Chavez Jr - Andy Lee / June 16th in Texas

[TitoFan]

Tito, I disagree with VD all the time, but I have to admit, Chavez is materializing into a real fighter. Consdering he's already beat Rubio and Zbik (close fight), if he beats Lee, he has better wins than anyone at middleweight other than Sturm and Martinez. Fine, it's a weak division, I don't necessarily agree with it, but for the sake of argument, let's say it is. Still, Chavez Jr. is doing what he can in his division. It's tough to be too upset with that.

Bro, this is the way you have boxing debates. Intelligently. Otherwise, it degrades into a series of insults that take away from the arguments, and end up boring everyone in the forum. Too bad some dudes don't see it that way.

Anyway, I'm not saying Chavez isn't a good fighter by now. Obviously, he's got to have learned quite a few lessons from his ever-increasing number of fights. My point is, and has always been, that his record is bloated. Why? Because he never had any amateur fights. And because he never had any amateur fights, they have carried him along to the point where he was fighting bums even after winning 30-some fights. Which is why you cannot fairly compare his record to the records of other fighters who have taken the traditional route: extensive amateur career. And when these fighters turn pro, they're soon fighting very good fighters. A traditional fighter with a 15-0 record has already faced dangerous veterans with very good records themselves. Yes, Chavez is doing what he can with his division. But why has he been steered clear of Martinez? Hell.... he's got the 45-0-1 record. He should be fighting King Kong by now. Why continue to carefully pick and choose?

Where we might disagree is in the strength of the division. You go up and down Chavez record and, other than the two you mentioned (Rubio and Zbik), there's nothing. And Rubio and Zbik are hardly household names. Is this Chavez's fault? No. But it IS Chavez (or his team's) fault that they haven't gone after Martinez. Not even a token statement to fool us boxing fans. Nothing.

Chavez is in the right place at the right time and, if he avoids going up or down to where more dangerous opposition might be lurking, he could very well (at his age) make a run at the fabled 100 wins that his dad reached. A dad, I might add, that didn't fight a warm body until after his 45th fight, although he then fought world class competition on his way to 100 wins.

I just hate when it's ONLY about the record rather than the record AND the quality of the competition. It's misleading and it's wrong.

Sergio was hardly fighting king kong at this point in his career either... Martinez fought his 45th pro fight against a guy with a record of 16-6! in fact go up and down Martinez record and look for anyone aside from Margarito (who he lost to), and you'll find nothing as well. where's martinez "token statement to fool us boxing fans"? was it his 40th pro fight against a guy who had a record of 1-7-2? or was it his 42nd fight against a guy with a record of 3-35-2?

Lee can surely been seen as as much of a challenge as Bunema (30-5-2 at the time of the fight with martinez). so maybe this is the start of Chavez Jr taking on top competition...

instead of thinking intelligently and comparing the two careers, you just wanna debase Chavez Jr even tho he's following a similar pattern to that of Martinez who you hold is such high esteem.

lets see what happens in the future....instead of just hating.

I don't applaud Martinez fighting such bums so late into his career anymore than I would applaud it for anyone. Not to pick on Argentinians, who have produced many great fighters in the past... but sometimes it seems fighters from other countries feast on local bums, sometimes never even leaving their home country, until they have a fattened record. That being said... the only solution to this dilemma lies in the ring. When the hell are Chavez and Martinez going to get together? Who's holding up the works? I'm sure Martinez is aching for the opportunity.

None of this makes Chavez any less guilty of what I've mentioned in the past. He was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, and has been coddled. I still maintain that it's hardly fair to compare records of a 45-0-1 fighter with no amateur career, and a bunch of bums on his record.... against a 25-1 or 30-2 fighter with a solid amateur career, and who has been fighting solid competition since before his 10th fight. What is so wrong about any of this?

And as to VD's claim that the Chavez name has nothing to do with this? Bullshit. It has everything to do with it. Name ONE other fighter without the Chavez name that has gotten to such an outlandish record, feasting on mostly bums, and gotten the attention he's getting from the networks. ONE. Not a very long list, is it.

Yes the boy has improved since his beginnings. Most good fighters do. If not, he'd be out of boxing by now. But that doesn't change the facts.