Final thoughts on Pac-JMM III

[:::PSL:::]

lt was a great great fight. i really enjoyed it. Too bad some people still think it was a robbery.

It's not just "some" people. Go to HBO Boxing and see the big percentage of people who voted that JMM was robbed. Did you see the JC Chavez Jr. fight last saturday? Did you see the HBO polls as well as the experts/commentator polls? It's way more than "some" people that think JMM got robbed.

oh yeah? explain to me how he got robbed.

...

[TheBranMan]

lt was a great great fight. i really enjoyed it. Too bad some people still think it was a robbery.

It's not just "some" people. Go to HBO Boxing and see the big percentage of people who voted that JMM was robbed. Did you see the JC Chavez Jr. fight last saturday? Did you see the HBO polls as well as the experts/commentator polls? It's way more than "some" people that think JMM got robbed.

oh yeah? explain to me how he got robbed.

...

It's been explained far too many times already on these forums. Marquez was in control the entire fight, landing the clean effective blows - any time Pac let his hands go he would get countered. It would've been generous to have given Pac 4 rounds. For the judges to mess up not only the scores on the last fight (which Marquez won too, albeit was a bit closer), but to give Pac the win when he was clearly beaten this time round is disgusting. The almighty dollar won this one for Pac.

JMM - One of the greatest of the legendary Mexican fighters, who's been screwed over twice (arguably 3 times) now.
Pac - Cash cow.

[Mars_ax]

[QUOTE=TheBranMan;1028654][QUOTE=:::PSL:::;1028653]

lt was a great great fight. i really enjoyed it. Too bad some people still think it was a robbery.

JMM - One of the greatest of the legendary Mexican fighters, who's been screwed over twice (arguably 3 times) now.
Pac - Cash cow.

Yo asshole, get the fuck out of my thread with that shit.

[Dench]

The first time I watched the fight on Live TV, I was convinced that Marquez won the fight. Then I happen to got a copy of the fight from one of my friend, and watched the fight again. Now I have watched it for 5 times, and slowly Im beginning to realize that Pac really won the fight.

As much as I wanted to explain to myself, I just couldnt get the idea of how pacman won the fight until after a couple of days. I have my few points below:

1. Pacman wasnt dominating, he was being challenged, and there was a sense of competition.
2. People (media and fans alike) seemed to have that notion/expectation that whenever Pacman fights someone other than Floyd, he will dominate. Same goes to Floyd for this instance.
3. People was unconsciously thinking "marquez beat pacman twice" and "pacman will prove them wrong, and end all doubts" -- this plays crucial role on judgement, since you will look into the fight using these as footholds.
4. Pacman was landing his punches as marquez does -- but pacman was trowing & landing more, while marquez was landing few but clean punches.
5. Marquez seemed to let go of his pedal during the last 4 rounds, and waited pacman to charged in.


With these, I can say now that there was no robbery. The fight is a hairline close and could have gone either way. If the judges ruled it a draw, I can live with it. But now, I cant see marquez winning the fight anymore. He almost got the win, but he himself let go of it. If only he finished stronger, he could have snatched it.

So true, If you really want to win, you should act like you are willing to die for it, or at least try.

[Mars_ax]

The first time I watched the fight on Live TV, I was convinced that Marquez won the fight. Then I happen to got a copy of the fight from one of my friend, and watched the fight again. Now I have watched it for 5 times, and slowly Im beginning to realize that Pac really won the fight.

As much as I wanted to explain to myself, I just couldnt get the idea of how pacman won the fight until after a couple of days. I have my few points below:

1. Pacman wasnt dominating, he was being challenged, and there was a sense of competition.
2. People (media and fans alike) seemed to have that notion/expectation that whenever Pacman fights someone other than Floyd, he will dominate. Same goes to Floyd for this instance.
3. People was unconsciously thinking "marquez beat pacman twice" and "pacman will prove them wrong, and end all doubts" -- this plays crucial role on judgement, since you will look into the fight using these as footholds.
4. Pacman was landing his punches as marquez does -- but pacman was trowing & landing more, while marquez was landing few but clean punches.
5. Marquez seemed to let go of his pedal during the last 4 rounds, and waited pacman to charged in.


With these, I can say now that there was no robbery. The fight is a hairline close and could have gone either way. If the judges ruled it a draw, I can live with it. But now, I cant see marquez winning the fight anymore. He almost got the win, but he himself let go of it. If only he finished stronger, he could have snatched it.

So true, If you really want to win, you should act like you are willing to die for it, or at least try.

