Who is 'Greater' on the all-time list SRL or RJJ?

[Mars_ax]

Easily SRL, Jones doesn't even make my top 100 all-time.

That really surprises me mate. Surely you must be basing some of that on the Taver fights and since? Looking at him up to and including Ruiz, it would be very hard not to have him at least top 20 IMO.

The "Great" Jones Jr had his moments early his career, but I never saw any real "defining" fights, or moving up in weight and outpointing Journeyman HW Chumpion John Ruiz as any great accomplishment. Once Jones' unorthodox style was figured out and the competition got stiffer, he started getting his ass handed to him, first by Tarver, then by Glenn Johnson. I look at a fighters entire career and Roy Jones Jr. turned out to be an overhyped PPV premadona, who got exposed.

[Galaxy]

Easily SRL, Jones doesn't even make my top 100 all-time.

That really surprises me mate. Surely you must be basing some of that on the Taver fights and since? Looking at him up to and including Ruiz, it would be very hard not to have him at least top 20 IMO.

The "Great" Jones Jr had his moments early his career, but I never saw any real "defining" fights, or moving up in weight and outpointing Journeyman HW Chumpion John Ruiz as any great accomplishment. Once Jones' unorthodox style was figured out and the competition got stiffer, he started getting his ass handed to him, first by Tarver, then by Glenn Johnson. I look at a fighters entire career and Roy Jones Jr. turned out to be an overhyped PPV premadona, who got exposed.

I disagree, I had Jones winning the 1st Tarver fight & Tarver was the #1 contender going into that fight & was no push over! I don't care much for the win over Ruiz but he had to cut back down in weight for the Tarver fight. Jones was basically untouchable until around 2004. Jones dominated from 154 to 175 for a period of roughly 15 years, defeating the likes of Hopkins, Toney, McCallum & Tarver (also a whole host of other top contenders)

[Mars_ax]

Easily SRL, Jones doesn't even make my top 100 all-time.

That really surprises me mate. Surely you must be basing some of that on the Taver fights and since? Looking at him up to and including Ruiz, it would be very hard not to have him at least top 20 IMO.

The "Great" Jones Jr had his moments early his career, but I never saw any real "defining" fights, or moving up in weight and outpointing Journeyman HW Chumpion John Ruiz as any great accomplishment. Once Jones' unorthodox style was figured out and the competition got stiffer, he started getting his ass handed to him, first by Tarver, then by Glenn Johnson. I look at a fighters entire career and Roy Jones Jr. turned out to be an overhyped PPV premadona, who got exposed.

I disagree, I had Jones winning the 1st Tarver fight & Tarver was the #1 contender going into that fight & was no push over! I don't care much for the win over Ruiz but he had to cut back down in weight for the Tarver fight. Jones was basically untouchable until around 2004. Jones dominated from 154 to 175 for a period of roughly 15 years, defeating the likes of Hopkins, Toney, McCallum & Tarver (also a whole host of other top contenders)

Granted, prior to being knocked out by Tarver in 2004, Jones was better than most of his competition. My point is, unlike SRL, up until 2004 Jones really had no "defining" fights and/or fights where he was really tested. Well guess what, the competition finally got better, and when Jones started fighting pugs who were his equal, he wasn't up to the challenge. As long as Jones was dealing out the punishment he was great, but as soon as someone gave him a taste of his own medicine, he was toast.

I base much of a fighters greatness by how well they come back from adversity, this is a big part of the reason why pugs like SRL, Louis, Marciano, Ali, et al, are all-time greats, and why Roy Jones Jr. is not. (at least not in my top 100)

[Manju]

SRL has the Joe Montana, Michael Jordan, David Freese, quality: Big game moments. High Drama.

RJJ is more like Peyton Manning, which is no insult of course. He was undoubtedly the best in the game but never had quite that defining moment in the clutch.

Only Ali had a more dramatic career than SRL imo, which of course is a function of having great competition. He even won when he lost, choosing to go toe 2 toe with Duran. That sort of passion distinguishes him. It’s a narrative, a great story with chapters, that ultimately culminates in one of the sport’s greatest warriors quitting. A defeat worse than a KO.

