Did that fight really make people believe that Manny will be able to beat Floyd?

[brucelee]

I remember after Floyd beat Marquez people were starting to retract their belief that Manny would just run rampant on Floyd if they fought. Then Manny faced COtto and Clottey and that instilled the same enthusiasm in his fans until Floyd beat up Mosley whom many felt both Manny and Floyd were ducking. THen Manny faced the guy who Floyd has been given the most flack for not fighting in Antonio Margarito, and Manny has looked great, but does anyone think that Floyd wouldn't have pitched an absolute shut out against a guy as ordinary in skill as Antonio?

To me Manny has been hand fed the same makeup of opponent since moving up in weight. They have given him guys who allow Manny to make the most of his style and his speed. Diaz, ODLH(weight-drained), Hatton, Cotto, CLottey, and Margarito are all guys who come forward, and with the exception of a younger Oscar and Clottey they are all easy to hit. I will be the first to give Manny credit for looking absolutely amazing and being so tireless in training so that he could give the kind of performances he did, but these were all guys right there in front of him, and when anyone stands just right there in front of Manny they are going to lose. The one guy actually of all of them that was IMO the most impressive win for Manny was against Hatton, because he actually has fast footwork and he uses angles coming in, but he couldn't overcome those huge mistakes that he makes against southpaws in particular, and Manny was the absolutely antithesis of the type of guy hatton could get away with those mistakes again. But these guys made Manny look like a non-stop punching machine with power, counter punching ability, a great chin, and great footwork, but I would like to disagree to a certain extent this belief. I think it's curious that Manny was able to throw more punches than he ever did earlier in his career against guys so much bigger than him, but then I looked a little more closely. Manny's angles, combinations all came when his opponents were rooted to the ground. When Manny was dancing around these guys, they were simply following him, and standing their ground. Manny was basically given a punching bag that followed him around, and nobody looks faster or better on a heavybag than Manny Pacquiao. Go back and watch Pacquiao-marquez II and see Marquez either beat Manny to the punch with his right hand or take a step back to get just out of range of Manny's attack. This is from a guy who isn't even a particularly good defensive fighter, but he had a antidote to Manny's offense that looked so relentless against Morales two fights earlier, and watch Barrera go against Manny the second time. Or Jorge Solis, watch how that movement took away Manny's punch output.

Now I think Floyd would mostly come forward against Manny, but I think it would be in a similar way he did against Judah. I don't think he would be particularly lead leg heavy, and he would stay light on his feet so if Manny tried to come in with a combination that he could move away quickly and wait for Manny to be off balance before coming in, but I think he would also use similar tactics as Marquez and beat Manny to the punch because Manny kind of drops his hands before he ever throws punches in bunches, and a guy like Floyd could tee off on that. Furthermore watch how good offensively Mosley looked against Margarito, he looked amazingly fast, well conditioned, etc, etc. Even at the advanced stage of his career, but Floyd negated him, not because he was physically faster than Mosley as much as he was so much sharper in the ring. Now I saw Manny look great throwing punches at Margarito, Cotto, CLottey, etc, but I also saw Manny getting hit by punches on the outside, he is an amazing combination puncher, but he isn't the greatest boxer on the outside, and I think all it take is movement to dissipate Manny's offensive combinations, and then you have Manny at his weakest element and that's trying to box like Mayweather, Leonard, RJJ, Hopkins do. Take away his output and he is like any other fast fighter that isn't "different". What makes Manny different is his speed and power combined with his stamina. Floyd arguably has better stamina and vastly superior technique with the same speed. We've seen Manny exploited in the fact that he lacks true technique and I don't think his recent fights have forced him to change that. In fact I think his sparring in preparation for this fight prove that if Manny isn't at his fastest that he has a hard time with relatively ordinary fighters. Whereas a guy with really great technique can adapt way easier to variables in the ring.

