Chavez Jr - Andy Lee / June 16th in Texas

[Chino]

Another goldfish being fed to the......
Gee... I'm at a loss here. Can't very well compare Chavez Jr. to a shark. That would be insulting to "shark-kind".

Ok. Another goldfish being fed to the big grouper.

C'mon........ Lee? No offense to Lee fans, but... what credentials does Lee have that would make him a dangerous opponent to Baby Chavez? He's slow... he's clumsy... and not that hard to hit. What does he bring to the table for Chavez? He doesn't strike me as a particularly hard puncher. So he's slow, and not a big puncher. Seems tailor-made for Chavez Jr. Daddy must be pleased.

Then this fight would be fair since both guys are no good, don't you think?

I'm not saying Chavez is no good... I'm just saying he's not as good as his bloated record would indicate. Give me a 25-1 or 30-2 fighter who's faced the best competition out there... instead of a coddled 45-0-1 fighter, who's being spoon-fed carefully picked opponents..... any day of the week.

He's technically an amateur (since he has no amateur experience what so ever) facing guys who have 2 or 3 times his experience. I wonder if people would think different about him if he didn't have Chavez as his last name.

[TitoFan]

Another goldfish being fed to the......
Gee... I'm at a loss here. Can't very well compare Chavez Jr. to a shark. That would be insulting to "shark-kind".

Ok. Another goldfish being fed to the big grouper.

C'mon........ Lee? No offense to Lee fans, but... what credentials does Lee have that would make him a dangerous opponent to Baby Chavez? He's slow... he's clumsy... and not that hard to hit. What does he bring to the table for Chavez? He doesn't strike me as a particularly hard puncher. So he's slow, and not a big puncher. Seems tailor-made for Chavez Jr. Daddy must be pleased.

Then this fight would be fair since both guys are no good, don't you think?

I'm not saying Chavez is no good... I'm just saying he's not as good as his bloated record would indicate. Give me a 25-1 or 30-2 fighter who's faced the best competition out there... instead of a coddled 45-0-1 fighter, who's being spoon-fed carefully picked opponents..... any day of the week.

He's technically an amateur (since he has no amateur experience what so ever) facing guys who have 2 or 3 times his experience. I wonder if people would think different about him if he didn't have Chavez as his last name.

If he's technically an amateur, he shouldn't have a 45-0-1 record. It's misleading. It's insulting to those boxers who had an extensive amateur career and then turned pro. You don't see anybody adding their amateur victories to their pro record do you? It's like comparing apples and oranges. And really..... if he didn't have the Chavez last name, he would've never been allowed to amass such a pro record without fighting anyone with a pulse.

[Chino]

Another goldfish being fed to the......
Gee... I'm at a loss here. Can't very well compare Chavez Jr. to a shark. That would be insulting to "shark-kind".

Ok. Another goldfish being fed to the big grouper.

C'mon........ Lee? No offense to Lee fans, but... what credentials does Lee have that would make him a dangerous opponent to Baby Chavez? He's slow... he's clumsy... and not that hard to hit. What does he bring to the table for Chavez? He doesn't strike me as a particularly hard puncher. So he's slow, and not a big puncher. Seems tailor-made for Chavez Jr. Daddy must be pleased.

Then this fight would be fair since both guys are no good, don't you think?

I'm not saying Chavez is no good... I'm just saying he's not as good as his bloated record would indicate. Give me a 25-1 or 30-2 fighter who's faced the best competition out there... instead of a coddled 45-0-1 fighter, who's being spoon-fed carefully picked opponents..... any day of the week.

He's technically an amateur (since he has no amateur experience what so ever) facing guys who have 2 or 3 times his experience. I wonder if people would think different about him if he didn't have Chavez as his last name.

If he's technically an amateur, he shouldn't have a 45-0-1 record. It's misleading. It's insulting to those boxers who had an extensive amateur career and then turned pro. You don't see anybody adding their amateur victories to their pro record do you? It's like comparing apples and oranges. And really..... if he didn't have the Chavez last name, he would've never been allowed to amass such a pro record without fighting anyone with a pulse.

