Just watched the 2nd Pacman/Marquez fight. JMM fans must have blinders on

[Galaxy]

I had JMM winning 114-113 if I remember correctly

[armyash]

It's been a while since i have seen the fights but i'm pretty sure i had the first fight even. As it's the second fight thats up for discussion I'm going to watch it today and come back with my score.

[johnsebastianmiran]

Incredible as it seems I was happy with the draw for the first fight, what an effort so I won't spoil it by analyzing it too much. The second was like the first but Manny was intense and JMM was relentless enough to lose a close decision. I favor Marquez but Manny won the second fight squeaky clean. Let's forget those two fights and deal with reality. Someone slipped and someone improved. This fight is about who wants it more. Some of us will be surprised and some will say, "I told you so."

[Rantcatrat]

It's been a while since i have seen the fights but i'm pretty sure i had the first fight even. As it's the second fight thats up for discussion I'm going to watch it today and come back with my score.

Me too.

[15rounder]

Marquez won both fights, anyone who says that Pacquiao won hands down are smoking rocks

Lol...you can't be serious. I've said this time and time again. One of the most important rules to winning a fight...stay off your ass. Marquez can't ever seem to do that when he fights Manny. They were close fights, but to say anyone that has Manny winning is smoking rocks? Well, I think you were one of the people encompassed in the title of this thread.

[jdonaher1]

Marquez won both fights, anyone who says that Pacquiao won hands down are smoking rocks

Lol...you can't be serious. I've said this time and time again. One of the most important rules to winning a fight...stay off your ass. Marquez can't ever seem to do that when he fights Manny. They were close fights, but to say anyone that has Manny winning is smoking rocks? Well, I think you were one of the people encompassed in the title of this thread.

Yeah I agree 100%, hard to complain you won 2 fights when you were CLEARLY knocked down 4 times and ROCKED HARD on other occasions during both fights!!!

[ElTerribleMorales]

Marquez won both fights, anyone who says that Pacquiao won hands down are smoking rocks

Lol...you can't be serious. I've said this time and time again. One of the most important rules to winning a fight...stay off your ass. Marquez can't ever seem to do that when he fights Manny. They were close fights, but to say anyone that has Manny winning is smoking rocks? Well, I think you were one of the people encompassed in the title of this thread.

Yeah I agree 100%, hard to complain you won 2 fights when you were CLEARLY knocked down 4 times and ROCKED HARD on other occasions during both fights!!!

Manny was clearly outboxed in most of the rounds, and Marquez himself ROCKED MANNY HARD on several occasions, KD's just add a point to a round, the fact that Manny barely won on paper even with 4 KD's combined shows how much of a better technician Marquez is than Pacquiao

[15rounder]

Marquez won both fights, anyone who says that Pacquiao won hands down are smoking rocks

Lol...you can't be serious. I've said this time and time again. One of the most important rules to winning a fight...stay off your ass. Marquez can't ever seem to do that when he fights Manny. They were close fights, but to say anyone that has Manny winning is smoking rocks? Well, I think you were one of the people encompassed in the title of this thread.

Yeah I agree 100%, hard to complain you won 2 fights when you were CLEARLY knocked down 4 times and ROCKED HARD on other occasions during both fights!!!

Manny was clearly outboxed in most of the rounds, and Marquez himself ROCKED MANNY HARD on several occasions, KD's just add a point to a round, the fact that Manny barely won on paper even with 4 KD's combined shows how much of a better technician Marquez is than Pacquiao

Yup its official. When it comes to this matchup you clearly are only watching one man fight and wishing he was better. Unfortunately your boy cant stay off his behind. It's good that he finally realized that he shouldn't drink his piss. Maybe he thinks eating his own crap will help him adjust to the weight gain. LOL. Didn't happen in the previous two fights, won't happen here bro. Sorry.

[Majesty]

When I first saw both fights I thought Pacquiao won the first and Marquez won the second.

Rewatching them both I think Marquez won both fights.

However there's no doubt in my mind that Marquez is going to lose Saturday. He may get dropped and come back and win but it's against less opposition like Katsidis.

Put that on top of the fact that Marquez has to fight at Welterweight against a natural welterweight Pacquiao. If Pacquiao loses this fight then he is more overhyped than imaginable. This fight is giftwrapped for him to win. He has a slipping Marquez two weight classes above his average, it's the easiest version of Marquez he'll ever face, if he loses then it's going to be very bad. I go as far as to say if it's a close fight it ruins any mystique on a Mayweather fight. If Pacquiao doesn't start to dominate after 2 or 3 rounds, there's a problem. These are the fights he's supposed to win.