Then comes the jewel in the crown, imo: Hearns I, which is even more significant that Hagler because both fighters were in their prime and SRL has to come from behind to win. He changes styles and pursues arguably the hardest hitting welter in history, culminating in one of the most dramatic late round stoppages in boxing history. This scenario almost repeats itself in their 2ndn bout.

RJJ never had stuff like that, and certainly was never able to pull off a dramatic win past his prime, as SRL did with Hagler. RJJ was just a physical phenom. But even in this category there are questions about his chin and of PED use.

So I go with SRL.

[Galaxy]

Easily SRL, Jones doesn't even make my top 100 all-time.

That really surprises me mate. Surely you must be basing some of that on the Taver fights and since? Looking at him up to and including Ruiz, it would be very hard not to have him at least top 20 IMO.

The "Great" Jones Jr had his moments early his career, but I never saw any real "defining" fights, or moving up in weight and outpointing Journeyman HW Chumpion John Ruiz as any great accomplishment. Once Jones' unorthodox style was figured out and the competition got stiffer, he started getting his ass handed to him, first by Tarver, then by Glenn Johnson. I look at a fighters entire career and Roy Jones Jr. turned out to be an overhyped PPV premadona, who got exposed.

I disagree, I had Jones winning the 1st Tarver fight & Tarver was the #1 contender going into that fight & was no push over! I don't care much for the win over Ruiz but he had to cut back down in weight for the Tarver fight. Jones was basically untouchable until around 2004. Jones dominated from 154 to 175 for a period of roughly 15 years, defeating the likes of Hopkins, Toney, McCallum & Tarver (also a whole host of other top contenders)

Granted, prior to being knocked out by Tarver in 2004, Jones was better than most of his competition. My point is, unlike SRL, up until 2004 Jones really had no "defining" fights and/or fights where he was really tested. Well guess what, the competition finally got better, and when Jones started fighting pugs who were his equal, he wasn't up to the challenge. As long as Jones was dealing out the punishment he was great, but as soon as someone gave him a taste of his own medicine, he was toast.

I base much of a fighters greatness by how well they come back from adversity, this is a big part of the reason why pugs like SRL, Louis, Marciano, Ali, et al, are all-time greats, and why Roy Jones Jr. is not. (at least not in my top 100)

I sort of get what your saying, but just because Jones wasn't really tested doesn't mean he didn't have any defining fights, I mean Toney was considered a top p4p guy when they fought, Hopkins wasn't the finished product he became but was still dangerous. When he fought Tarver the 1st time I think that was Tarver at his best. Age caught up with Jones & because he never had great fundamentals to begin with once he slowed down he started getting caught.

[Mars_ax]

[QUOTE=Galaxy;1020619][QUOTE=Mars_ax;1020611]

Granted, prior to being knocked out by Tarver in 2004, Jones was better than most of his competition. My point is, unlike SRL, up until 2004 Jones really had no "defining" fights and/or fights where he was really tested. Well guess what, the competition finally got better, and when Jones started fighting pugs who were his equal, he wasn't up to the challenge. As long as Jones was dealing out the punishment he was great, but as soon as someone gave him a taste of his own medicine, he was toast.

I base much of a fighters greatness by how well they come back from adversity, this is a big part of the reason why pugs like SRL, Louis, Marciano, Ali, et al, are all-time greats, and why Roy Jones Jr. is not. (at least not in my top 100)

I sort of get what your saying, but just because Jones wasn't really tested doesn't mean he didn't have any defining fights, I mean Toney was considered a top p4p guy when they fought, Hopkins wasn't the finished product he became but was still dangerous. When he fought Tarver the 1st time I think that was Tarver at his best. Age caught up with Jones & because he never had great fundamentals to begin with once he slowed down he started getting caught.

I can honestly say I never once bought one of RJJ's suckass PPV's.

[ICB]

Easily SRL, Jones doesn't even make my top 100 all-time.

That really surprises me mate. Surely you must be basing some of that on the Taver fights and since? Looking at him up to and including Ruiz, it would be very hard not to have him at least top 20 IMO.

The "Great" Jones Jr had his moments early his career, but I never saw any real "defining" fights, or moving up in weight and outpointing Journeyman HW Chumpion John Ruiz as any great accomplishment. Once Jones' unorthodox style was figured out and the competition got stiffer, he started getting his ass handed to him, first by Tarver, then by Glenn Johnson. I look at a fighters entire career and Roy Jones Jr. turned out to be an overhyped PPV premadona, who got exposed.