Then him beating pros who have 2 or 3 times experience should not be that bad, don't you think? Here we have an unexperienced young guy beating the well-experienced ones. I find it a bit silly too to have him headline PPV events but hey, he has the Chavez last name and that seems to sell unfortunately.

[Violent Demise]

Another goldfish being fed to the......
Gee... I'm at a loss here. Can't very well compare Chavez Jr. to a shark. That would be insulting to "shark-kind".

Ok. Another goldfish being fed to the big grouper.

C'mon........ Lee? No offense to Lee fans, but... what credentials does Lee have that would make him a dangerous opponent to Baby Chavez? He's slow... he's clumsy... and not that hard to hit. What does he bring to the table for Chavez? He doesn't strike me as a particularly hard puncher. So he's slow, and not a big puncher. Seems tailor-made for Chavez Jr. Daddy must be pleased.

Then this fight would be fair since both guys are no good, don't you think?

I'm not saying Chavez is no good... I'm just saying he's not as good as his bloated record would indicate. Give me a 25-1 or 30-2 fighter who's faced the best competition out there... instead of a coddled 45-0-1 fighter, who's being spoon-fed carefully picked opponents..... any day of the week.

He's technically an amateur (since he has no amateur experience what so ever) facing guys who have 2 or 3 times his experience. I wonder if people would think different about him if he didn't have Chavez as his last name.

If he's technically an amateur, he shouldn't have a 45-0-1 record. It's misleading. It's insulting to those boxers who had an extensive amateur career and then turned pro. You don't see anybody adding their amateur victories to their pro record do you? It's like comparing apples and oranges. And really..... if he didn't have the Chavez last name, he would've never been allowed to amass such a pro record without fighting anyone with a pulse.

Come the fuck on. Chavez name ain't got shit to do with it. That shit is done all the time in the South and Mid-West. They do it in other countries as well.

[TitoFan]

Another goldfish being fed to the......
Gee... I'm at a loss here. Can't very well compare Chavez Jr. to a shark. That would be insulting to "shark-kind".

Ok. Another goldfish being fed to the big grouper.

C'mon........ Lee? No offense to Lee fans, but... what credentials does Lee have that would make him a dangerous opponent to Baby Chavez? He's slow... he's clumsy... and not that hard to hit. What does he bring to the table for Chavez? He doesn't strike me as a particularly hard puncher. So he's slow, and not a big puncher. Seems tailor-made for Chavez Jr. Daddy must be pleased.

Then this fight would be fair since both guys are no good, don't you think?

I'm not saying Chavez is no good... I'm just saying he's not as good as his bloated record would indicate. Give me a 25-1 or 30-2 fighter who's faced the best competition out there... instead of a coddled 45-0-1 fighter, who's being spoon-fed carefully picked opponents..... any day of the week.

He's technically an amateur (since he has no amateur experience what so ever) facing guys who have 2 or 3 times his experience. I wonder if people would think different about him if he didn't have Chavez as his last name.

If he's technically an amateur, he shouldn't have a 45-0-1 record. It's misleading. It's insulting to those boxers who had an extensive amateur career and then turned pro. You don't see anybody adding their amateur victories to their pro record do you? It's like comparing apples and oranges. And really..... if he didn't have the Chavez last name, he would've never been allowed to amass such a pro record without fighting anyone with a pulse.

Come the fuck on. Chavez name ain't got shit to do with it. That shit is done all the time in the South and Mid-West. They do it in other countries as well.

Fascinating. It's always interesting to find out how boxing records are handled in other parts of the boxing world. Here in Puerto Rico, and very likely in other boxing rich places like Philly and other places along the eastern seaboard, you gotta have the quality opponents to go along with the gaudy record. Otherwise, it don't mean shit.

