL" power Soto did not meet the calculated match requirements - too much of a power risk . Soto F/U his lil bro and Pac never redeemed the family name. Instead he gave a fight opportunity to a lighter weighing Larios. Now, Pac has surpassed Soto in weight and skill to warrant a match today

GREAT GREAT GREAT handling by Cock-Roach. Where does this imply Pac fans are cockroaches? Come out of Pac;s anus for air please ....... This is a stab at Roach!


Pointing out a a valid point does not make me a troll. Responding to a post with information not related to the content justifies how the smegma in your mouth has reached your brain!

addicted to trolling, i guess your addiction to being a troll made you too high it clouded your judgment.

you said pac replaced redemption of family name and avenging bobby pac's loss to soto by avoiding soto and fighting larios instead. tell me: are you, if ever you are in a sound mind, serious at all with this post?!

coz you are completely false. it seems going around in boxing forums like this your only purpose is to troll. based to the chronological sequence of events your post is just too false and makes me wonder if i ever have to take you seriously.

the pac larios fight happened at 2006 while soto beating bobby pac happened at 2007! so to who do pac have to avenge for when he fought larios instead? who did pac avoided and replaced larios for?

this post just proves that you don't know what you're talking about addicted. all you really know is to spew hatred through trolling.
you should change your name from addicted to boxing to addicted to trolling really.

You are partially correct in that i said Larios but actually Pac decided to fight a washed up MAB in a rematch. Same message though, address that !!!! Pac pussed out despite seeing Soto beat the the piss out of his brother Bobby .... looking foward to seeing your excuse !!!

[CFH]

Nice try, but although the boxers names are impressive you never answered the questions of my post ! About fighting fighters coming off a loss in one of either their last or prior to last fights! Of fighting fighters with little elusiveness, Of fighting fighters with no"REAL" power Soto did not meet the calculated match requirements - too much of a power risk . Soto F/U his lil bro and Pac never redeemed the family name. Instead he gave a fight opportunity to a lighter weighing Larios. Now, Pac has surpassed Soto in weight and skill to warrant a match today

GREAT GREAT GREAT handling by Cock-Roach. Where does this imply Pac fans are cockroaches? Come out of Pac;s anus for air please ....... This is a stab at Roach!


Pointing out a a valid point does not make me a troll. Responding to a post with information not related to the content justifies how the smegma in your mouth has reached your brain!

addicted to trolling, i guess your addiction to being a troll made you too high it clouded your judgment.

you said pac replaced redemption of family name and avenging bobby pac's loss to soto by avoiding soto and fighting larios instead. tell me: are you, if ever you are in a sound mind, serious at all with this post?!

coz you are completely false. it seems going around in boxing forums like this your only purpose is to troll. based to the chronological sequence of events your post is just too false and makes me wonder if i ever have to take you seriously.

the pac larios fight happened at 2006 while soto beating bobby pac happened at 2007! so to who do pac have to avenge for when he fought larios instead? who did pac avoided and replaced larios for?

this post just proves that you don't know what you're talking about addicted. all you really know is to spew hatred through trolling.
you should change your name from addicted to boxing to addicted to trolling really.

Addicted to trolling had been unmasked. He only comes here when pac has an upcoming fight or when there is an issue about Pac.

He's not even addicted to trolling; he's addicted to hating pac.

He's as infamous as VD when it comes to ridiculous comments.

[mad_takamura]

Nice try, but although the boxers names are impressive you never answered the questions of my post ! About fighting fighters coming off a loss in one of either their last or prior to last fights! Of fighting fighters with little elusiveness, Of fighting fighters with no"REAL" power Soto did not meet the calculated match requirements - too much of a power risk . Soto F/U his lil bro and Pac never redeemed the family name. Instead he gave a fight opportunity to a lighter weighing Larios. Now, Pac has surpassed Soto in weight and skill to warrant a match today

GREAT GREAT GREAT handling by Cock-Roach. Where does this imply Pac fans are cockroaches? Come out of Pac;s anus for air please ....... This is a stab at Roach!


