30 Seconds With Ruben Olivares

[marbleheadmaui]

Soo Hwan Hong knocks out the overrated Olivares.

Zarate/Olivares would have been cool.

I also think Ruben Olivares is overrated, his prime was just too short. And when he was still in his prime he lost twice to Rafael Herrera convincingly, and didn't make a succesful move moving up in weight either.

First off Hererra was one hell of a fighter, no shame there. Secondly since when is becoming champion after moving up not succeeding?

It also baffles me how one can "overrate" the best of the greatest era of bantams.

Because on alot of rankings he's rated the Best Bantamweight of all time, aswell as the best Mexican fighter of all time. That simply isn't true and im not slating Rafael Herrera, he was a very good fighter.

But the fact remains he beat Ruben Olivares in his prime twice, and twice he proved he was clearly the better man without controversy.

I think there were plenty of better Mexican fighters.

Salvador Sanchez
Julio Cesar Chavez
MAB
Erik Morales
Juan Manuel Marquez
Miguel Canto
Vincente Saldivar
Ricardo Lopez

And better Bantamweights P4P

Jeff Chandler
Carlos Zarate
Eder Jofre
Orlando Canizales

To say we disagree would be an understatement. In my view he is the #2 Mexican fighter and no worse than the #2 bantam.

For example, you say Olivares lost twoice to Herrera, yet somehow don't mention Chandler, another great fighter, lost twice to a fighter who couldn't carry Rafael's jock in Richie Sandoval.

To have Orlando Canizales, who defeated fewer than five ranked guys in his career on this list is a joke as near as I can tell.

Well there you go thats exactly my point, you rate him as this and that. Which is exactly why i think he is overrated.

Jeff Chandler only lost once to Rinchie Sandoval, and wasn't interested in the fight and looked very lacklusture. Which is why he retired soon after and also because of his detatched retina.

That wasn't his prime unlike Ruben Olivares, clearly losing twice in his prime actually 3 times including his loss to Castillo.

That's why i said P4P meaning in head to head match ups, not comparing there actual career's. And yes i do think a prime Olrando Canizales wins, he was a fantastic fighter at using angles and was the complete package.

Well wait a minute. Jeff Chandler reitres at TWENTY SEVEN and he wasn't in his prime??

But it's sorta moot. If your criteria is your own guesswork of how head to head matchups would go? No point in talking about it. It's just guessing.

But even by that non-criteria, Canizales?? Who the hell did he ever beat that could give any confidence he could handle a great fighter? Bones Adams?

[ICB]

Soo Hwan Hong knocks out the overrated Olivares.

Zarate/Olivares would have been cool.

I also think Ruben Olivares is overrated, his prime was just too short. And when he was still in his prime he lost twice to Rafael Herrera convincingly, and didn't make a succesful move moving up in weight either.

First off Hererra was one hell of a fighter, no shame there. Secondly since when is becoming champion after moving up not succeeding?

It also baffles me how one can "overrate" the best of the greatest era of bantams.

Because on alot of rankings he's rated the Best Bantamweight of all time, aswell as the best Mexican fighter of all time. That simply isn't true and im not slating Rafael Herrera, he was a very good fighter.

But the fact remains he beat Ruben Olivares in his prime twice, and twice he proved he was clearly the better man without controversy.

I think there were plenty of better Mexican fighters.

Salvador Sanchez
Julio Cesar Chavez
MAB
Erik Morales
Juan Manuel Marquez
Miguel Canto
Vincente Saldivar
Ricardo Lopez

And better Bantamweights P4P

Jeff Chandler
Carlos Zarate
Eder Jofre
Orlando Canizales

To say we disagree would be an understatement. In my view he is the #2 Mexican fighter and no worse than the #2 bantam.

For example, you say Olivares lost twoice to Herrera, yet somehow don't mention Chandler, another great fighter, lost twice to a fighter who couldn't carry Rafael's jock in Richie Sandoval.

To have Orlando Canizales, who defeated fewer than five ranked guys in his career on this list is a joke as near as I can tell.

Well there you go thats exactly my point, you rate him as this and that. Which is exactly why i think he is overrated.

Jeff Chandler only lost once to Rinchie Sandoval, and wasn't interested in the fight and looked very lacklusture. Which is why he retired soon after and also because of his detatched retina.

That wasn't his prime unlike Ruben Olivares, clearly losing twice in his prime actually 3 times including his loss to Castillo.