[Rantcatrat]

Tito, I disagree with VD all the time, but I have to admit, Chavez is materializing into a real fighter. Consdering he's already beat Rubio and Zbik (close fight), if he beats Lee, he has better wins than anyone at middleweight other than Sturm and Martinez. Fine, it's a weak division, I don't necessarily agree with it, but for the sake of argument, let's say it is. Still, Chavez Jr. is doing what he can in his division. It's tough to be too upset with that.

[TitoFan]

Tito, I disagree with VD all the time, but I have to admit, Chavez is materializing into a real fighter. Consdering he's already beat Rubio and Zbik (close fight), if he beats Lee, he has better wins than anyone at middleweight other than Sturm and Martinez. Fine, it's a weak division, I don't necessarily agree with it, but for the sake of argument, let's say it is. Still, Chavez Jr. is doing what he can in his division. It's tough to be too upset with that.

Bro, this is the way you have boxing debates. Intelligently. Otherwise, it degrades into a series of insults that take away from the arguments, and end up boring everyone in the forum. Too bad some dudes don't see it that way.

Anyway, I'm not saying Chavez isn't a good fighter by now. Obviously, he's got to have learned quite a few lessons from his ever-increasing number of fights. My point is, and has always been, that his record is bloated. Why? Because he never had any amateur fights. And because he never had any amateur fights, they have carried him along to the point where he was fighting bums even after winning 30-some fights. Which is why you cannot fairly compare his record to the records of other fighters who have taken the traditional route: extensive amateur career. And when these fighters turn pro, they're soon fighting very good fighters. A traditional fighter with a 15-0 record has already faced dangerous veterans with very good records themselves. Yes, Chavez is doing what he can with his division. But why has he been steered clear of Martinez? Hell.... he's got the 45-0-1 record. He should be fighting King Kong by now. Why continue to carefully pick and choose?

Where we might disagree is in the strength of the division. You go up and down Chavez record and, other than the two you mentioned (Rubio and Zbik), there's nothing. And Rubio and Zbik are hardly household names. Is this Chavez's fault? No. But it IS Chavez (or his team's) fault that they haven't gone after Martinez. Not even a token statement to fool us boxing fans. Nothing.

Chavez is in the right place at the right time and, if he avoids going up or down to where more dangerous opposition might be lurking, he could very well (at his age) make a run at the fabled 100 wins that his dad reached. A dad, I might add, that didn't fight a warm body until after his 45th fight, although he then fought world class competition on his way to 100 wins.

I just hate when it's ONLY about the record rather than the record AND the quality of the competition. It's misleading and it's wrong.

[Rantcatrat]

Tito, I disagree with VD all the time, but I have to admit, Chavez is materializing into a real fighter. Consdering he's already beat Rubio and Zbik (close fight), if he beats Lee, he has better wins than anyone at middleweight other than Sturm and Martinez. Fine, it's a weak division, I don't necessarily agree with it, but for the sake of argument, let's say it is. Still, Chavez Jr. is doing what he can in his division. It's tough to be too upset with that.

Bro, this is the way you have boxing debates. Intelligently. Otherwise, it degrades into a series of insults that take away from the arguments, and end up boring everyone in the forum. Too bad some dudes don't see it that way.

Anyway, I'm not saying Chavez isn't a good fighter by now. Obviously, he's got to have learned quite a few lessons from his ever-increasing number of fights. My point is, and has always been, that his record is bloated. Why? Because he never had any amateur fights. And because he never had any amateur fights, they have carried him along to the point where he was fighting bums even after winning 30-some fights. Which is why you cannot fairly compare his record to the records of other fighters who have taken the traditional route: extensive amateur career. And when these fighters turn pro, they're soon fighting very good fighters. A traditional fighter with a 15-0 record has already faced dangerous veterans with very good records themselves. Yes, Chavez is doing what he can with his division. But why has he been steered clear of Martinez? Hell.... he's got the 45-0-1 record. He should be fighting King Kong by now. Why continue to carefully pick and choose?

Where we might disagree is in the strength of the division. You go up and down Chavez record and, other than the two you mentioned (Rubio and Zbik), there's nothing. And Rubio and Zbik are hardly household names. Is this Chavez's fault? No. But it IS Chavez (or his team's) fault that they haven't gone after Martinez. Not even a token statement to fool us boxing fans. Nothing.