Pointing out a a valid point does not make me a troll. Responding to a post with information not related to the content justifies how the smegma in your mouth has reached your brain!

addicted to trolling, i guess your addiction to being a troll made you too high it clouded your judgment.

you said pac replaced redemption of family name and avenging bobby pac's loss to soto by avoiding soto and fighting larios instead. tell me: are you, if ever you are in a sound mind, serious at all with this post?!

coz you are completely false. it seems going around in boxing forums like this your only purpose is to troll. based to the chronological sequence of events your post is just too false and makes me wonder if i ever have to take you seriously.

the pac larios fight happened at 2006 while soto beating bobby pac happened at 2007! so to who do pac have to avenge for when he fought larios instead? who did pac avoided and replaced larios for?

this post just proves that you don't know what you're talking about addicted. all you really know is to spew hatred through trolling.
you should change your name from addicted to boxing to addicted to trolling really.

You are partially correct in that i said Larios but actually Pac decided to fight a washed up MAB in a rematch. Same message though, address that !!!! Pac pussed out despite seeing Soto beat the the piss out of his brother Bobby .... looking foward to seeing your excuse !!!

ok here is my "excuse."
there are 2 reasons why.
1. market value. during that time, whose name is more established? mab or soto? to who shall pac have more reward in terms of ppv and ticket sales? and i don't think risk has to do anything with that. for me at that time soto can't even match up with pac so why would pac elude soto? my reason for this is because soto even suffered a knockdown from the lesser, more average bobby pac during their fight so what more if that was the pacman during that time? have you watched the fight? bobby decked him! however compared to bobby pac, pacman is more faster, skillful and stronger than his kid brother! imagine what the pacman would've done during that time! and i'm emphasizing during that time since you even admitted how pac has now outdone soto in terms of skill. poor soto.

but let's get back to the market value. although soto beat rocky juarez impressively prior to the time of the mab-pac rematch, that doe'snt even warrant him a fight with pac imo that can outdo the ppv potential of a mab-pac2 with regards to mab's mexican and american fans. with mexican fans alone, mab has a better fanbase than la zorrita. and ticket sales and ppv buys? do we need to argue with that? mab owns soto off course.
and mab being washed up? if he was he did'nt gave jmm a competetive fight. he even lasted with jmm exchanging and engaging blows. heck he even performed better than casa or juan diaz. both were ktfo'ed by jmm! his fight with khan recently didn't even proved more, coz that fight was stopped due to a headbutt.

and quit whinning pac has outdone anybody from his potential foes in the lower weights in terms of weight and skill. you're sounding like pacdbest already! that's how pac is, a former flyweight winning all the way to the welterweights! that's phenomenal weather you admit it or not!

2.pac's personality. pac always make sure that he gives back to the people who in more ways than one helped him get to the point where he is right now, boxing superstardom. when he comes home from a fight, he shares his blessing by having the whole people in his province and basically anyone who approaches him needing help) receive food money and clothes, each and everyone of them, knowing that his province is poverty stricken. he's too generous that even roach was afraid that he might lose half of his money by giving too much! he even gave one friend a new car, a stadium full of cockfighting afficionados 1000 pesos each ($22 each i guess, but that's a lot since my country is a 3rd world country.) he is a generous, humble, down to earth person willing to give back the blessings he receive. him being a devout catholic has a lot to do with that. and what is the connection in this to why he chose mab you ask?
pac owes a lot to mab in one way or the other. he even explained this before the contract signing that if not to mab he wouldn't even be known today. that win by pac basically started his fame and recognition in the boxing world. if not that win against mab, i don't think he would even get a chance to fight em imo! so that rematch shows how he acknowledge that fact; he gave mab a chance to redeem himself again and so is the rematch.
mab being washed up? 7 straight wins after his loss to pac and a ud loss to jmm makes that argument a little stale. i would only agree that em is the one who is washed up but not mab!

sorry for this post being long. i hope i answered your querry satisfactory in your behalf.

[paddy448]

Don't get me wrong he's a good fighter, but his accomplishments if you were to look at it objectively, which I know is a hard thing for many Pacman fans especially the Orientals, Pacific Islanders, and Fillipinos to do.