It doesnt matter who Pacquiao has to beat down, you will still say Pacquiao isnt as good as mayweather. But guess we will never truly know will we, because Floyd Mayweather is to big of Pussy to step into a ring with someone that can match and exceed his skills in every department. Floyd has never faced someone that can put together combinations the way Manny does. Do you really think "WHEN" Pacquiao landed that big shot that Mosley did that he wouldn't finish Mayweather off. Im really not sure why Im even waisting my time with this post. Mayweather nut hugging is in your genes and no amount of common sense is going to change your mind. Surely! Suuuuuuuurely! If Mayweather believed he could beat Manny "Pacman" Pacquiao and get the Biggest paycheck of his life, recieve more fame and adoration than ever before, and go down in history as arguably one of the best fighters of all time, he would take the fight. Mayweather does more harm for the sport than good and im sick of people idolizing someone that cherry picks his opponets, comes and goes giving no respect to the sport or fans and is a loser woman beater from a loser family. Mayweather dont bother coming back to boxing unless you want to face the P4p King. Arrogant, self proclaimed best ever, and rich and his little butts about to be owned by the state. Congratulations!

Mayweather to many is the p4p king in the sport, and there are two sides to the arguement. I don't think B-Hop and Roy Jones Jr were ever scared to face eachother. This fight not happening is more about ego than anything else. These guys both are trying to find an edge to prove themselves superior to the other, and have everyone believe the other is ducking them. Manny's camp has been cherry picking his opponents as much as Mayweather's has. Hatton had been beaten by Mayweather, as had ODLH. Cotto had a been physically damaged by Margarito then had a really tough fight against Clottey where he didn't look good. Clottey was a perfect opponent for Pacquiao's style. Margarito was demolished by Mosley then looked bad against Robert Garcia.

Mayweather and Pacquiao have foughten great opponents, but Mayweather fought a better version of Hatton, De La Hoya who had destroyed Mayorga and floyd moved up, and he faced Mosley who destroyed Margarito like aforementioned. How is that cherry picking his opponents?

Pacquiao wouldn't land that type of shot on Mayweather, he doesn't move in with punches the same Mosley does, nor does he throw a counter left like Judah that he would catch Floyd coming in, at least not with that type of power.

You say Floyd is a loser woman beater, but Manny has had numerous girlfriends on the side of his marriage, and he kicked out his last girlfriend because she got pregnant. Besides I'm not sure about every other situation, but Josey Harris has already accussed Mayweather of beating her then denying it in court. We haven't even heard the real story from both sides yet.

But there is nobody in the history of boxing that can step into the ring and exceed Mayweather's skills in every department, same can be said about Pacquiao. They are both great, but Floyd is better. It's just as the saying goes "offense gets the glory, but defense wins the game". Manny looks great when has a target to land on, and he is amazing when that is the case, but we've seen him look less than scintilatting against guys with movement. The one guy that made Floyd look back, he fought again and totally dominated. Manny did that to Morales, but couldn't against Marquez who is the closest guy to Mayweather that he has faced, and based on their fight they are still a world apart.

You can actually also make a case how Pac totally dominated DLH and Hatton with his offense while Mayweather had a hard time with them.

Manny is a different beast and there's no one in boxing right now that can be compared with him. Mayweather's defense will fall because he won't be able to see Pac's punches. Pac will corner him and Floyd can run (like Barrera did in the 2nd fight with Pac) and people will see him scared. If he fights Pac, Pac's weird angle shots will come into play and he won't risk being Knock out by Pac. Because the truth of the matter is, Pac does not only have SPEED in his arsenal. He also has POWER. That's the reason his opponents are shocked. MArgarito with his granite chin and his weight and height advantage did not take the risk of going against Pac because he knows Pac could rock him. Cotto and Hatton knows that.

[arihoenig]

Mayweather while out box Manny like he does anyone else, beating Margarito doesn't change thing. I mean come on Mosley beat Margarito quicker Manny did so not like he did anything special.

He deformed Marg's face. That's special enough to me.

mosley fought margarito at 147,and maybe margarito didnt train as hard bec he had a special weapon then! haha! now maybe if manny and margarito fought at 147.....

