The whole of london is kicking off!!!!!!!

[Fenster]

Have these riots changed your views on gun ownership?

Yes. Thank fuck we can't legally own guns. There would have literally been dozens shot dead.

[Gandalf]

Have these riots changed your views on gun ownership?

Who? Me?

Absolutely not! You give these nutters guns and everybody else guns and you would have civil war. I'm serious, this is not America where you are too heavy to get off of an armchair, many British people can still walk as you can see. Iraq war protests, student cuts protests.....American's have lost their legs and it is nothing to do with guns.

The UK is screwed not because of a lack of guns, but because of careless and stupid social policies (reducing teacher and police power), lack of control over immigration and a current desire to strip back the state. What the UK has is a huge subculture of alienation and it is revolting. But for all the wrong and selfish reasons. It is probably Thatcherism brought to its ultimate conclusion.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

Miles, why Thatcherism?

Adam GREAT post mate.

[El Kabong]

Have these riots changed your views on gun ownership?

Yes. Thank fuck we can't legally own guns. There would have literally been dozens shot dead.

LEGAL gun ownership is a GOOD thing....geez your minds have really been poisoned by your politicians

So dozens of hoodlums and rioting thugs would have been shot dead....I fail to see the downside

[Gandalf]

Miles, why Thatcherism?

Adam GREAT post mate.

Not just Thatcher, but clearly Blair too.

Thatcher was the great architect of the individualisation process whilst Blair was the great expansionist of immigration and free for all handouts, but the ultimate consequece of that individualisation process is what we have today. Fractured communities with no sense of unity or purpsose. Just selfish people out for what they can get. Sure there are great people out there too, but they don't get the same benefits or advantages. All the rot started in the 1980's and that was the age of Thatcherism. It is in the blood now and can only be reversed by generation after generation of serious social policy making. That means giving back power to teachers and police officers and also going back to the importance of the family unit. Make it pay for children to be born into loving families and don't let cheap single mothers get away with raising dross.

The modern process of caring for the self was started by Thatcher politics, the second programme of doing as little as possible to "get what I want" came under Labour. Both have proven a sham. It is time to get some reality into how Britain is run. Stop the rot from beneath and from above. That means facing up to reality and I'm not sure Britain is able to.

It seems like the rot has truly been allowed to set in and linger. You can't really commit mass genocide against a sector of your population. That is kind of Hitler-esque.

[Gandalf]

I would further it all with serious government policy too, and that includes the nationalisation of all public services. Make bills cheaper, make public transport cheaper, make education better rather than this academy crap. Honestly it isn't that hard to improve the UK, but it does mean moving away from corporate interests and actually having concern for your citizens over the concerns of economic growth or protecting particular corporations. Guns are irrelevant, but serious investment into local communities is a must.

This nonsense about cutbacks is just bullshit. It is all because of the financial meltdown and it's all just an excuse for austerity. It is a hoax, the banks themselves should all be nationalised too and be made to serve in the public interest. Governments have been more concerned with growth and that has included encouraging people to live on credit and make themselves poor. It's utter crap really. Ban all credit cards and allow every person to own only one house.

[Gandalf]

And yes, I know my views are pointless with a Tory leadership, but they would lead to a better, fairer and cheaper country.

[El Kabong]

And yes, I know my views are pointless with a Tory leadership, but they would lead to a better, fairer and cheaper country.

Britain's youth have no respect for authority because the government has given the spoiled brats everything they've wanted and more since WWII, and now when cuts simply HAVE to be made the citizens throw temper tantrums or what are called 'extinction bursts' in psychology.

[generalbulldog]

Have these riots changed your views on gun ownership?

Who? Me?

Absolutely not! You give these nutters guns and everybody else guns and you would have civil war. I'm serious, this is not America where you are too heavy to get off of an armchair, many British people can still walk as you can see. Iraq war protests, student cuts protests.....American's have lost their legs and it is nothing to do with guns.

The UK is screwed not because of a lack of guns, but because of careless and stupid social policies (reducing teacher and police power), lack of control over immigration and a current desire to strip back the state. What the UK has is a huge subculture of alienation and it is revolting. But for all the wrong and selfish reasons. It is probably Thatcherism brought to its ultimate conclusion.

I don't know if it's Thatcherism, it could be something else. I found these 2 responses while I was reading the comment section of an article about the riots. I found it to be really interesting and I think it possibly could hold some merit.