Let's look at his "accomplishments"
Hatton- Was never an elite fighter, and past his boxing prime
DeLaHoya-Weight drain and shot
Marquez- Most boxing experts and fans say he lost both fights despite the 4 knockdowns
Morales- Past his boxing prime because of all the wars Erik has been in. He wasn't past his physical prime, but his boxing prime for sure.
Barrera- A shot fighter and past his boxing prime even though he was only 29, been in too many wars.

So for the Fillipino fans and Pacman fans especially the Orientals, please be objective and analyze this. Pacman accomplishments aren't that great. Overrated yes especially in the days of ESPN and Nike.

And no I'm not Mexican or an Pacman "hater".

i think his accomplishments are great, the fighters hes beat over the years show this, people have made excuses sayin his opponents where shot and stuff, i tell u what tho no body else in the world on them nights could of done what pacman did to those fighters

[The Congressman]

6 division champ, won 4 lineal belts, defeated 4 future HOFers, 2-time BWAA FOTY. I think those are great accoplisments.

[Spicoli]

Haha....I thought all of this was flushed with the forum.....oh boy

[Pavlik]

at the age of:

19= WBC World Flyweight Champion
22=IBF World Super Bantamweight Champion
24=Ring Magazine World Featherweight Champion
29=WBC/Ring Magazine World Super Featherweight Champion
=WBC World Lightweight Champion
30=IBO/Ring Magazine World Light Welterweight Champion

At the age of 22 he was already a 2 division world champion, when people consider 22 as a baby in boxing excuses of being too green for other fighters. Manny Pacman Pacquiao is already a 2 division champ.

Manny Pacquiao has gone thru 10 weight classes as of the moment now that's as close as you can get to a throw back fighter!!!

147 lb (66.7 kg)Welterweight140 lb (63.5 kg)Super lightweightSuper lightweightJunior welterweightJunior welterweightLight welterweight135 lb (61.2 kg)Lightweight130 lb (59.0 kg)Super featherweightSuper featherweightJunior lightweightJunior lightweightSuper featherweight126 lb (57.2 kg)Featherweight122 lb (55.3 kg)Super bantamweightSuper bantamweightJunior featherweightJunior featherweightSuper bantamweight118 lb (53.5 kg)Bantamweight115 lb (52.2 kg)Super flyweightSuper flyweightJunior bantamweightJunior bantamweightSuper flyweight112 lb (50.8 kg)Flyweight108 lb (49.0 kg)Light flyweightLight flyweightJunior flyweightJunior flyweightLight flyweight

[levi#1BoxingFan]

Don't get me wrong he's a good fighter, but his accomplishments if you were to look at it objectively, which I know is a hard thing for many Pacman fans especially the Orientals, Pacific Islanders, and Fillipinos to do.

Let's look at his "accomplishments"
Hatton- Was never an elite fighter, and past his boxing prime
DeLaHoya-Weight drain and shot
Marquez- Most boxing experts and fans say he lost both fights despite the 4 knockdowns
Morales- Past his boxing prime because of all the wars Erik has been in. He wasn't past his physical prime, but his boxing prime for sure.
Barrera- A shot fighter and past his boxing prime even though he was only 29, been in too many wars.


This post is pure ignorance. Before Pacquiao beat Hatton everyone was talking about Ricky being back at the top of the P4P list and said Ricky would "Bully" Pacman. Everyone said DLH was too big, too strong ect... is it Mannys fault that their game plan to weakin Oscar worked? Marquez an excelent fighter and one of the P4P top 3 right now never beat Pacquiao, and yes Pacquiao did edge him out, im afraid knock downs are apart of boxing and they do effect the scorecards general. No one said Morales and especially Barrera were out of their primes until Pacquiao beat them, so please bring some relevance to the next post!







So for the Fillipino fans and Pacman fans especially the Orientals, please be objective and analyze this. Pacman accomplishments aren't that great. Overrated yes especially in the days of ESPN and Nike.

And no I'm not Mexican or an Pacman "hater".

im not sure I need bother to analyze this your ignorant post speaks for itself.