[zhubin]

Manny is a different beast and there's no one in boxing right now that can be compared with him. Mayweather's defense will fall because he won't be able to see Pac's punches. Pac will corner him and Floyd can run (like Barrera did in the 2nd fight with Pac) and people will see him scared. If he fights Pac, Pac's weird angle shots will come into play and he won't risk being Knock out by Pac. Because the truth of the matter is, Pac does not only have SPEED in his arsenal. He also has POWER. That's the reason his opponents are shocked. MArgarito with his granite chin and his weight and height advantage did not take the risk of going against Pac because he knows Pac could rock him. Cotto and Hatton knows that. [/QUOTE]

You are either blind or stupid...or maybe both. Floyd had a hard time with Oscar and Hatton?!! Spoken like a true Pac nut hugger. Floyd schooled a much more live body Oscar. And Hatton had his will crushed against Floyd...another reason Ricky was easy pickings for Pac. Pac's defense is like swiss cheese. He gets tagged by limited, slow stiffs like Margerito. The difference is...slow guys like Tony can hit Pac...but they cannot avoid getting hit themselves. They play into Pac's hands by walking forward. Manny has not faced a prime, skilled fighter since Marquez in early 2008. Marquez showed the blue print on how to handle Manny. And you think Floyd won't do what Marquez did times 100??!!! Floyd doesn't give a damn how he wins. You think he will brawl to make people happy?! He has a plan a, b, and c. He can adapt however he needs. What happens when your hero realizes he does not have a come forward punching bag? What happens when Floyd tags him with laser like precision and then slips away using his unparalleled defense? How else will Pac fight? Keep drinking the kool aid.

[Majesty]

No...I don't think that Pacquiao would, could, or will defeat/dethrone Floyd.

I was surprised that he handled the size...or made it through the size of Margarito.

Floyd's an insane counter puncher & an even nuttier body man...I think Pac would have a career ending night...or possibly career defining...who's to say anything's impossible.

But my money'd be on Floyd...but then I'm a fan of that assbag...so what else?

I just can't totally agree with Floyd being that insanely great counter puncher. He had trouble with De la hoya and if De la hoya made a question mark on Floyd, imagine what Pac would do against Floyd.

It's hard to imagine Pacquiao being taller then Floyd and fighting him patiently while trying to counter him behind a jab for 6 rounds. I sort of imagine Pacquiao trying to go in and out and giving Floyd more to counter then Oscar did early on.

You can't imagine Pacquiao fighting Mayweather like Oscar fought him or even like Shane fought him. So saying "he lost some rounds to Oscar imagine what Pacquiao would do to him." pretty much makes no sense, its completely different styles. You'd be more accurate saying, Marquez beat him twice, imagine what Floyd would do to him, but that would be unfair too.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

Yeah that's the main thing that bugs me; no matter how good Manny Pacquiao Looks, you can't deny what Juan Manuel Marquez did to him.

Marquez with superior speed, reach, timing, reflexes AND power = BIG trouble for Pacquiao. Plus Mayweather is an incredibly smart guy. He took what Mosley had to offer had exploited it in a matter of 30 seconds. To be beat him, you have to have something that bests him and TBH with Maywather being on the back foot, that will always leave Pacquiao on -1.

Actually, add Mayweather's jab to the body and it's more like -1.5.
I don't truly think Pacquiao looses 10 times out of 10 but I know he would really have to surpass himself to really get at Mayweather.

ARGH! But then what are Mayweather's legs like these days? oh man I'm confused. I have reason to believe than Mayweather is a bit more leggy then he used to be and boy is Pacquiao good on his feet these days.

Fuck it, I give up.

[Islington haye maker]

I think in reality,this is a 50/50 fight....But from what i have seen from the two fighter's.

I more lean towards FMM...I think while the pac-man is a great,no doubt.
He does leave himself open quite alot and i just feel FMM will just pick him off...He's just too smart.

Who is in line To fight Fmm anyway??...Ive heard some poor names banded about.

[Saddo]

CBA to read all the crap posted so i will say this....

NO more than i thought before the fight.

What it did do is install the fact of what an amazing fighter he is.... with or without the floyd fight he will go down in history as a boxing legend.

i personally don't think he needs Floyd and a win over Flyod would just be the cherry on the top of what is an amazing career.

A lose to floyd would not take anything away from what he has achived IMHO...