Good post Dench, everyone has a right to have a "reasonable" opinion about the fight, I don't however believe it's reasonable to assume that either Pug dominated the other, that the fight wasn't close, or that it was some kind of conspiratorial robbery.

That being said, while i'll admit i'm more of a fan of Pacquiao than I am JMM, and might be slightly prejudice in my view of the fight, for reasons that I outlined in the OP, I had it, Pac 7-5 or Pac 7-4-1 even. I watched the replay 3 times and could not find more than 4 or 5 rounds to give to Marquez. For me it's just that simple, a close fight that I had Pacquiao winning, but even a draw would have been acceptable.

cheers

[Dench]

The first time I watched the fight on Live TV, I was convinced that Marquez won the fight. Then I happen to got a copy of the fight from one of my friend, and watched the fight again. Now I have watched it for 5 times, and slowly Im beginning to realize that Pac really won the fight.

As much as I wanted to explain to myself, I just couldnt get the idea of how pacman won the fight until after a couple of days. I have my few points below:

1. Pacman wasnt dominating, he was being challenged, and there was a sense of competition.
2. People (media and fans alike) seemed to have that notion/expectation that whenever Pacman fights someone other than Floyd, he will dominate. Same goes to Floyd for this instance.
3. People was unconsciously thinking "marquez beat pacman twice" and "pacman will prove them wrong, and end all doubts" -- this plays crucial role on judgement, since you will look into the fight using these as footholds.
4. Pacman was landing his punches as marquez does -- but pacman was trowing & landing more, while marquez was landing few but clean punches.
5. Marquez seemed to let go of his pedal during the last 4 rounds, and waited pacman to charged in.


With these, I can say now that there was no robbery. The fight is a hairline close and could have gone either way. If the judges ruled it a draw, I can live with it. But now, I cant see marquez winning the fight anymore. He almost got the win, but he himself let go of it. If only he finished stronger, he could have snatched it.

So true, If you really want to win, you should act like you are willing to die for it, or at least try.

Good post Dench, everyone has a right to have a "reasonable" opinion about the fight, I don't however believe it's reasonable to assume that either Pug dominated the other, that the fight wasn't close, or that it was some kind of conspiratorial robbery.

That being said, while i'll admit i'm more of a fan of Pacquiao than I am JMM, and might be slightly prejudice in my view of the fight, for reasons that I outlined in the OP, I had it, Pac 7-5 or Pac 7-4-1 even. I watched the replay 3 times and could not find more than 4 or 5 rounds to give to Marquez. For me it's just that simple, a close fight that I had Pacquiao winning, but even a draw would have been acceptable.

cheers

I couldnt agree more mate.
I was thinking after the fight that Pacman lost. After a few days still I stand by it, and was even thinking maybe judges saw more money in pac than marquez - thats why they give the nod to pac on the very close rounds which proved to be tough to call.

Then now I am thinking, maybe I saw pacman losing because he wasnt able to live up to his statement that: "he will end all doubts" (and the only way he can do that is by knocking this guy out) AND that marquez was the one who was able to prove his statement "that he has pac's number, and that he beat the man twice"

Having said that, I think most of the people saw pacman losing because he wasnt able to show the usual domination he's been doing since Hatton. And considering that he's fighting a guy at his weight class adds up to that notion, as if giving Manny even more advantage. With all these, people are expecting brutal devastation of Marquez. But that wasnt the case -- marquez was able to push pac to the limits, and suddenly, pacman is hittable, beatable and vulnerable -- something we never saw since they last fought. Add the material of surprise, who would have thought that Marquez can keep up with Manny? At 38, he is again at disadvantage. But in the ring, they were like twins with equal skills.

So at the end of the fight, people didnt saw the ferociously dominating Manny PAcman. The pac who KOd Hatton brutally, bloodied the face of Cotto, Dela hoya and Margarito, and the 2nd person to KD Mosley. But vs Marquez, Pacman is a mere human. And just because of that people were saying he lost the fight.

I am actually one of those people, and I must admit, I erred. my bad.

[Mars_ax]

The first time I watched the fight on Live TV, I was convinced that Marquez won the fight. Then I happen to got a copy of the fight from one of my friend, and watched the fight again. Now I have watched it for 5 times, and slowly Im beginning to realize that Pac really won the fight.

As much as I wanted to explain to myself, I just couldnt get the idea of how pacman won the fight until after a couple of days. I have my few points below:

1. Pacman wasnt dominating, he was being challenged, and there was a sense of competition.
2. People (media and fans alike) seemed to have that notion/expectation that whenever Pacman fights someone other than Floyd, he will dominate. Same goes to Floyd for this instance.
3. People was unconsciously thinking "marquez beat pacman twice" and "pacman will prove them wrong, and end all doubts" -- this plays crucial role on judgement, since you will look into the fight using these as footholds.
4. Pacman was landing his punches as marquez does -- but pacman was trowing & landing more, while marquez was landing few but clean punches.
5. Marquez seemed to let go of his pedal during the last 4 rounds, and waited pacman to charged in.


