I'm not clamoring for a PAC-PBF anymore

[Chino]

I'm going hiding for the meantime. Congrats to Mr. Marquez I had you winning too. I will forever love PAC regardless

First Filipino I hear that gave the nod to Marquez . Cool.

[shza]

Furthermore, Mayweather has fought intermittently and cherry-picked his opponents since moving to 147 <b>while Pacquiao has beaten the best in the division</b>.

What? A post-plaster-beaten Cotto, a non-cheating, a post-Mosley-exposed Margarito, Josh Clottey, and Mayweather's leftovers (Mosley and a super-shot ODLH)? <i>That</i> is cherry-picking at least as bad as Floyd's (they are both guilty of it, don't get me wrong). The "best" fighters at WW at the time Pac was fighting those guys were Mayweather, Berto and Ortiz (unfortunately -- it's actually a pretty weak division after the top 2).

Even if he fights and beats Pacquaio, which he will, Mayweather is always going to be a fighter that is talked about in terms of what might have been.

This I agree with 100%. Maybe if he beats Pacquiao AND then moves up and beats Martinez he can claim "great" status. But I know that'll never happen.

[CFH]

Furthermore, Mayweather has fought intermittently and cherry-picked his opponents since moving to 147 <b>while Pacquiao has beaten the best in the division</b>.

What? A post-plaster-beaten Cotto, a non-cheating, a post-Mosley-exposed Margarito, Josh Clottey, and Mayweather's leftovers (Mosley and a super-shot ODLH)? <i>That</i> is cherry-picking at least as bad as Floyd's (they are both guilty of it, don't get me wrong). The "best" fighters at WW at the time Pac was fighting those guys were Mayweather, Berto and Ortiz (unfortunately -- it's actually a pretty weak division after the top 2).

Even if he fights and beats Pacquaio, which he will, Mayweather is always going to be a fighter that is talked about in terms of what might have been.

This I agree with 100%. Maybe if he beats Pacquiao AND then moves up and beats Martinez he can claim "great" status. But I know that'll never happen.

Berto and Ortiz were far from proven when Pacquiao moved to 147.

Ortiz didn't even become a welter until April 2011 when he fought Berto and, after the Maidana embarrassment and the draw with Peterson, he wasn't considered an upper echelon fighter until he beat Berto in 2011. By that point Pacquiao was contracted to fight Mosley and had already fought Cotto (who a great many people picked to beat him), Clottey, and Margarito, each of whom was ranked in the top 5 of the division when they fought Pacquiao IIRC.

Berto had just come off a very disappointing fight with Collazo (where most people felt he had gotten a gift decision) when Pacquiao moved up to 147, and I don't know if his stock had even been lower. He still hasn't entirely rebuilt his reputation.

Pacquiao's opposition at 147 hasn't been great and the division has been relatively mediocre for a while now, but he's consistently fought the best fighters available (Mayweather aside) and has never ducked anyone. He's also not really a Welter, as his weights prove, which (IMO) make his accomplishments all the more impressive. At best, he's a Jr. Welter who could probably still make lightweight.

[shza]

Pacquiao's opposition at 147 hasn't been great and the division has been relatively mediocre for a while now, but he's consistently fought the best fighters available (Mayweather aside) and has never ducked anyone.

Give me a break. Clottey, ODLH, Margacheato, Mosley right after getting his ass beat by Floyd? These were not the "best fighters available" at the time of those fights. Go check your back-issues of the Ring, or whatever your favorite ratings are. This is a fact.

Cotto and Clottey (surprisingly) are the most legit fights of Manny's WW run. And that's a Cotto that at least half the fans and commentators were calling shot at the time (which is true -- he's obviously never been the fighter he was before he got pounded with plaster for 10 1/2 rounds).

It's not for nothing that loads of people were angry when the Marg and Mosley fights got made because they were clear mismatches against completely unworthy opponents. (The Margarito match is the worst offender of them all -- no way you can defend that one.)

[CFH]

Pacquiao's opposition at 147 hasn't been great and the division has been relatively mediocre for a while now, but he's consistently fought the best fighters available (Mayweather aside) and has never ducked anyone.

Give me a break. Clottey, ODLH, Margacheato, Mosley right after getting his ass beat by Floyd? These were not the "best fighters available" at the time of those fights. Go check your back-issues of the Ring, or whatever your favorite ratings are. This is a fact.