But as a fan.... i would sell my first born just to listen to this fight on a radio... its that big to me

[Howlin Mad Missy]

can't be arsed reading the whole thread but I'll say this because it's what I said to whoever would listen BEFORE the fight. Margarito was there as a lump of wood to make Manny look good and get another title/weight whatever.

The surprising thing was that Margarito was able to tag him, not enough & not in combinations....that being said with Floyds hand and foot speed what makes people think Manny will have a free run of things against PBF.

Neither need each other to cement their HOF status but history will kick both their asses if it doesnt happen.

Can't fault Margaritos heart either that eye was causing problems from round 4/5.

[JonnyFolds]

I still believe 100% Floyd beats Pac no problem i think Roach and Pacquiao just do a good job at fooling everyone end of the day these recent opponents have recently been beaten or have had to make a catchweight or both.

Morales washed up Zahir Raheem beat him easy for god sake

David Diaz very nearly lost to the washed up Morales

De la Hoya weight drained beyond belief had to be re hydrated by IV before fight

Hatton was basically done after Mayweather look at the Lazcano fight

Cotto already been demolished by Margarito and nearly lost to Clottey and had to weigh 145lbs

Clottey just came to survive 12 rounds had been beaten by Cotto already

Margarito had been demolished by Mosley in his fight before last and was having to come down to 150lbs

I think Floyds opponents and apparent circumstance in those fights are more of a joke. But even if you can take away these bits and pieces from the fights... HOW did Pac win? He came in there and TOOK the title from the opponents. Sorry but Baldomir Vs Mayweather will never go down as the "linear/unified title" being passed down. Not the same one that SRL, Starling, RayRob or Benitez fought for anyway.

With regards to Cotto and Clottey (highlighted): How can you draw a comparison by using one guys "near loss" to another guys "clear win"? Pick one way or the other. If that ain't straddling the fence I dunno what is..

Pac just proved he would take a paycheck that Mayweather was not willing to cash years ago. And I truly believe Margarito is a better fighter than he was 3-5 years ago. Marg would have been out in 3-4 back then against Pac.


My favorite thing about Pac Margarito? ... Roach said he would knock Marg out in the 3rd and he almost did (in the 4th). THAT is something you could definitely count Mayweather out of being about to do. And I think few people on here took Roach seriously when he said that.

[InTheNeutralCorner]

Taeth...great posts man. I am in awe at how much people are drinking the Pac kool aid. I have always been critical of Floyd's resume...but there is no question that he is the most gifted pure boxer in the sport. Bottom line for me...the last great, prime fighter Manny faced was Marquez. Juan showed how an intelligent and skilled fighter can exploit Manny. But the incredible hype on Pac has been based on his recent fights. These are all fighters that had big question marks going into their duel with Pac...but more importantly...they where handpicked because Pac had a CLEAR speed advantage. Despite that...Manny has still shown (even last night) that his defense is filled with holes. While his flurry of punches and action packed style is exciting...it can be tremendously exploited by a fighter that is skilled and fast. People keep pointing out that because Pac can take a punch from a bigger guy...this somehow translates to how will do against Floyd. Or better yet...because he can land combos on bums like Margo...he will do the same to Floyd?! Wake up sheep!!! It's easy to hit a slow, stationary target that comes forward. It's a whole other thing to hit probably the greatest defensive fighter of all time. Pac can fight one way. Floyd can adapt to anything. Floyd will do what Marquez did except 100 times more effectively. Mayweather will be content on picking Pac apart with laser like precision. He could care less about a brawl or war. He will put on a master class. But for some of you...you think a big win over a one dimensional, slow as molasses cheater is evidence of Pac winning??!!! Sure thing.

I have asked you this question before but you just ignored it. Or maybe you don't have the answer to the question ....
When did Pacquiao reach his prime and when did it start going down, or do you still consider him to be in his prime?
Now, some more questions ....
Is Marquez in his prime when he was beaten by Mayweather at a higher weight division?

[Apii911]

I have asked you this question before but you just ignored it. Or maybe you don't have the answer to the question ....
When did Pacquiao reach his prime and when did it start going down, or do you still consider him to be in his prime?
Now, some more questions ....
Is Marquez in his prime when he was beaten by Mayweather at a higher weight division?