Marquez is an all time great and a hall of famer, but he's slipped, he's on the downward spiral, he's winning but he isn't the Marquez that gave Pacquiao hell for two fights this is the Marquez who has looked okay in his last few fights, but he's being setup to lose this fight.

I'll be shocked if this fight goes the distance, and even more shocked if Pacquiao loses.

[CFH]

When I first saw both fights I thought Pacquiao won the first and Marquez won the second.

Rewatching them both I think Marquez won both fights.

However there's no doubt in my mind that Marquez is going to lose Saturday. He may get dropped and come back and win but it's against less opposition like Katsidis.

Put that on top of the fact that Marquez has to fight at Welterweight against a natural welterweight Pacquiao. If Pacquiao loses this fight then he is more overhyped than imaginable. This fight is giftwrapped for him to win. He has a slipping Marquez two weight classes above his average, it's the easiest version of Marquez he'll ever face, if he loses then it's going to be very bad. I go as far as to say if it's a close fight it ruins any mystique on a Mayweather fight. If Pacquiao doesn't start to dominate after 2 or 3 rounds, there's a problem. These are the fights he's supposed to win.

Marquez is an all time great and a hall of famer, but he's slipped, he's on the downward spiral, he's winning but he isn't the Marquez that gave Pacquiao hell for two fights this is the Marquez who has looked okay in his last few fights, but he's being setup to lose this fight.

I'll be shocked if this fight goes the distance, and even more shocked if Pacquiao loses.

I disagree with that. If Pacquiao loses this fight, and I agree that he won't, it will in no way diminish his previous accomplishments. Regardless of what happens from this point forward, he will go down as an ATG and the best fighter of his era.

[InTheNeutralCorner]

When I first saw both fights I thought Pacquiao won the first and Marquez won the second.

Rewatching them both I think Marquez won both fights.

However there's no doubt in my mind that Marquez is going to lose Saturday. He may get dropped and come back and win but it's against less opposition like Katsidis.

Put that on top of the fact that Marquez has to fight at Welterweight against a natural welterweight Pacquiao. If Pacquiao loses this fight then he is more overhyped than imaginable. This fight is giftwrapped for him to win. He has a slipping Marquez two weight classes above his average, it's the easiest version of Marquez he'll ever face, if he loses then it's going to be very bad. I go as far as to say if it's a close fight it ruins any mystique on a Mayweather fight. If Pacquiao doesn't start to dominate after 2 or 3 rounds, there's a problem. These are the fights he's supposed to win.

Marquez is an all time great and a hall of famer, but he's slipped, he's on the downward spiral, he's winning but he isn't the Marquez that gave Pacquiao hell for two fights this is the Marquez who has looked okay in his last few fights, but he's being setup to lose this fight.

I'll be shocked if this fight goes the distance, and even more shocked if Pacquiao loses.

If it's a close fight, then we would be closer to a Pacquiao-Mayweather fight. Floyd will be clamoring to fight Manny even without a drug test.

[J_C]

If you win a fight by dumping the other guy on his ass, then sure Pac won both 100%. BUT THATS NOT HOW BOXING IS SCORED. Some people seem to fail to see this somehow. I think these are the same people who just watch fights and decide who they think won at the end without scoring round by round.

Both fights are razor thin.

I had the 1st a draw and the second Marquez by 1pt FWIW.

[InTheNeutralCorner]

If you win a fight by dumping the other guy on his ass, then sure Pac won both 100%. BUT THATS NOT HOW BOXING IS SCORED. Some people seem to fail to see this somehow. I think these are the same people who just watch fights and decide who they think won at the end without scoring round by round.

Both fights are razor thin.

I had the 1st a draw and the second Marquez by 1pt FWIW.

Their 2 fights were really very close that it could have gone to either fighter. But if we are going to go by the statement that is highlighted up here, then we all know that boxing is scored by the official judges whose scores are the only ones that matters. And it's a draw and a win for Pacquiao ...... case closed.

[SRR]

When I first saw both fights I thought Pacquiao won the first and Marquez won the second.

Rewatching them both I think Marquez won both fights.

However there's no doubt in my mind that Marquez is going to lose Saturday. He may get dropped and come back and win but it's against less opposition like Katsidis.