Cotto and Clottey (surprisingly) are the most legit fights of Manny's WW run. And that's a Cotto that at least half the fans and commentators were calling shot at the time (which is true -- he's obviously never been the fighter he was before he got pounded with plaster for 10 1/2 rounds).

It's not for nothing that loads of people were angry when the Marg and Mosley fights got made because they were clear mismatches against completely unworthy opponents. (The Margarito match is the worst offender of them all -- no way you can defend that one.)

I'm not saying, Cotto aside, that any of them were great opponents, only that, unless Pacquiao was going to fight Mayweather, there wasn't anyone better available. Ortiz, who despite beating Berto is not a great fighter, had his reputation in tatters and was still at 140 and Berto, while a legit Welter, was viewed similarly. People, myself included, criticised the Margarito and Mosley fights because we wanted to see Pacquiao fight Mayweather, but he choice of opposition was pretty limited at 147. To be honest, I think he would have been better off dropping to 140 and taking on the best of that division, but he didn't do that.

Who would have been better for Pacquiao at 147? Because he would have been as criticized for fighting the two guys you listed as he was for fighting Margarito, Mosley, and Clottey. Maybe Paul Williams, but nobody was jumping to fight him at that point.

[shza]

Pacquiao's opposition at 147 hasn't been great and the division has been relatively mediocre for a while now, but he's consistently fought the best fighters available (Mayweather aside) and has never ducked anyone.

Give me a break. Clottey, ODLH, Margacheato, Mosley right after getting his ass beat by Floyd? These were not the "best fighters available" at the time of those fights. Go check your back-issues of the Ring, or whatever your favorite ratings are. This is a fact.

Cotto and Clottey (surprisingly) are the most legit fights of Manny's WW run. And that's a Cotto that at least half the fans and commentators were calling shot at the time (which is true -- he's obviously never been the fighter he was before he got pounded with plaster for 10 1/2 rounds).

It's not for nothing that loads of people were angry when the Marg and Mosley fights got made because they were clear mismatches against completely unworthy opponents. (The Margarito match is the worst offender of them all -- no way you can defend that one.)

I'm not saying, Cotto aside, that any of them were great opponents, only that, unless Pacquiao was going to fight Mayweather, there wasn't anyone better available. Ortiz, who despite beating Berto is not a great fighter, had his reputation in tatters and was still at 140 and Berto, while a legit Welter, was viewed similarly. People, myself included, criticised the Margarito and Mosley fights because we wanted to see Pacquiao fight Mayweather, but he choice of opposition was pretty limited at 147. To be honest, I think he would have been better off dropping to 140 and taking on the best of that division, but he didn't do that.

Who would have been better for Pacquiao at 147? Because he would have been as criticized for fighting the two guys you listed as he was for fighting Margarito, Mosley, and Clottey. Maybe Paul Williams, but nobody was jumping to fight him at that point.

1. Mayweather, Margarito, Cotto, Paul Williams, and Mosley were all better opponents at WW when Pac fought ODLH.
2. Cotto was probably the best opponent other than Mayweather when pac fought him; some might argue Mosley would have been better.
3. Mayweather and Mosley were the best opponents when Pac fought Clottey.
4. Mayweather and Berto were the best opponents when Pac signed to fight Mosley (PBF and Ortiz were the best opponents by the time the Mosley fight actually went down).

JMM was not a WW, so I'll leave that one off. Going into it though, it looked like a Gimme for Pac and that was obviously Team Pac's intent.

So it's misleading to say that Pac fought all the best opponents at 147. He did fight three of them, but only Cotto was actually toward the top of the division *at the time Pac agreed to fight him* -- the other two (Mosley and Margacheato) were clearly not the best available by the time Pac agreed to fight them (the same move Floyd pulls). ODLH and Clottey were never thought to be among the cream of the WW crop at any time during Pac's stay in the division.

[FinitoElDinamita]

I never clamored for this fight in the first place.. not even 3 years ago..

For what? Just because a fight is regarded as a superfight on PAPER doesn't mean that it's going to meet its expectations..

I could care less if it's a bout between two of the best... I just look at style matchups and these two guys dont blend well..

It would be a brutal, one sided beatdown and Im not sure too many people would want to watch that..

This aint no Leonard-Hearns or Morales-Barrera..

It would turn out to be an uneventful fight..

[Mr140]

Chf i think after what Marquez did to pac Mayweathers win over him is on par with any win that pac has had i putting that up there for him now. Everyone was saying how Marquez was not good at ww after the Mayweather fight and it just showed only because he fought Mayweather.