May I interject? =)
If "in one's prime" means, at their best, their peak, their greatest physical potential yet...
I must disagree. I feel Marquez is past it.
He looks tired and old & drained, no matter the weight.
I think he needs to give it up; he put in too much against Pac;
I think he should pack it up & start sponsoring, pull a DeLa Hoya...
(Don't let my sex or age fool you ^.~)

[Apii911]

*DOUBLE POST-SORRY =)
Additively,
I personally feel Floyd & Pac are in their primes-
Floyd is dead in his prime; I don't think he's wasted yet
Pac looks like he's getting there-but then again maybe that's just his face lol
It may be irrelevant, but also, Cotto should have been in his prime now-he's only 30-
but I don't know what's wrong with him, though.
People argue Sugar Mosley was in his prime against Floyd-
look what happened.

[LukeH]

I still believe 100% Floyd beats Pac no problem i think Roach and Pacquiao just do a good job at fooling everyone end of the day these recent opponents have recently been beaten or have had to make a catchweight or both.

Morales washed up Zahir Raheem beat him easy for god sake

David Diaz very nearly lost to the washed up Morales

De la Hoya weight drained beyond belief had to be re hydrated by IV before fight

Hatton was basically done after Mayweather look at the Lazcano fight

Cotto already been demolished by Margarito and nearly lost to Clottey and had to weigh 145lbs

Clottey just came to survive 12 rounds had been beaten by Cotto already

Margarito had been demolished by Mosley in his fight before last and was having to come down to 150lbs

I think Floyds opponents and apparent circumstance in those fights are more of a joke. But even if you can take away these bits and pieces from the fights... HOW did Pac win? He came in there and TOOK the title from the opponents. Sorry but Baldomir Vs Mayweather will never go down as the "linear/unified title" being passed down. Not the same one that SRL, Starling, RayRob or Benitez fought for anyway.

With regards to Cotto and Clottey (highlighted): How can you draw a comparison by using one guys "near loss" to another guys "clear win"? Pick one way or the other. If that ain't straddling the fence I dunno what is..

Pac just proved he would take a paycheck that Mayweather was not willing to cash years ago. And I truly believe Margarito is a better fighter than he was 3-5 years ago. Marg would have been out in 3-4 back then against Pac.


My favorite thing about Pac Margarito? ... Roach said he would knock Marg out in the 3rd and he almost did (in the 4th). THAT is something you could definitely count Mayweather out of being about to do. And I think few people on here took Roach seriously when he said that.

In regards to Pac going in there and TAKING the title... in comparison to Floyd going in there and what Sneaking it out the back door? I dont see why people have to belittle one or the other just because they have different styles. Why can't you appreciate PBF going in there and outboxing opponents while barely receiving a scratch? The same as some people bashing Pac for whatever reason. It's ridiculous to be honest.

[generalbulldog]

TysonBruno's post makes the most sense and still is the best post in this thread. Fact.

[fan johnny]

I think, Mayweather is the best P4P 'defensive' fighter or this era and Pacquiao is the best P4P 'offensive' fighter of this era. They both have amazing resumes. Pacquiao's status continues to grow beyond that of Mayweather each time he steps into the ring. Mayweather is not exactly doing the same thing to his status.

I've thought Pacquiao would beat Mayweather on points before his fight with Margarito and still think he would do so if they ever the two get into the ring. The shots pacquiao took from Margarito were huge and he weathered them. I can't see Floyd slowing down Pacquiao even with his best pot shot. The thing is, Mayweather plays to the level of his competition. In order to win against Pacquiao, he would have to step up his game to another level. He cannot win against Pacquiao throwing 29 punches a round even, with 70% accuracy, hoping to reduce to Pacquiao's accuracy down lower than 30%.

Can you see Mayweather doing what he did to Mosley against Pacquiao? Mosley had absolutely no gas from the 3rd round on. What Pacquiao did against Margarito, should convince anyone that Mayweather's game plan against Mosley won't be what he uses against Pacquiao. Marquez is a completely different story. So your guess is as good as mine as to what strategy he'll use against Pacquiao. What ever does, it won't be easy.