Are you serious ? honestly thats absolute garbage, the reason he lost is because he was 35 year's old, and dropped a huge amount of weight. Tarver, Johnson, are stiffer competition than fighters like Toney ? Hopkins ? Hill ? really ?

And didn't SRL also get destroyed by Terry Norris ? and he was younger than RJJ and was coming off a one sided win over Robert Duran.

RJJ winning the Heavyweight title was no great achievement ? it hadn't been done in a century and John Ruiz was coming over flooring a good version of Evander Holyfield. But according to you its not a great achievement.

Talk about total disrespect for a great fighter honestly.

[BIG H]

Anything after Ruiz doesn't count for me. That's just my opinion of course.
RJJs resume aint great, but the way he beat Toney and McCallum to name a couple, shows me that he was no 'hype job'.

[Mars_ax]

Easily SRL, Jones doesn't even make my top 100 all-time.

That really surprises me mate. Surely you must be basing some of that on the Taver fights and since? Looking at him up to and including Ruiz, it would be very hard not to have him at least top 20 IMO.

The "Great" Jones Jr had his moments early his career, but I never saw any real "defining" fights, or moving up in weight and outpointing Journeyman HW Chumpion John Ruiz as any great accomplishment. Once Jones' unorthodox style was figured out and the competition got stiffer, he started getting his ass handed to him, first by Tarver, then by Glenn Johnson. I look at a fighters entire career and Roy Jones Jr. turned out to be an overhyped PPV premadona, who got exposed.

Are you serious ? honestly thats absolute garbage, the reason he lost is because he was 35 year's old, and dropped a huge amount of weight. Tarver, Johnson, are stiffer competition than fighters like Toney ? Hopkins ? Hill ? really ?

And didn't SRL also get destroyed by Terry Norris ? and he was younger than RJJ and was coming off a one sided win over Robert Duran.

RJJ winning the Heavyweight title was no great achievement ? it hadn't been done in a century and John Ruiz was coming over flooring a good version of Evander Holyfield. But according to you its not a great achievement.

Talk about total disrespect for a great fighter honestly.

Your love for and defense of RJJ is touching, as for disrespecting him, that's comical, fuck Roy Jones Jr., that is all.

[ICB]

Easily SRL, Jones doesn't even make my top 100 all-time.

That really surprises me mate. Surely you must be basing some of that on the Taver fights and since? Looking at him up to and including Ruiz, it would be very hard not to have him at least top 20 IMO.

The "Great" Jones Jr had his moments early his career, but I never saw any real "defining" fights, or moving up in weight and outpointing Journeyman HW Chumpion John Ruiz as any great accomplishment. Once Jones' unorthodox style was figured out and the competition got stiffer, he started getting his ass handed to him, first by Tarver, then by Glenn Johnson. I look at a fighters entire career and Roy Jones Jr. turned out to be an overhyped PPV premadona, who got exposed.

Are you serious ? honestly thats absolute garbage, the reason he lost is because he was 35 year's old, and dropped a huge amount of weight. Tarver, Johnson, are stiffer competition than fighters like Toney ? Hopkins ? Hill ? really ?

And didn't SRL also get destroyed by Terry Norris ? and he was younger than RJJ and was coming off a one sided win over Robert Duran.

RJJ winning the Heavyweight title was no great achievement ? it hadn't been done in a century and John Ruiz was coming over flooring a good version of Evander Holyfield. But according to you its not a great achievement.

Talk about total disrespect for a great fighter honestly.

Your love for and defense of RJJ is touching, as for disrespecting him, that's comical, fuck Roy Jones Jr., that is all.

You can rant all you want i didn't see you address anything in my post, and your hate for RJJ is ridiculous. Not even in the top 100 ? that is an absolute joke, you can dislike a fighter without being ridiculously biased and hateful.

[Mars_ax]

Talk about total disrespect for a great fighter honestly.

Your love for and defense of RJJ is touching, as for disrespecting him, that's comical, fuck Roy Jones Jr., that is all.