[Violent Demise]

Furthermore, Mayweather has fought intermittently and cherry-picked his opponents since moving to 147 <b>while Pacquiao has beaten the best in the division</b>.

What? A post-plaster-beaten Cotto, a non-cheating, a post-Mosley-exposed Margarito, Josh Clottey, and Mayweather's leftovers (Mosley and a super-shot ODLH)? <i>That</i> is cherry-picking at least as bad as Floyd's (they are both guilty of it, don't get me wrong). The "best" fighters at WW at the time Pac was fighting those guys were Mayweather, Berto and Ortiz (unfortunately -- it's actually a pretty weak division after the top 2).

Even if he fights and beats Pacquaio, which he will, Mayweather is always going to be a fighter that is talked about in terms of what might have been.

This I agree with 100%. Maybe if he beats Pacquiao AND then moves up and beats Martinez he can claim "great" status. But I know that'll never happen.

Berto and Ortiz were far from proven when Pacquiao moved to 147.

Ortiz didn't even become a welter until April 2011 when he fought Berto and, after the Maidana embarrassment and the draw with Peterson, he wasn't considered an upper echelon fighter until he beat Berto in 2011. By that point Pacquiao was contracted to fight Mosley and had already fought Cotto (who a great many people picked to beat him), Clottey, and Margarito, each of whom was ranked in the top 5 of the division when they fought Pacquiao IIRC.

Berto had just come off a very disappointing fight with Collazo (where most people felt he had gotten a gift decision) when Pacquiao moved up to 147, and I don't know if his stock had even been lower. He still hasn't entirely rebuilt his reputation.

Pacquiao's opposition at 147 hasn't been great and the division has been relatively mediocre for a while now, but he's consistently fought the best fighters available (Mayweather aside) and has never ducked anyone. He's also not really a Welter, as his weights prove, which (IMO) make his accomplishments all the more impressive. At best, he's a Jr. Welter who could probably still make lightweight.

Yes he can. Yet he made Marquez come in at 143 in search of an advantage. They should of fought at 135

[FinitoElDinamita]

I'm going hiding for the meantime. Congrats to Mr. Marquez I had you winning too. I will forever love PAC regardless

First Filipino I hear that gave the nod to Marquez . Cool.

Because Pavlik knows his boxing.. He's knowledgable enough to be objective unlike these other idiots.

Here's a pinoy I can respect..

[CFH]

Pacquiao's opposition at 147 hasn't been great and the division has been relatively mediocre for a while now, but he's consistently fought the best fighters available (Mayweather aside) and has never ducked anyone.

Give me a break. Clottey, ODLH, Margacheato, Mosley right after getting his ass beat by Floyd? These were not the "best fighters available" at the time of those fights. Go check your back-issues of the Ring, or whatever your favorite ratings are. This is a fact.

Cotto and Clottey (surprisingly) are the most legit fights of Manny's WW run. And that's a Cotto that at least half the fans and commentators were calling shot at the time (which is true -- he's obviously never been the fighter he was before he got pounded with plaster for 10 1/2 rounds).

It's not for nothing that loads of people were angry when the Marg and Mosley fights got made because they were clear mismatches against completely unworthy opponents. (The Margarito match is the worst offender of them all -- no way you can defend that one.)

I'm not saying, Cotto aside, that any of them were great opponents, only that, unless Pacquiao was going to fight Mayweather, there wasn't anyone better available. Ortiz, who despite beating Berto is not a great fighter, had his reputation in tatters and was still at 140 and Berto, while a legit Welter, was viewed similarly. People, myself included, criticised the Margarito and Mosley fights because we wanted to see Pacquiao fight Mayweather, but he choice of opposition was pretty limited at 147. To be honest, I think he would have been better off dropping to 140 and taking on the best of that division, but he didn't do that.

Who would have been better for Pacquiao at 147? Because he would have been as criticized for fighting the two guys you listed as he was for fighting Margarito, Mosley, and Clottey. Maybe Paul Williams, but nobody was jumping to fight him at that point.

1. Mayweather, Margarito, Cotto, Paul Williams, and Mosley were all better opponents at WW when Pac fought ODLH.
2. Cotto was probably the best opponent other than Mayweather when pac fought him; some might argue Mosley would have been better.
3. Mayweather and Mosley were the best opponents when Pac fought Clottey.
4. Mayweather and Berto were the best opponents when Pac signed to fight Mosley (PBF and Ortiz were the best opponents by the time the Mosley fight actually went down).

JMM was not a WW, so I'll leave that one off. Going into it though, it looked like a Gimme for Pac and that was obviously Team Pac's intent.

