Barker v Martinez 1st Oct

[Rantcatrat]

He's only won his last two fights easily. He lost to Williams the first time, and Pavlik was competitive until the last four rounds, that was a hard fight.

@Rantcatrat, I do give hij credit for taking on decent opposition, but really his opposition hasn't been that impressive in comparison to others.

Ward has completely dominated Kessler and Abraham and easily got past Allan Green and Sakio Bikz too. To me his resume is more impressive and he's a better fighter. In a p4p fight I think Ward takes Martinez to school. He's far too easy to hit.

Froch in successive fights has fought Pascal, Jermain Taylor, Dirrel, Kessler, Abraham AND Glen Johnson, and gone 5-1, to me his resume is also superior.

Tim Bradley hasn't yet had a defining fight but he's been dominating everyone he's fought. If him and Khan meet the winner will have done as much as Martinez also.

I just don't see why going 1-1 with Paul Williams and outpointing Pavlik, both fighters who had already been beat is such a momentous thing, worthy of him being seen as the second best fighter on the planet.

It seems that a one punch ko of Paul Williams, arguably the easiest man to hit in all of boxing has made a monster out of Martinez.

It's no different to Juan Manuel Lopez annihilaitng Ponce De Leon in one round and then battering his next several opponents in onesided fights. Turned out he wasnt't actually the unstoppable force when he got stopped last time out.

Martinez has looked good...so far, but he's not fought any elite fighters in form yet. He holds his hands low, he gets hit often and he's 35. It could easily turn around for him and you might see him getting ko'd in an unlikely upset, or else outboxed by a skilled technician who really fancies his chances and ian't intimidated. A few years ago everyone on here was jumping on the Christian Mijares bandwagon and well, look how that turned out, have his last 3 or 4 fights even been televised?

In Martinez I just don't see a fighter on the level of a Manny, Mayweather, Hopkins or Jones jr, or even a Calzaghe, Mosley, Marquez, Morales, Barrera etc. He's decent, sure, but he's beaten nobody to justify a top 2 p4p spot imo. He is there, quite honestly, because most of the top fighters have recently retired and we are waiting whilst new stars build their resumes.

Martinez won't last once a new force arrives is my prediction. And he won't find Barker a walkover either.

We're going to have to agree to disagree. However, before I go further, in the sake of progressing with the argument, what fights would you like to see Sergio take to merit his p4p ranking?

I'll explain why people rank Sergio so high, first in what he has done himself, and then in relation to what other people have done. At the time that Paul Williams fought Sergio Martinez he was a top 5 p4p fighter and dubbed the most "feared fighter on the planet" and at the time he fought Kelly Pavlik he was the lineal middleweight champion. Add to that the facts that he is a multi-division champ and the serious manner in which he dispels his opponents and you and you have the reasons why he is ranked as high as he is.

Now, you may say that Kelly Pavlik wasn't all that NOW, but at the time, he was perceived to be a beast. He had only lost to Bernard Hopkins and that was at 10 pounds above the weight class he ha fought his career at. Pavlik had recently destroyed the best middleweight in the world in Jermain Taylor. Now, since then, Kelly Pavlik has lost his career in the bottle and hasn't looked as good, but at the time, without 20/20 hindsight, he was looked at as a beast. Go read articles about Kelly Pavlik two years ago and you'll see that is evident.

You'll find the same about Paul Williams. Without 20/20 hindsight, when Sergio fought Paul Williams, Paul had destroyed Winky Wright, Carlos Quintana and Verno Phillips. He looked like a beast. Now, Sergio may have destroyed Paul Williams in the same way that Joe Calzaghe destroyed Lacy because Paul Williams hasn't looked the same since.

Sergiy Dzinziruk, by boxing heads, was known to be the best at 154. Cotto may be ranked #1, but most people believed that Sergiy deserved that. Angulo and Williams declined to fight him when given the chance. Sergio dominated and destroyed the top 154 in the world.

The difference between Ward and Froch and Martinez is that Froch and Ward have done all their business at one weight class, and even their wins aren't in that one weight class spectacular. Who is Froch's best win? Who is Ward's? Ward's was definitely Kessler and Froch's was Pascal. Neither of them was remotely close to a top ten p4p spot when Ward or Froch them or even in the case of Froch, the top of the division when they he fought them. Kessler's best victory is over Froch. Kessler is famous because he lost to Calzaghe and was competitive for the first 4 rounds. Ward is a better argument. Neither of them has even beat the man in their division at this point. The top 3 in their division are Bute, Ward, and Froch. In my opinion, when one of them beats one of the others, they then deserve mention. So, the winner of Ward and Froch, should be a p4p fighter. I'm not trying to take down Froch or Ward. They are both great fighters and are top 20 p4p. I'd probably put Ward in the top ten really.

Also, where Ward and Froch have won, they haven't won big. When was the last time Froch had a jaw dropping knockout or a Joe Calzaghe-Jeff Lacy type dominating win? He hasn't. When was the last time Ward dropped anyone? Hell, when was the last time Carl Froch or Andre Ward even knocked anyone out? Ward couldn't even take a tired Miranda out if I recall. Sergio Martinez beats people in style and it is always fun to watch. Bute does the same thing although against lesser competition. Nonito does the same thing and against comparable competition (at least the KO over Montiel). Knockouts like theirs make stars.

Lastly, You mentioned Sergio Martinez in the same breadth as Marquez, Pacquiao, Mayweather, Calzaghe, etc., the best fighters of the last decade. That is a compliment in and of itself. I agree he isn't there yet and he may never be. He's already 36 in any event. Have no fear, he won't be top 2 for very long, as soon as Mayweather beats Ortiz, he'll be number 3.

One more thing, I think you have an argument with Tim Bradley. He's moved up in weight (for one fight) and fought the best at his weight class sans Khan.