With these, I can say now that there was no robbery. The fight is a hairline close and could have gone either way. If the judges ruled it a draw, I can live with it. But now, I cant see marquez winning the fight anymore. He almost got the win, but he himself let go of it. If only he finished stronger, he could have snatched it.

So true, If you really want to win, you should act like you are willing to die for it, or at least try.

Good post Dench, everyone has a right to have a "reasonable" opinion about the fight, I don't however believe it's reasonable to assume that either Pug dominated the other, that the fight wasn't close, or that it was some kind of conspiratorial robbery.

That being said, while i'll admit i'm more of a fan of Pacquiao than I am JMM, and might be slightly prejudice in my view of the fight, for reasons that I outlined in the OP, I had it, Pac 7-5 or Pac 7-4-1 even. I watched the replay 3 times and could not find more than 4 or 5 rounds to give to Marquez. For me it's just that simple, a close fight that I had Pacquiao winning, but even a draw would have been acceptable.

cheers

I couldnt agree more mate.
I was thinking after the fight that Pacman lost. After a few days still I stand by it, and was even thinking maybe judges saw more money in pac than marquez - thats why they give the nod to pac on the very close rounds which proved to be tough to call.

Then now I am thinking, maybe I saw pacman losing because he wasnt able to live up to his statement that: "he will end all doubts" (and the only way he can do that is by knocking this guy out) AND that marquez was the one who was able to prove his statement "that he has pac's number, and that he beat the man twice"

Having said that, I think most of the people saw pacman losing because he wasnt able to show the usual domination he's been doing since Hatton. And considering that he's fighting a guy at his weight class adds up to that notion, as if giving Manny even more advantage. With all these, people are expecting brutal devastation of Marquez. But that wasnt the case -- marquez was able to push pac to the limits, and suddenly, pacman is hittable, beatable and vulnerable -- something we never saw since they last fought. Add the material of surprise, who would have thought that Marquez can keep up with Manny? At 38, he is again at disadvantage. But in the ring, they were like twins with equal skills.

So at the end of the fight, people didnt saw the ferociously dominating Manny PAcman. The pac who KOd Hatton brutally, bloodied the face of Cotto, Dela hoya and Margarito, and the 2nd person to KD Mosley. But vs Marquez, Pacman is a mere human. And just because of that people were saying he lost the fight.

I am actually one of those people, and I must admit, I erred. my bad.

In a nutshell, when I watched the replay I was prepared to see Pacquiao lose, because that's most of what i'd been seeing and reading. But after I watched it for myself, in HD I came to a totally different conculsion. Pacquiao was in a real fight for the 1st time in years, but he still did enough to win 7 rounds.

[johnsebastianmiran]

PAC won the fight and one of the judges failed an eye test once again and someone should give him directions that involve taking a long walk off a short pier JMM fought PAC and gave him a fight and on this no one should disagree. I don't feel anyone was dominated, frustrated but not dominated. PAC hit the target with his straight left until his punch looped from fatigue. Marquez used the ring to offset PAC's power punches and made him miss more than any other time in his career. When PAC threw punches in bunches, JMM Countered the same way with a difference from PAC, he threw his down the middle and was standing in front of PAC matching him almost punch for punch and frustrated PAC on several occasions. I could go on but I truly sat right in front of the TV and took a closer look the second time around and I did one more thing, I cut the volume on a blowhard announcer that seemed to be making Kellerman look like he swallowed a bunch of lemons that burst open on his mouth at the same time. I agree about one thing, I would have been happy with a draw because JMM improved and he wasn't even close to being hurt this time PAC didn't come to lose but he did not recognize this physically fit thirty eight year old in front of him because it's true, age is just a number. I also feel that the fight with Floyd should finally happen in May because we fans are chanting,"Shit or get off the pot gentlemen."

[:::PSL:::]

lt was a great great fight. i really enjoyed it. Too bad some people still think it was a robbery.

It's not just "some" people. Go to HBO Boxing and see the big percentage of people who voted that JMM was robbed. Did you see the JC Chavez Jr. fight last saturday? Did you see the HBO polls as well as the experts/commentator polls? It's way more than "some" people that think JMM got robbed.

oh yeah? explain to me how he got robbed.

...

