(Miles get in here!) Ghetto grammar (Evening Standard)

[Howlin Mad Missy]

I actually agree with every word of this.

I agree too. Children shouldn't be allowed to get away with these base language forms in the classroom and as a parent I would be extremely annoyed to hear this kind of language in the home. Sure, speak how you want with your friends, I can't control that, but within the domain of the school and perhaps even the workplace it should be controlled and extinguished. Kids are always going to want to subvert language to appear cool and be in some way 'giving it to the establishment', but it is cheap, lazy and ugly.

Again schools need to get strong with classroom discourse and the kinds of verbal interaction that are allowed to take place in classrooms. I am not one for getting too harsh on second language learners coming to terms with a new language, but native speakers who have grown up in a non-corrective environment who are flagrantly abusing their own language? I don't think it is acceptable at all.

Everyone needs to be encouraged to broaden their linguistic and expressive capabilities. Those that can't do so to an effective degree will obviously struggle in life, but that shouldn't mean we give up on everyone and tolerate an open acceptance of crude forms such as 'innit' and excessive use of the word 'like' and so on. The writer of the article makes some valid and fair arguments really.

You know that 'proper' English is a late-19th century construct designed to subdue regional cultural diversity and thus make the whole population more plyable to central government? I thought you were against right-of-centre mechanisms of the state?

Well. Several points. Most language is standardised, Spanish for example, began to become under state control in the 1200's.

On the otherhand. The stephen fry argument that language is always evolving.

Thirdly, dialects are kinda cool, if I put on my local dialect people round here have no idea what I'm saying, it feels like a code Plus there is a rich social history to language & dialects which is being eroded.

...but there is no way I would go out with anyone giving it all that 'arks', 'innit' shyte. It would annoy to the point of killing a puppy.

[boozeboxer]

innit though.

[Master]

I actually agree with every word of this.

I agree too. Children shouldn't be allowed to get away with these base language forms in the classroom and as a parent I would be extremely annoyed to hear this kind of language in the home. Sure, speak how you want with your friends, I can't control that, but within the domain of the school and perhaps even the workplace it should be controlled and extinguished. Kids are always going to want to subvert language to appear cool and be in some way 'giving it to the establishment', but it is cheap, lazy and ugly.

Again schools need to get strong with classroom discourse and the kinds of verbal interaction that are allowed to take place in classrooms. I am not one for getting too harsh on second language learners coming to terms with a new language, but native speakers who have grown up in a non-corrective environment who are flagrantly abusing their own language? I don't think it is acceptable at all.

Everyone needs to be encouraged to broaden their linguistic and expressive capabilities. Those that can't do so to an effective degree will obviously struggle in life, but that shouldn't mean we give up on everyone and tolerate an open acceptance of crude forms such as 'innit' and excessive use of the word 'like' and so on. The writer of the article makes some valid and fair arguments really.

You know that 'proper' English is a late-19th century construct designed to subdue regional cultural diversity and thus make the whole population more plyable to central government? I thought you were against right-of-centre mechanisms of the state?

Well. Several points. Most language is standardised, Spanish for example, began to become under state control in the 1200's.

On the otherhand. The stephen fry argument that language is always evolving.

Thirdly, dialects are kinda cool, if I put on my local dialect people round here have no idea what I'm saying, it feels like a code Plus there is a rich social history to language & dialects which is being eroded.


...but there is no way I would go out with anyone giving it all that 'arks', 'innit' shyte. It would annoy to the point of killing a puppy.

Agreed, you all sound old, language evolves and the majority of the young grow out of the street language and conform eventually.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

I actually agree with every word of this.

I agree too. Children shouldn't be allowed to get away with these base language forms in the classroom and as a parent I would be extremely annoyed to hear this kind of language in the home. Sure, speak how you want with your friends, I can't control that, but within the domain of the school and perhaps even the workplace it should be controlled and extinguished. Kids are always going to want to subvert language to appear cool and be in some way 'giving it to the establishment', but it is cheap, lazy and ugly.

Again schools need to get strong with classroom discourse and the kinds of verbal interaction that are allowed to take place in classrooms. I am not one for getting too harsh on second language learners coming to terms with a new language, but native speakers who have grown up in a non-corrective environment who are flagrantly abusing their own language? I don't think it is acceptable at all.

Everyone needs to be encouraged to broaden their linguistic and expressive capabilities. Those that can't do so to an effective degree will obviously struggle in life, but that shouldn't mean we give up on everyone and tolerate an open acceptance of crude forms such as 'innit' and excessive use of the word 'like' and so on. The writer of the article makes some valid and fair arguments really.

You know that 'proper' English is a late-19th century construct designed to subdue regional cultural diversity and thus make the whole population more plyable to central government? I thought you were against right-of-centre mechanisms of the state?

Well. Several points. Most language is standardised, Spanish for example, began to become under state control in the 1200's.

On the otherhand. The stephen fry argument that language is always evolving.

Thirdly, dialects are kinda cool, if I put on my local dialect people round here have no idea what I'm saying, it feels like a code Plus there is a rich social history to language & dialects which is being eroded.


...but there is no way I would go out with anyone giving it all that 'arks', 'innit' shyte. It would annoy to the point of killing a puppy.

Agreed, you all sound old, language evolves and the majority of the young grow out of the street language and conform eventually.

Me included

However with this particular 'dialects' increased racial inclusion and (quite phenomenally at the same time) social marginalisation, I feel that 'growing out of it' will no longer become an option.

[El Kabong]

...but there is no way I would go out with anyone giving it all that 'arks', 'innit' shyte. It would annoy to the point of killing a puppy.

If that's the case then....I've got good news!

Much like the other thread, this all boils down to parents, mentors, and peers not doing their jobs. Children like to push the envelope, they like to test their boundaries, and if you're the person in charge it is your duty to correct them. I once had an English teacher that would ring a bell every single time a student used a speech tick (eg "Like", "Umm", "Ya Know")...I despised that teacher (for other reasons), but I respect and admire him for having the determination and tenacity to establish that tone in his classroom and be unwavering to any and all resistance to it.

I have seen and heard Bill Cosby and more recently Democrat Mayor of Philadelphia Michael Nutter (yes that is his real name) talk about education and this whole "culture" (it's not a culture, it's the lack of respect towards society in general) of ignorance being king amongst the youth and what they say is 100% correct.

I was very pleased upon the return to my old high school that 2 young football (American football) players that I happened to meet addressed me as "Sir", looked me straight in the eye, and gave a proper handshake....that ladies and gentlemen is a winning team...I don't care about the record of the team this year or anything else, their actions showed me that they are capable of respect and do so in a situation where that way of acting is against the grain and I'll be more than pleased to mention it to the head coach next time I see him, I couldn't have been more proud of those young men.

Kids these days know that they have the ability to say anything and act however they want, but they DO NOT realize that restraint in thoughts, feelings, actions, are the foundation of class, culture, and mutual respect. Society rests upon that foundation...I do fear we are moving further away from solid ground with the passing of each year.