So How Good was Marvin Hagler Exactly?

[The Fightfan]

I just don't know. I think the snip-its on Monzon show he is extremley strong. He does have a solid jaw,and he punches with great precision. If Hagler were to stand up to him as he did Hearns I think he would be in trouble, but if he boxed a bit he could win the desicion. Monzon is very underrated because you simply can't find anything on him but we do know one thing he can punch. America and the world grew up watching Hagler's rise through the ranks therefore making it much easier to assess the way this fight would turn out. To close to call but it would have been one helluva a fight.

[southpawed]

I think in a hypothetical Haggler vs Monzon matchup you'd have to lean towards Marvin for the following reasons...
#1 He's a southpaw, the jab (no matter how great) would have not been the wise punch to keep pushing out there.

#2 Haggler's work rate, he worked every second of every round

#3 Haggler's chin, if he could take flush shots from Tommy Hearns he could take shots from anyone

#4 Distance, Haggler would smother Monzon. Monzon was a fighter who liked to get lots of leverage on his punches and it's hard to transfer that weight from the back foot to the front foot when someone is right in your chest.

I just think if you're going to beat Marvin Haggler you'd either need big time Bob Foster type power or loads of speed and either way you'd need great stamina and solid defense.

question on number one. why do you think the jab would have been a bad punch to employ against southpaw Hagler? Just out of curiousity btw.

[Mr140]

Well Daxx how do you see it did Marvin not lose first part of the fight. Was it not a close fight in your eyes i think it was pretty close. Not only that but Leonard was pretty much consider done after the Hearns fight, because he almost lost vision in one eye. Pretty much it was chicken shit of Marvin to give up and not do a rematch. Leonard and Hagler fight was close and every time we do score cards its close.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

Pretty much it was chicken shit of Marvin to give up and not do a rematch.

Marv had been there and done it... For so many years! I'm quite surprised that anyone would think that he was chickenshit for anything?! But I guess you are genuine in your opinion... Leonard was one of the original cherry-pickers... Hate to say it but he was. I guess Hagler was kinda ready to be cherry-picked

But even so... How do we know Leonard would of even gave him a rematch For example, how many years was it before he gave Hearns another go?

Either way Hagler was clearly sick of boxing. He left and never came back for that reason alone. Research will show you this

[Master]

Well Daxx how do you see it did Marvin not lose first part of the fight. Was it not a close fight in your eyes i think it was pretty close. Not only that but Leonard was pretty much consider done after the Hearns fight, because he almost lost vision in one eye. Pretty much it was chicken shit of Marvin to give up and not do a rematch. Leonard and Hagler fight was close and every time we do score cards its close.

The ref that saw it 118-111 or something was certainly blind.

[Mr140]

I don't really think Leonard was much of a cherry picker he beat Benitez who was undefeated, then goes 1 and 1 with Duran, then goes on to KO a unbeaten Hearns. Reason rematches were so late is because of Leonard's eye injury and him not fight for some time after the Hearns fight. Also Master i agree the 118-111 score is BS but i saw the fight 115-113 in favor of Leonard and thought it was very close.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

I don't really think Leonard was much of a cherry picker he beat Benitez who was undefeated, then goes 1 and 1 with Duran, then goes on to KO a unbeaten Hearns. Reason rematches were so late is because of Leonard's eye injury and him not fight for some time after the Hearns fight. Also Master i agree the 118-111 score is BS but i saw the fight 115-113 in favor of Leonard and thought it was very close.

Fair comment but Leonard comeback was fairly greasy and Hagler was no Chickenshit.

[NUCLEAR BULL]

how good was he?......a true legend, tough as nails, power in each hand with iron chin......in his prime in was quite simply Marvelous

[generalbulldog]

Hagler was no chicken shit. He became the MW champ the hard way, and even when he beat Minter in England he still couldn't celebrate that title with a mini riot occurring. As for being a diva that took advantages of his foe's weakness, that's Leonard. After Leonard saw Hagler slipping due to age, he wanted to finally fight Hagler. Hagler when he fought Leonard was close to 33 years old with a lot of wear and tear on that body especially the Hearns and Mugabi fight took a lot out of the man, not to mentioned at that time he was fighting once a year. It was a great opportune time to take on Hagler.

