Berto's corner was nonexistent

[Spicoli]

I have a question. Was the trainer even watching the fight or was he watching the clock? That corner was the very definition of incompetence. Guys fighting a south paw and not a peep about direction.

"I just need to show up" is not a strategy.

Also noticed he would stop talking at times when brother father started in, rather then ruffle feathers and take charge of the corner.

[MMASUX]

Yea i couldn't tell what the hell was going on in his corner. With his brother, and his trainer both talking it was hard for me to tell what they wanted him to do.

[Gocougars3]

[QUOTE=IamInuit;961538]I have a question. Was the trainer even watching the fight or was he watching the clock? That corner was the very definition of incompetence. Guys fighting a south paw and not a peep about direction.

I was surprised this hasn't been mentioned more. If you see the fight again, watch how often Ortiz establishes outside foot position and how often his right hand is outside Berto's left. He steps in, no jab, picks his lead foot up and over Berto's front foot and then rips a lead left to the chest followed by a right hook. Berto gets so tired of getting cut off he backs in to the middle rope, which is better than getting cut off in the corner.

Ortiz fought a classic southpaw's fight and Berto's corner had no answers.

[Taeth]

I have never seen a corner that disengaged, delirious and nonfunctional at this level in 40 years of following the sport. I'm sure their are others if I thought about it but Berto should shit can the entire lot imo.

Agreed, although Felix Trinidad's corner (particularly his dad) during his fight with Winky Wright fight should merit an "Honorable Mention", at least. Papa Trinidad seemed clueless, and offered no alternate plans for Tito to follow.

Yup no plan B. Shame as Tito was a good boxer earlier in his career which he rarely gets credit for. The moment his bone crushing power was discovered they abandoned boxing and began the plodding. I was a huge Tito fan, hell still am. Never liked the father son teams. Jack Mosley is another father who had no business in a corner.

Tito was never a pure boxer even early. People just didn't realize how lead leg heavy he was until later on in his career. If you made Trinidad have to pick up his feet and reset himself then he literally couldn't punch.

As for Berto, I honestly never liked his trainer. This kid has a tremendous athletic potential, and yet he gets hit all the time, he has no defense. He doesn't feint or change it up at all. I thought he had that ability because he showed some signs of defense in his career before, but it's getting worse and worse, and I hope this is a wake up call, he needs to change his trainer first, and then his whole structure second.

[Taeth]

[QUOTE=Gocougars3;961552]

I have a question. Was the trainer even watching the fight or was he watching the clock? That corner was the very definition of incompetence. Guys fighting a south paw and not a peep about direction.

I was surprised this hasn't been mentioned more. If you see the fight again, watch how often Ortiz establishes outside foot position and how often his right hand is outside Berto's left. He steps in, no jab, picks his lead foot up and over Berto's front foot and then rips a lead left to the chest followed by a right hook. Berto gets so tired of getting cut off he backs in to the middle rope, which is better than getting cut off in the corner.

Ortiz fought a classic southpaw's fight and Berto's corner had no answers.

Berto should have used that oppertunity to cut against the grain like Roy jones used to. Instead of trying to fight hard for outside position you can't cut back and land your lead hand, and once they trigger in on that hand then go back around to having the advantage of your lead foot outside theirs and land a big right hand. One big problem is that Berto fought like an amateur and ORtiz fought like a pro. Berto was trying to flail speed from the outside with no organizational skills, while Ortiz was trying to actually keep his composure and move with intent and determination.

[ElTerribleMorales]

IMO Berto's bad habits have finally come back to bite him in the ass, same thing with Lopez, Berto was happy fighting B level fighters and calling out the big names like Mayweather, Mosley, Pacquiao, and Cotto, yet would fight guys like Quintana, Freddy Hernandez, and Juan Urango (who would have been a good win at 140 and if he won like Alexander did), Berto IMO was never that good and too flawed for the big stage, Ortiz knocks him cold in a rematch

[fan johnny]

As if he had a corner before? Betro lost this fight because he got beat the shit out of by Ortiz. Corner or no corner he still gets ass beat.