Put that on top of the fact that Marquez has to fight at Welterweight against a natural welterweight Pacquiao. If Pacquiao loses this fight then he is more overhyped than imaginable. This fight is giftwrapped for him to win. He has a slipping Marquez two weight classes above his average, it's the easiest version of Marquez he'll ever face, if he loses then it's going to be very bad. I go as far as to say if it's a close fight it ruins any mystique on a Mayweather fight. If Pacquiao doesn't start to dominate after 2 or 3 rounds, there's a problem. These are the fights he's supposed to win.

Marquez is an all time great and a hall of famer, but he's slipped, he's on the downward spiral, he's winning but he isn't the Marquez that gave Pacquiao hell for two fights this is the Marquez who has looked okay in his last few fights, but he's being setup to lose this fight.

I'll be shocked if this fight goes the distance, and even more shocked if Pacquiao loses.

I disagree with that. If Pacquiao loses this fight, and I agree that he won't, it will in no way diminish his previous accomplishments. Regardless of what happens from this point forward, he will go down as an ATG and the best fighter of his era.

I'm sorry, but how can you say he would be the best fighter of his era after whooping a few husks Mayweather already dominated (DLH, Hatton, Mosley), one clumsy turtle (Clottey), one broken warrior (Cotto) and one (comparatively) lively fighter coming off the most devastating loss of his career (Margacheato), and losing to a guy who is past his prime and two weight classes higher than he should ever have gone? There is no winning in this fight for Pacman, anyone who knows anything about boxing knows this fight has only been made now, at welterweight, because Roach and Pacman knew it was their only chance to avenge the masterclasses Marquez dished out to Pac in their first two fights.

Pacman is possibly the most over-hyped fighter ever, he hasn't done anything special in a long time. His only truly great wins are over Barrera and Morales, since I don't believe for a minute that he beat Marquez in their first two fights. In consideration of this, I totally agree that losing to Marquez this Saturday would retard his current apotheosis dramatically. Then again so many people are on Pacquiao's dick at this point the nutt-hugging media propagandists who are responsible for his global standing might just be able to sell it as a freak 'incident' to the mass of the public. Those looking in on events with any measure of objectivity will not be fooled.

Has it occurred to anyone else watching the latest 24/7 that the reason Pac has been so riled by Marquez's claims of winning the previous two bouts is he knows it's true, and that he is training harder than ever because deep down there is a little nagging doubt that tells him no matter how hard he tried in the past, this guy just kept getting up and outboxing him in front of the world? I'm not by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that Pac is scared he will lose to Marquez at this point, but I think he is well aware his legacy could be well and truly tarnished by even a poor performance against JMM. A split decision ain't gonna cut it at this point, and it seems obvious to me that the extra motivation I've seen in Pac's training this time round denotes the insecurities he has regarding his ability - even at this stage, with his marked improvements, and Marquez's marked decline - to tackle a truly great boxer.

None of the guys Pac has fought (we'll exclude the weight drained zombie that was DLH) had the technical ability to time him and exert superior boxing skills upon him, they were mostly come forward fighters who were either psychologically weak (I think a strong case can be made for some of them having lost the fight before they stepped in the ring, but that's a matter for another time...) or simply did not have the ability to deal with his hand speed, exceptional lateral movement and endurance. However, it may all be a moot point, since, despite my love of Marquez (a true warrior and boxing technician) I think he has a snowball's chance in hell at this stage of his career, though I pray he can pull out one last great performance and finally get the win he deserves, and seal his legacy as arguably the greatest Mexican fighter of all time.

On another note, it's a real shame Pacquiao isn't doing anything currently to elevate himself in the annals of the sport. I mean, at this point, after working with Roach for the best part of a decade, he has a pretty great skillset, at least offensively - his lateral movement and use of the right hand as a southpaw are particularly impressive - and traditionally he has had the balls to take on the best, yet the last few years have seen him resting very heavily on his laurels. I hate to bring up the Mayweather fight again, but tbh, and to go back to the reason for my response, it's the only fight that could really make him 'the fighter of his era'. If that fight is made and he beats Mayweather then we can make that claim, but if he carries on fighting guys who should not really present that many problems for him, he could go down as someone who was seemingly great and yet never did everything in their power to prove it, but was more committed to being a commercial and political success than mastering the craft which gave him the opportunity to pursue his many other earthly pleasures.

[C-Lo]

On that note, I'm done with this thread...