You can rant all you want i didn't see you address anything in my post, and your hate for RJJ is ridiculous. Not even in the top 100 ? that is an absolute joke, you can dislike a fighter without being ridiculously biased and hateful.

Gosh ICB, are you and Roy dating? You seem to be "ridiculously" all over this mother-fucker's nuts.

Not everyone who disagrees with you is "biased and hateful" or as in love with RJJ as you seem to be, quit acting like an over emotional cunt, and get over yourself.

[TitoFan]

Is it possible to choose one over the other without it being perceived as a diss on the other? RJJ was a remarkable talent, probably an ATG. But SRL's list of opponents stands head and shoulders above RJJ's. Not a slight on Roy, just telling it like it is.

Younger fans who have never seen any SRL footage will find it hard to comprehend... but there was life before RJJ, Tyson, and all the rest.

[erics44]

Is it possible to choose one over the other without it being perceived as a diss on the other? RJJ was a remarkable talent, probably an ATG. But SRL's list of opponents stands head and shoulders above RJJ's. Not a slight on Roy, just telling it like it is.

Younger fans who have never seen any SRL footage will find it hard to comprehend... but there was life before RJJ, Tyson, and all the rest.

Again its very easy to say leonard had better opponents but in general did he really?

The era is massively hyped

[Galaxy]

Easily SRL, Jones doesn't even make my top 100 all-time.

That really surprises me mate. Surely you must be basing some of that on the Taver fights and since? Looking at him up to and including Ruiz, it would be very hard not to have him at least top 20 IMO.

The "Great" Jones Jr had his moments early his career, but I never saw any real "defining" fights, or moving up in weight and outpointing Journeyman HW Chumpion John Ruiz as any great accomplishment. Once Jones' unorthodox style was figured out and the competition got stiffer, he started getting his ass handed to him, first by Tarver, then by Glenn Johnson. I look at a fighters entire career and Roy Jones Jr. turned out to be an overhyped PPV premadona, who got exposed.

Are you serious ? honestly thats absolute garbage, the reason he lost is because he was 35 year's old, and dropped a huge amount of weight. Tarver, Johnson, are stiffer competition than fighters like Toney ? Hopkins ? Hill ? really ?

And didn't SRL also get destroyed by Terry Norris ? and he was younger than RJJ and was coming off a one sided win over Robert Duran.

RJJ winning the Heavyweight title was no great achievement ? it hadn't been done in a century and John Ruiz was coming over flooring a good version of Evander Holyfield. But according to you its not a great achievement.

Talk about total disrespect for a great fighter honestly.

Your love for and defense of RJJ is touching, as for disrespecting him, that's comical, fuck Roy Jones Jr., that is all.

You can rant all you want i didn't see you address anything in my post, and your hate for RJJ is ridiculous. Not even in the top 100 ? that is an absolute joke, you can dislike a fighter without being ridiculously biased and hateful.

Gosh ICB, are you and Roy dating? You seem to be "ridiculously" all over this mother-fucker's nuts.

Not everyone who disagrees with you is "biased and hateful" or as in love with RJJ as you seem to be, quit acting like an over emotional cunt, and get over yourself.

Bro ICB is just saying what everyone else is thinking. You don't have to like the guy & most of us have said Leonard is higher. But Jones was brilliant at his best! You say you never saw any defining fights but others have mentioned his wins of Toney, HOF McCallum, HOF bound Hopkins, Tarver when Jones was already on the slide. You don't consider those defining? I agree that some of his opposition wasn't stella but you mention Tarver who had already his ass handed to him by Harding who Jones owned! Give credit where credit is due

[Mars_ax]

Bro ICB is just saying what everyone else is thinking. You don't have to like the guy & most of us have said Leonard is higher. But Jones was brilliant at his best! You say you never saw any defining fights but others have mentioned his wins of Toney, HOF McCallum, HOF bound Hopkins, Tarver when Jones was already on the slide. You don't consider those defining? I agree that some of his opposition wasn't stella but you mention Tarver who had already his ass handed to him by Harding who Jones owned! Give credit where credit is due.

You, ICB, el al, are welcome to your opinions, and however "ridiculous" they may seem to you, I have mine. I can think of at least 100 Pugs i'd put ahead of RJJ on my all-time list, being "hate and bias", have fuck all to do with it.