Chavez is in the right place at the right time and, if he avoids going up or down to where more dangerous opposition might be lurking, he could very well (at his age) make a run at the fabled 100 wins that his dad reached. A dad, I might add, that didn't fight a warm body until after his 45th fight, although he then fought world class competition on his way to 100 wins.

I just hate when it's ONLY about the record rather than the record AND the quality of the competition. It's misleading and it's wrong.

I don't disagree. My only point is that if he beats Lee, it's hard not to consider him a legitimate middleweight. What I don't like about Chavez is that he's taken ped's in the past and might still be doing so. If he beats Lee decisively, I actually think I may give him a legit chance at beating Sergio.

[ruthless rocco]

Tito, I disagree with VD all the time, but I have to admit, Chavez is materializing into a real fighter. Consdering he's already beat Rubio and Zbik (close fight), if he beats Lee, he has better wins than anyone at middleweight other than Sturm and Martinez. Fine, it's a weak division, I don't necessarily agree with it, but for the sake of argument, let's say it is. Still, Chavez Jr. is doing what he can in his division. It's tough to be too upset with that.

Bro, this is the way you have boxing debates. Intelligently. Otherwise, it degrades into a series of insults that take away from the arguments, and end up boring everyone in the forum. Too bad some dudes don't see it that way.

Anyway, I'm not saying Chavez isn't a good fighter by now. Obviously, he's got to have learned quite a few lessons from his ever-increasing number of fights. My point is, and has always been, that his record is bloated. Why? Because he never had any amateur fights. And because he never had any amateur fights, they have carried him along to the point where he was fighting bums even after winning 30-some fights. Which is why you cannot fairly compare his record to the records of other fighters who have taken the traditional route: extensive amateur career. And when these fighters turn pro, they're soon fighting very good fighters. A traditional fighter with a 15-0 record has already faced dangerous veterans with very good records themselves. Yes, Chavez is doing what he can with his division. But why has he been steered clear of Martinez? Hell.... he's got the 45-0-1 record. He should be fighting King Kong by now. Why continue to carefully pick and choose?

Where we might disagree is in the strength of the division. You go up and down Chavez record and, other than the two you mentioned (Rubio and Zbik), there's nothing. And Rubio and Zbik are hardly household names. Is this Chavez's fault? No. But it IS Chavez (or his team's) fault that they haven't gone after Martinez. Not even a token statement to fool us boxing fans. Nothing.

Chavez is in the right place at the right time and, if he avoids going up or down to where more dangerous opposition might be lurking, he could very well (at his age) make a run at the fabled 100 wins that his dad reached. A dad, I might add, that didn't fight a warm body until after his 45th fight, although he then fought world class competition on his way to 100 wins.

I just hate when it's ONLY about the record rather than the record AND the quality of the competition. It's misleading and it's wrong.

Sergio was hardly fighting king kong at this point in his career either... Martinez fought his 45th pro fight against a guy with a record of 16-6! in fact go up and down Martinez record and look for anyone aside from Margarito (who he lost to), and you'll find nothing as well. where's martinez "token statement to fool us boxing fans"? was it his 40th pro fight against a guy who had a record of 1-7-2? or was it his 42nd fight against a guy with a record of 3-35-2?

Lee can surely been seen as as much of a challenge as Bunema (30-5-2 at the time of the fight with martinez). so maybe this is the start of Chavez Jr taking on top competition...

instead of thinking intelligently and comparing the two careers, you just wanna debase Chavez Jr even tho he's following a similar pattern to that of Martinez who you hold is such high esteem.

lets see what happens in the future....instead of just hating.

[Rantcatrat]

Tito, I disagree with VD all the time, but I have to admit, Chavez is materializing into a real fighter. Consdering he's already beat Rubio and Zbik (close fight), if he beats Lee, he has better wins than anyone at middleweight other than Sturm and Martinez. Fine, it's a weak division, I don't necessarily agree with it, but for the sake of argument, let's say it is. Still, Chavez Jr. is doing what he can in his division. It's tough to be too upset with that.