[greynotsoold]

The whole idea about "how to fight a southpaw"- that being your left foot outside his right foot, throw the hook and straight right has been invented by people that don't and have never fought. When you are boxing, the idea is to get the inside punching position. By doing the above you surrender it. You put your lead hand- about 80% of your offense- outside his shoulder, where it can't land. You beat a southpaw by going to his left hand, making him throw it, then countering with left hooks or right uppercuts.
With Ortiz, you want him to establish that position- his right foot outside your left foot- because his left hand is weak, and because, and Berto hit him with this, once you go to his left he will flat turn around and follow you. He walks into the right hand. He got nailed doing this and went down, in the 6th, and Berto narrowly missed the same punch at least three more times. He was that close to winning.
They should have been telling Berto to slide right (not bail out like he often did) and hook of Ortiz's left, or make him turn and fire his right. Ortiz fought hard and clearly won, but he was never more than a punch away from it going the other way. Good drama.

[fan johnny]

IMO Berto's bad habits have finally come back to bite him in the ass, same thing with Lopez, Berto was happy fighting B level fighters and calling out the big names like Mayweather, Mosley, Pacquiao, and Cotto, yet would fight guys like Quintana, Freddy Hernandez, and Juan Urango (who would have been a good win at 140 and if he won like Alexander did), Berto IMO was never that good and too flawed for the big stage, Ortiz knocks him cold in a rematch

Berto didn't listen to his corner. Had he been listening he would have stopped looking for a knockout shot and boxed more, just like they were telling him to do, and got hit less. My guess is that Berto's mistake is he thinks all he has to do is load up and connect and the fight is over.

[marbleheadmaui]

I find this a rampant problem in the sport right now. Freddie Roach, Gabriel Sarmentio and Manny Stewart have calm corners and impart useful technical advice. But after that all you hear is "box him" or "throw more punches" type of advice delivered in a nervous pleading manner. Or you get th Berto everybody talk and nobody listen approach.

It's just awful.

[fan johnny]

I find this a rampant problem in the sport right now. Freddie Roach, Gabriel Sarmentio and Manny Stewart have calm corners and impart useful technical advice. But after that all you hear is "box him" or "throw more punches" type of advice delivered in a nervous pleading manner. Or you get th Berto everybody talk and nobody listen approach.

It's just awful.

You only get to hear partially what the corner is doing. Possibly the cameras listen in on a corner 4 times in the fight and a lot of the time it is not a complete audio. So how the hell can anyone make a judgment on what the corner is doing, when they are not there to know the complete situation.

[Hulk]

Honestly all I heard from the trainer was "Just box. Its that simple." When it was far from simple, Berto needed to stay off those fuckin ropes, stop loading up on one shot, go to the body, punch between Ortiz's punches, and set up a knockout, as he was way behind on the cards.

If nothing else, he needed to be told to stay off the ropes and stop loading up on one big shot.

[marbleheadmaui]

I find this a rampant problem in the sport right now. Freddie Roach, Gabriel Sarmentio and Manny Stewart have calm corners and impart useful technical advice. But after that all you hear is "box him" or "throw more punches" type of advice delivered in a nervous pleading manner. Or you get th Berto everybody talk and nobody listen approach.

It's just awful.

You only get to hear partially what the corner is doing. Possibly the cameras listen in on a corner 4 times in the fight and a lot of the time it is not a complete audio. So how the hell can anyone make a judgment on what the corner is doing, when they are not there to know the complete situation.

You really think we're not getting the good rounds, just the bad? Really? I grant your point about seeing only fragments, but I see no reason to believe they aren't representative.

[DogTheBountyHunter]

Berto's corner could do nothing. He maxed out where he could go in the sport. Berto is a flat footed fighter who relies on athleticism. End of story.

[fan johnny]

I find this a rampant problem in the sport right now. Freddie Roach, Gabriel Sarmentio and Manny Stewart have calm corners and impart useful technical advice. But after that all you hear is "box him" or "throw more punches" type of advice delivered in a nervous pleading manner. Or you get th Berto everybody talk and nobody listen approach.

It's just awful.

You only get to hear partially what the corner is doing. Possibly the cameras listen in on a corner 4 times in the fight and a lot of the time it is not a complete audio. So how the hell can anyone make a judgment on what the corner is doing, when they are not there to know the complete situation.

You really think we're not getting the good rounds, just the bad? Really? I grant your point about seeing only fragments, but I see no reason to believe they aren't representative.

Well.. What I heard was his corner, was pleading with him to box. When he boxed and kept Ortiz at a distance with his jab, he did well and was able to sit down when he threw his right.