And Hagler always wanted a rematch, in fact he begged for one, didn't get one and just retired to Italy becoming an movie star.

[Mr140]

Gen you got to be shitting me Leonard was as far removed from his prime as Hagler. He had not fought in 3 years and the fight Leonard was in he looked done. He had a career ending injury vs Hearns and was fighting at middle weight for the first time in his career. I also think its BS that Hagler called the fight a robbery when he gave away first part of the fight. To me could of gone either way and for the rematch, It seem to me Hagler was done with sport because he felt so robbed in the fight with Leonard.

[generalbulldog]

Gen you got to be shitting me Leonard was as far removed from his prime as Hagler. He had not fought in 3 years and the fight Leonard was in he looked done. He had a career ending injury vs Hearns and was fighting at middle weight for the first time in his career. I also think its BS that Hagler called the fight a robbery when he gave away first part of the fight. To me could of gone either way and for the rematch, It seem to me Hagler was done with sport because he felt so robbed in the fight with Leonard.

Leonard while not at his peak was still more fresh than Hagler who had been in wars throughout the years. He saw a weakness in Hagler and that was Hagler was slowing down in the Mugabi fight and knew it. Leonard was great in taking advantages like that same with the Duran 2nd fight and the Lalonde fight. And who can blame him?

And about Hagler being some chickenshit that didn't want a rematch, he always wanted one, but Leonard never gave him one. So he forgot about boxing and went to Italy. My source?

[kingfrnk]

That book is the business. Read it twice already.

[X]

Hey, interesting article, thanks for posting it up.

I think Hagler is the best middleweight to ever step into a ring. Technically, he had it all .... good skills, ampidextrous, had power, never undertrained, chin like an anvil.

On the downside (as Joe Frazier said to him) he had three strikes against him - he was black, he was a southpaw, and he was good. Marvin was avoided for years and he nearly blew it against Antuofermo before he managed to get Minter in the ring with him. Just like Sonny Liston, there was a hit iof mystery as to how old he really was once he was champ and I think he may have really been thr best middleweight around for some time prior to being noticed by anyone.

He had to struggle to the top, nobody ever gave him the glory that SRL got so early and it always ranked with hagler.

I still think that Leonard didnt do enough to get the decision over Marvin, he pulled off a great con job on the judges .......... but I also think marvin treated ray with a bit too much respect in the ring that day, just as he did with Duran.

[THE THIRD MAN]

I just don't know. I think the snip-its on Monzon show he is extremley strong. He does have a solid jaw,and he punches with great precision. If Hagler were to stand up to him as he did Hearns I think he would be in trouble, but if he boxed a bit he could win the desicion. Monzon is very underrated because you simply can't find anything on him but we do know one thing he can punch. America and the world grew up watching Hagler's rise through the ranks therefore making it much easier to assess the way this fight would turn out. To close to call but it would have been one helluva a fight.

This is correct, people just don't know how good Monzon was, he beat everybody who was put in front of him and make no mistake in any other era Rodrigo Valdez would be recognised as a great Middleweight yet Monzon handled him twice. Monzon never wasted a punch, he was accurate, powerful and tough. The Monzon right hand was devastating and that is the southpaws worst enemy. Monzon was also a technically skilled boxer, his ability to box and use his long legged frame to avoid punches was outstanding, then he would strike like a cobra and when he did it was lights out. All this from a man who didn't really train for a fight, smoked like a chimney, drank like a fish and fucked everything in a skirt (it also got him shot in the leg once) Imagine if he had of put his mind to boxing? Monzon was a phenomenon, coming from Argentina doesn't help his profile in the US all that much and his out of the ring behaviour cloud people's judgement of him. His story would make an incredible film.

[daptone]

One of the toughest men to enter the ring and an inspiration to inside fighters.