God I don't live in the UK anymore it is a different country from the one I left in the 'swinging sixties' . - smokingetna, Sicily, 10/8/2011 10:12

I think what we have now is a by-product of the 'swinging sixties'. In my aged opinion, all our modern day societal troubles are a result of the breakdown of the moral fabric of society. The youth of the 60s turned their backs on what they perceived as a stuffy, old-fashioned moralistic society. Instead they sought social freedom and self-pleasure. They became known as the 'have it all' generation. However, they failed to realise that some of those old-fashioned ideals were there for a very good reason.
- Richard Moore, Leicester, UK, 10/8/2011

I do know that after the 60s counter culture revolution and a rebellion of conservative social mores of the past generation that American society did degenerate into a level of debauchery not seen by any generation before it. Generation X born around '65 to '77 in America, especially when they were young adults and adolescents in the '80s had higher rates of delinquency, higher rates of high school dropouts, higher rates of illicit drug use, higher rates of teen pregnancy, overall just a higher number of fuckups. I also remember reading about the overall crime rates from the FBI by decade clearly showed the 80s and 90s had higher numbers of overall crime committed by this group. Generation Y of course, this generation is clearly much worse.

I would probably need to search the internet for these studies. But I'm pretty certain that a rejection of the old moralistic social mores have led to this current generation of degenerates that are so prevalent not only in the UK but also the US.

[Gandalf]

And yes, I know my views are pointless with a Tory leadership, but they would lead to a better, fairer and cheaper country.

Britain's youth have no respect for authority because the government has given the spoiled brats everything they've wanted and more since WWII, and now when cuts simply HAVE to be made the citizens throw temper tantrums or what are called 'extinction bursts' in psychology.

That is bullshit.

They have not been given what they want since WW2. These are criminals, you have them in every major city of your country. But they have now come out here.

Cuts do not need to be made, but cuts to these people in a direct way do need to be made.

Let's not compare our countries either. Yours is disgusting with your President Obama, illegal wars and illegal torture. And you want a say on British society? Keep on torturing inocent people and pretending life is okay....your time will be next. You can barely seem to agree on paying off the bail merchants.

And yes, we all know you people can barely walk like the people in the wonderful film Wall E. Your future rests only on your ability to protect your own elite by force and by killing brown people.

Your time is coming, this will happen to America and I won't take much pleasure in it either, unless they target the real morons who started it.

But they won't, they will likely ambush a hamburger.

[Gandalf]

And GB that is perhaps the case, maybe it goes further back, but either way we can all see that what we have is a disaster. I believe my left wing politics is a way to bring society together, but it will take generations, but what has taken little time is this thing we have for society today to fall apart. The age of cut backs and austerity on those who don't really take that much is just a cunt move, the best way to improve society is to invest and talk to those within and it seems this government has done the opposite.

They do really deserve all they have recieved and if it hasn't woken them up, then I would like to see more intelligent people now realising that they too need to take to the streets. It took this to do this and yet they couldn't stop the Iraq war? Utter bullshit!

The British public needs to watch and learn and never let their government get away with anything again.

[marbleheadmaui]

Have these riots changed your views on gun ownership?

Yes. Thank fuck we can't legally own guns. There would have literally been dozens shot dead.

LEGAL gun ownership is a GOOD thing....geez your minds have really been poisoned by your politicians

So dozens of hoodlums and rioting thugs would have been shot dead....I fail to see the downside

It's just staggering isn't it? These goons have been running amok for what? Four nights now? The police clearly cannot handle it, the army hasn't been deployed and people STILL maintain that the innocent should rely on governement to protect them?

The willingness of people to keep their fellow citizens helpless in the face of evil never ceases to amaze.

Had 3-4 of these thugs been gunned down on the first night by people defending their property and lives? This crap would have petered out pretty quick. Hell, had people simply fired over the heads of these groups they likely run.

Why are these thugs running amok? BECAUSE IT IS RISKLESS TO DO SO!

[El Kabong]

And yes, I know my views are pointless with a Tory leadership, but they would lead to a better, fairer and cheaper country.

Britain's youth have no respect for authority because the government has given the spoiled brats everything they've wanted and more since WWII, and now when cuts simply HAVE to be made the citizens throw temper tantrums or what are called 'extinction bursts' in psychology.

That is bullshit.

They have not been given what they want since WW2. These are criminals, you have them in every major city of your country. But they have now come out here.

Cuts do not need to be made, but cuts to these people in a direct way do need to be made.

Let's not compare our countries either. Yours is disgusting with your President Obama, illegal wars and illegal torture. And you want a say on British society? Keep on torturing inocent people and pretending life is okay....your time will be next. You can barely seem to agree on paying off the bail merchants.

And yes, we all know you people can barely walk like the people in the wonderful film Wall E. Your future rests only on your ability to protect your own elite by force and by killing brown people.

Your time is coming, this will happen to America and I won't take much pleasure in it either, unless they target the real morons who started it.

But they won't, they will likely ambush a hamburger.

Ha....you know I bet if these rioters were Irish they'd have been shot by now.

[El Kabong]

I agree with GB, the lack of proper parenting and respect of authority have created this along with ......the Nanny State, oh yes...don't you worry little England, Big Mama Government will swoop in and give you your passy soon enough, you just let those tears out.

[El Kabong]