That's why i said P4P meaning in head to head match ups, not comparing there actual career's. And yes i do think a prime Olrando Canizales wins, he was a fantastic fighter at using angles and was the complete package.

Well wait a minute. Jeff Chandler reitres at TWENTY SEVEN and he wasn't in his prime??

But it's sorta moot. If your criteria is your own guesswork of how head to head matchups would go? No point in talking about it. It's just guessing.

But even by that non-criteria, Canizales?? Who the hell did he ever beat that could give any confidence he could handle a great fighter? Bones Adams?

What has age got to do with anything ? Mike Tyson's prime ended in his early 20's, Donald Curry's prime ended when he was 26, Riddick Bowe was shot at 28.

Your also forgetting the detatched retina, and all you have to do is watch the fight. To see he was lazy and disinterested, it was hardly the same Jeff Chandler who was awesome vs Gaby Canizales, and Gaby Canizales himself tortured Richie Sandoval when they met.

Orlando Canizales never beat a great fighter, but he beat some solid fighters. You could say that about other long championship reigns, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't do well in head to head match ups.

Orlando Canizales was very gifted and was never beaten convincingly by anyone, he also deserved the win vs Wilfredo Vasquez when he moved up in weight.

[CutMeMick]

A part of me just died slowly as I read this thread...

[ICB]

A part of me just died slowly as I read this thread...

I don't know why all i've said is that i don't think Ruben Olivares, is the number 1 Mexican fighter. IMO i've seen plenty of better Mexican fighters aswell as Mexican fighters with better records.

He was very good for short period then he lost twice to Rafael Herrera convincingly, in his prime and at his peak weight. And then moved up in weight and lost to pretty much every elite Featherweight except Bobby Chacon.

I just go by what i've seen and know, and in my personal opinion i think fighters like Sanchez, Zarate, Barrera, Morales, Marquez, ETC. Are greater fighters.

[FinitoElDinamita]

ICB hit the nail on the head..

[Scrap]

Only one thing beat olivares, Cocaine, great Fighter.

[CutMeMick]

Only one thing beat olivares, Cocaine, great Fighter.

With a mixture of alcohol...

[CutMeMick]

A part of me just died slowly as I read this thread...

I don't know why all i've said is that i don't think Ruben Olivares, is the number 1 Mexican fighter. IMO i've seen plenty of better Mexican fighters aswell as Mexican fighters with better records.

He was very good for short period then he lost twice to Rafael Herrera convincingly, in his prime and at his peak weight. And then moved up in weight and lost to pretty much every elite Featherweight except Bobby Chacon.

I just go by what i've seen and know, and in my personal opinion i think fighters like Sanchez, Zarate, Barrera, Morales, Marquez, ETC. Are greater fighters.

The words overrated & Olivares just don't click... Which is why I made my comment.
Ruben fought in argueably the best Bantam generation we have seen in a shit load of years.

[THE THIRD MAN]

A part of me just died slowly as I read this thread...

I don't know why all i've said is that i don't think Ruben Olivares, is the number 1 Mexican fighter. IMO i've seen plenty of better Mexican fighters aswell as Mexican fighters with better records.

He was very good for short period then he lost twice to Rafael Herrera convincingly, in his prime and at his peak weight. And then moved up in weight and lost to pretty much every elite Featherweight except Bobby Chacon.

I just go by what i've seen and know, and in my personal opinion i think fighters like Sanchez, Zarate, Barrera, Morales, Marquez, ETC. Are greater fighters.

The words overrated & Olivares just don't click... Which is why I made my comment.
Ruben fought in argueably the best Bantam generation we have seen in a shit load of years.

Agreed, he fought the best out there in a divison that was stacked with hard hitting Mexicans and slick boxers from all over the place. Castillo (a great trilogy), Herrera, Pimental, Medal, Rose etc
These were the days when fighters fought every month, Olivares had 13 fights in 1968 and 10 more in 1969, he fought 62 times in just 5 years before his first loss to Castillo!



Olivares, Castillo, Rose, Armstrong and Medal with Lionel Rose playing guitar and Olivares telling Castillo "this does not sound like La Cucaracha to me"

[ICB]

Im not trying to discredit him, what im saying is i think he's overrated due to the fact. He's always mostly rated number 1 or number 2 on alot of rankings. And i couldn't disagree more with it, he was very good for a short period but he doesn't match up to some of the other mexican greats IMO.