It's been explained far too many times already on these forums. Marquez was in control the entire fight, landing the clean effective blows - any time Pac let his hands go he would get countered. It would've been generous to have given Pac 4 rounds. For the judges to mess up not only the scores on the last fight (which Marquez won too, albeit was a bit closer), but to give Pac the win when he was clearly beaten this time round is disgusting. The almighty dollar won this one for Pac.

JMM - One of the greatest of the legendary Mexican fighters, who's been screwed over twice (arguably 3 times) now.
Pac - Cash cow.

if marquez was landing the cleaner effective blows, then how come his face was more messed up than Pac?

Pac received a cut from a accidental headbutt and a busted lip. JMM's face though was all swollen.

[ICB]

lt was a great great fight. i really enjoyed it. Too bad some people still think it was a robbery.

It's not just "some" people. Go to HBO Boxing and see the big percentage of people who voted that JMM was robbed. Did you see the JC Chavez Jr. fight last saturday? Did you see the HBO polls as well as the experts/commentator polls? It's way more than "some" people that think JMM got robbed.

oh yeah? explain to me how he got robbed.

...

It's been explained far too many times already on these forums. Marquez was in control the entire fight, landing the clean effective blows - any time Pac let his hands go he would get countered. It would've been generous to have given Pac 4 rounds. For the judges to mess up not only the scores on the last fight (which Marquez won too, albeit was a bit closer), but to give Pac the win when he was clearly beaten this time round is disgusting. The almighty dollar won this one for Pac.

JMM - One of the greatest of the legendary Mexican fighters, who's been screwed over twice (arguably 3 times) now.
Pac - Cash cow.

if marquez was landing the cleaner effective blows, then how come his face was more messed up than Pac?

Pac received a cut from a accidental headbutt and a busted lip. JMM's face though was all swollen.

His face was swollen up vs Katsidis, Diaz, he was still winning the fights.

[:::PSL:::]

lt was a great great fight. i really enjoyed it. Too bad some people still think it was a robbery.

It's not just "some" people. Go to HBO Boxing and see the big percentage of people who voted that JMM was robbed. Did you see the JC Chavez Jr. fight last saturday? Did you see the HBO polls as well as the experts/commentator polls? It's way more than "some" people that think JMM got robbed.

oh yeah? explain to me how he got robbed.

...

It's been explained far too many times already on these forums. Marquez was in control the entire fight, landing the clean effective blows - any time Pac let his hands go he would get countered. It would've been generous to have given Pac 4 rounds. For the judges to mess up not only the scores on the last fight (which Marquez won too, albeit was a bit closer), but to give Pac the win when he was clearly beaten this time round is disgusting. The almighty dollar won this one for Pac.

JMM - One of the greatest of the legendary Mexican fighters, who's been screwed over twice (arguably 3 times) now.
Pac - Cash cow.

if marquez was landing the cleaner effective blows, then how come his face was more messed up than Pac?

Pac received a cut from a accidental headbutt and a busted lip. JMM's face though was all swollen.

His face was swollen up vs Katsidis, Diaz, he was still winning the fights.

yea. but katsidis and diaz were more fucked up after the fight. do you see where i'm getting at?

[ICB]

lt was a great great fight. i really enjoyed it. Too bad some people still think it was a robbery.

It's not just "some" people. Go to HBO Boxing and see the big percentage of people who voted that JMM was robbed. Did you see the JC Chavez Jr. fight last saturday? Did you see the HBO polls as well as the experts/commentator polls? It's way more than "some" people that think JMM got robbed.

oh yeah? explain to me how he got robbed.

...

It's been explained far too many times already on these forums. Marquez was in control the entire fight, landing the clean effective blows - any time Pac let his hands go he would get countered. It would've been generous to have given Pac 4 rounds. For the judges to mess up not only the scores on the last fight (which Marquez won too, albeit was a bit closer), but to give Pac the win when he was clearly beaten this time round is disgusting. The almighty dollar won this one for Pac.

JMM - One of the greatest of the legendary Mexican fighters, who's been screwed over twice (arguably 3 times) now.
Pac - Cash cow.

if marquez was landing the cleaner effective blows, then how come his face was more messed up than Pac?

Pac received a cut from a accidental headbutt and a busted lip. JMM's face though was all swollen.

His face was swollen up vs Katsidis, Diaz, he was still winning the fights.

yea. but katsidis and diaz were more fucked up after the fight. do you see where i'm getting at?

You can't compare damage on a fighter's face, points wise Meldrick Taylor was a mile infront vs JCC. But his face looked like it'd been rammed into brick wall, whilst JCC looked quite fresh.