So it's misleading to say that Pac fought all the best opponents at 147. He did fight three of them, but only Cotto was actually toward the top of the division *at the time Pac agreed to fight him* -- the other two (Mosley and Margacheato) were clearly not the best available by the time Pac agreed to fight them (the same move Floyd pulls). ODLH and Clottey were never thought to be among the cream of the WW crop at any time during Pac's stay in the division.

I didn't include the ODH fight because it was Pacquiao's fight bout at 147, after only one at 140, but he was absolutely not among the elite of 147 at that time. That being said, almost everyone picked ODH to win convincingly.

We, at least somewhat, agree on Cotto. Clottey was a stay busy fight after negotiations with Mayweather collapsed. He was still a highly-ranked, viable opponent, who a lot of people felt was on the wrong end of a bad decision against Cotto in his last fight.

The Margarito fight is an interesting one. The primary rationale behind Pacquiao fighting him instead of Mosley was to grab a piece of the JMW title. That it was even for a belt was ridiculous, still Margarito, based on size alone, was a legitimate threat and was a top-ranked (no pun intended) opponent. Would Mosley at 147 have been a better fight? Yes, I would agree with that. However, Pacquiao did face him in his next fight, again when a Mayweather fight again couldn't be made.

I don't think Mosley was a great opponent either, but he was still highly ranked when the fight was made and I would strongly disagree that Berto, who had done nothing overly notable since dodging a Collazo rematch, was a better choice. By that point the division was a wasteland after the top 2.

So, aside from facing Mosley (who he did eventually fight) instead of Clottey or Margarito, both of whom were legitimate, if disappointing, opponents, I do believe that Pacquiao took the best non-PBF fights which were available.

[Rantcatrat]

Pacquiao only wishes he had fought Marquez at 135. In retrospect, that was a mistake on Pacquiao's part because the weight actually benefited Marquez. He took Pacquiao's punches better. He punched with more authority. He seemed more confident.

[Rantcatrat]

Pacquiao's opposition at 147 hasn't been great and the division has been relatively mediocre for a while now, but he's consistently fought the best fighters available (Mayweather aside) and has never ducked anyone.

Give me a break. Clottey, ODLH, Margacheato, Mosley right after getting his ass beat by Floyd? These were not the "best fighters available" at the time of those fights. Go check your back-issues of the Ring, or whatever your favorite ratings are. This is a fact.

Cotto and Clottey (surprisingly) are the most legit fights of Manny's WW run. And that's a Cotto that at least half the fans and commentators were calling shot at the time (which is true -- he's obviously never been the fighter he was before he got pounded with plaster for 10 1/2 rounds).

It's not for nothing that loads of people were angry when the Marg and Mosley fights got made because they were clear mismatches against completely unworthy opponents. (The Margarito match is the worst offender of them all -- no way you can defend that one.)

I'm not saying, Cotto aside, that any of them were great opponents, only that, unless Pacquiao was going to fight Mayweather, there wasn't anyone better available. Ortiz, who despite beating Berto is not a great fighter, had his reputation in tatters and was still at 140 and Berto, while a legit Welter, was viewed similarly. People, myself included, criticised the Margarito and Mosley fights because we wanted to see Pacquiao fight Mayweather, but he choice of opposition was pretty limited at 147. To be honest, I think he would have been better off dropping to 140 and taking on the best of that division, but he didn't do that.

Who would have been better for Pacquiao at 147? Because he would have been as criticized for fighting the two guys you listed as he was for fighting Margarito, Mosley, and Clottey. Maybe Paul Williams, but nobody was jumping to fight him at that point.

1. Mayweather, Margarito, Cotto, Paul Williams, and Mosley were all better opponents at WW when Pac fought ODLH.
2. Cotto was probably the best opponent other than Mayweather when pac fought him; some might argue Mosley would have been better.
3. Mayweather and Mosley were the best opponents when Pac fought Clottey.
4. Mayweather and Berto were the best opponents when Pac signed to fight Mosley (PBF and Ortiz were the best opponents by the time the Mosley fight actually went down).

JMM was not a WW, so I'll leave that one off. Going into it though, it looked like a Gimme for Pac and that was obviously Team Pac's intent.

So it's misleading to say that Pac fought all the best opponents at 147. He did fight three of them, but only Cotto was actually toward the top of the division *at the time Pac agreed to fight him* -- the other two (Mosley and Margacheato) were clearly not the best available by the time Pac agreed to fight them (the same move Floyd pulls). ODLH and Clottey were never thought to be among the cream of the WW crop at any time during Pac's stay in the division.