Bro, this is the way you have boxing debates. Intelligently. Otherwise, it degrades into a series of insults that take away from the arguments, and end up boring everyone in the forum. Too bad some dudes don't see it that way.

Anyway, I'm not saying Chavez isn't a good fighter by now. Obviously, he's got to have learned quite a few lessons from his ever-increasing number of fights. My point is, and has always been, that his record is bloated. Why? Because he never had any amateur fights. And because he never had any amateur fights, they have carried him along to the point where he was fighting bums even after winning 30-some fights. Which is why you cannot fairly compare his record to the records of other fighters who have taken the traditional route: extensive amateur career. And when these fighters turn pro, they're soon fighting very good fighters. A traditional fighter with a 15-0 record has already faced dangerous veterans with very good records themselves. Yes, Chavez is doing what he can with his division. But why has he been steered clear of Martinez? Hell.... he's got the 45-0-1 record. He should be fighting King Kong by now. Why continue to carefully pick and choose?

Where we might disagree is in the strength of the division. You go up and down Chavez record and, other than the two you mentioned (Rubio and Zbik), there's nothing. And Rubio and Zbik are hardly household names. Is this Chavez's fault? No. But it IS Chavez (or his team's) fault that they haven't gone after Martinez. Not even a token statement to fool us boxing fans. Nothing.

Chavez is in the right place at the right time and, if he avoids going up or down to where more dangerous opposition might be lurking, he could very well (at his age) make a run at the fabled 100 wins that his dad reached. A dad, I might add, that didn't fight a warm body until after his 45th fight, although he then fought world class competition on his way to 100 wins.

I just hate when it's ONLY about the record rather than the record AND the quality of the competition. It's misleading and it's wrong.

At the end of the day, if he's facing good competition now, let's applaud it, as long as he's doing it drug free. It's hilarious that there are posters on this board that call Pac, Pacroid, when he has never been caught, and Junior has actually been caught, but it seems to fly under the radar. It's a shame that the Texas Commission didn't have it together to drug test Rubio and Junior after that fight because it actually hurts Junior's reputation if he had been clean. Given that he was in a DUI a few weeks before and then the weight loss, coupled with his history, it just adds to the skepticism that something is afoul with him.

I don't really see the point of denigrating Junior if he is clean and stepping up his game. He's taking on legitimate challengers now. If his progress recedes, let's reconsider him, but for now, he's doing what he should be doing. He was ducking Martinez for a while, but it appears the tide may be changing, with this Lee fight, and the winner being mandatory for Martinez.

Here's a story on Martinez being on ESPN Deportes and his involvement with organizations that are against domestic violence: http://www.boxingtalk.com/pag/article.php?aid=23186

[Master]

Another goldfish being fed to the......
Gee... I'm at a loss here. Can't very well compare Chavez Jr. to a shark. That would be insulting to "shark-kind".

Ok. Another goldfish being fed to the big grouper.

C'mon........ Lee? No offense to Lee fans, but... what credentials does Lee have that would make him a dangerous opponent to Baby Chavez? He's slow... he's clumsy... and not that hard to hit. What does he bring to the table for Chavez? He doesn't strike me as a particularly hard puncher. So he's slow, and not a big puncher. Seems tailor-made for Chavez Jr. Daddy must be pleased.

Then this fight would be fair since both guys are no good, don't you think?

I'm not saying Chavez is no good... I'm just saying he's not as good as his bloated record would indicate. Give me a 25-1 or 30-2 fighter who's faced the best competition out there... instead of a coddled 45-0-1 fighter, who's being spoon-fed carefully picked opponents..... any day of the week.

He's technically an amateur (since he has no amateur experience what so ever) facing guys who have 2 or 3 times his experience. I wonder if people would think different about him if he didn't have Chavez as his last name.

Carrying his dads name is a burden because he will never ever live up to that legendary status. Junior is an OK fighter that is all.