I didn't include the ODH fight because it was Pacquiao's fight bout at 147, after only one at 140, but he was absolutely not among the elite of 147 at that time. That being said, almost everyone picked ODH to win convincingly.

We, at least somewhat, agree on Cotto. Clottey was a stay busy fight after negotiations with Mayweather collapsed. He was still a highly-ranked, viable opponent, who a lot of people felt was on the wrong end of a bad decision against Cotto in his last fight.

The Margarito fight is an interesting one. The primary rationale behind Pacquiao fighting him instead of Mosley was to grab a piece of the JMW title. That it was even for a belt was ridiculous, still Margarito, based on size alone, was a legitimate threat and was a top-ranked (no pun intended) opponent. Would Mosley at 147 have been a better fight? Yes, I would agree with that. However, Pacquiao did face him in his next fight, again when a Mayweather fight again couldn't be made.

I don't think Mosley was a great opponent either, but he was still highly ranked when the fight was made and I would strongly disagree that Berto, who had done nothing overly notable since dodging a Collazo rematch, was a better choice. By that point the division was a wasteland after the top 2.

So, aside from facing Mosley (who he did eventually fight) instead of Clottey or Margarito, both of whom were legitimate, if disappointing, opponents, I do believe that Pacquiao took the best non-PBF fights which were available.

I completely agree with you. The question I always ask is what other fights that were available should X boxer have taken? For example, say what you want about the Klitschkos but there aren't any fights they've dodged.

It's another thing to make the argument that division and those opponents were/are weak though.

[Rantcatrat]

Pacquiao's opposition at 147 hasn't been great and the division has been relatively mediocre for a while now, but he's consistently fought the best fighters available (Mayweather aside) and has never ducked anyone.

Give me a break. Clottey, ODLH, Margacheato, Mosley right after getting his ass beat by Floyd? These were not the "best fighters available" at the time of those fights. Go check your back-issues of the Ring, or whatever your favorite ratings are. This is a fact.

Cotto and Clottey (surprisingly) are the most legit fights of Manny's WW run. And that's a Cotto that at least half the fans and commentators were calling shot at the time (which is true -- he's obviously never been the fighter he was before he got pounded with plaster for 10 1/2 rounds).

It's not for nothing that loads of people were angry when the Marg and Mosley fights got made because they were clear mismatches against completely unworthy opponents. (The Margarito match is the worst offender of them all -- no way you can defend that one.)

I'm not saying, Cotto aside, that any of them were great opponents, only that, unless Pacquiao was going to fight Mayweather, there wasn't anyone better available. Ortiz, who despite beating Berto is not a great fighter, had his reputation in tatters and was still at 140 and Berto, while a legit Welter, was viewed similarly. People, myself included, criticised the Margarito and Mosley fights because we wanted to see Pacquiao fight Mayweather, but he choice of opposition was pretty limited at 147. To be honest, I think he would have been better off dropping to 140 and taking on the best of that division, but he didn't do that.

Who would have been better for Pacquiao at 147? Because he would have been as criticized for fighting the two guys you listed as he was for fighting Margarito, Mosley, and Clottey. Maybe Paul Williams, but nobody was jumping to fight him at that point.

1. Mayweather, Margarito, Cotto, Paul Williams, and Mosley were all better opponents at WW when Pac fought ODLH.
2. Cotto was probably the best opponent other than Mayweather when pac fought him; some might argue Mosley would have been better.
3. Mayweather and Mosley were the best opponents when Pac fought Clottey.
4. Mayweather and Berto were the best opponents when Pac signed to fight Mosley (PBF and Ortiz were the best opponents by the time the Mosley fight actually went down).

JMM was not a WW, so I'll leave that one off. Going into it though, it looked like a Gimme for Pac and that was obviously Team Pac's intent.

So it's misleading to say that Pac fought all the best opponents at 147. He did fight three of them, but only Cotto was actually toward the top of the division *at the time Pac agreed to fight him* -- the other two (Mosley and Margacheato) were clearly not the best available by the time Pac agreed to fight them (the same move Floyd pulls). ODLH and Clottey were never thought to be among the cream of the WW crop at any time during Pac's stay in the division.

Who did Mayweather fight during this time?

[Carl9234]

So if floyd doesn't face manny who does he fight next?? I'd personally still like to see the fight, just to put the debate to bed once and for all if nothing else.