Froch vs. Ward - Saturday fight/chat thread

[Rantcatrat]

Ward has a suspect chin and his best win was against Kessler, a fight he won with his head

also by the interview given on boxnation by kessler the ward camp was a bit naughty in the build up

all his other big wins his opponents have been soundly beaten by other fighters and in a much ore convincing mannor (Bika, Abraham, Green)

He has spent the whole of the supersix fighting at home, 2 of those fights in his home town

he has also had a much easier route to the final than froch

Ward is overrated

Froch by KO

Erics, the problem i see for Froch is that what's to say Ward won't fight the exact same way that he has in fights past using his head and rough-housing on the inside to smother Froch? It's been effective, why stop? Odds are he'll be the same Ward once again. Then ask yourself what can/will Froch do differently? Froch can fight backing up (Glen Johnson); Froch can box at range (Arthur Abraham); and, Froch can box (Jermain Taylor). When has Froch faced this type of fighter though? I believe it's very tough to prepare for Ward and that is part of what makes him a difficult opponent. Froch had Kid Chocolate and Tony Bellew (and some guy named Richard Pierson) to spar, but I don't see either as being able to replicate Ward well. Hopkins could. Kessler said that he had spoken to Froch on the phone and gave him tips. Hopefully, that will help Froch.

However, Froch has had trouble with speed. Dirrell had him wobbled if I recall once in their fight from catching Froch cleanly when Froch's hands were down and Taylor had him down from catching Froch cleanly in their fight. Ward has similar speed to Taylor although not as fast as Dirrell. Ward's a tough matchup for anyone at 168 and for Froch too. When I saw Ward dropped against ____ (can't recall name now), it was the guy's speed that shocked Ward. Froch doesn't have blinding speed. I believe Bute and Dirrell are tougher match-ups for Ward because of that. However, I can see Ward smother Bute too to be fair. Frankly, if Dirrell's head is in the game and he shows me he can adjust like Froch and Ward can, he may stylystically be the toughest for Ward.

Froch's best chance is that he catches Ward with something heavy earlier in the fight that makes Ward think twice about getting in range. It's possible but I suspect Ward dominates Froch with speed and rough-housing. Ward hasn't stopped anyone recently, maybe he does this time?

[shza]

Froch can box (Jermain Taylor).

Recall that Froch was losing *badly* before KO'ing Taylor.

I'm curious what the odds are for this fight. I honestly see Froch as a full class below Ward and having virtually no chance of winning the fight.

IMO he lost the fight to Dirrell. He lost to Kessler (which was the ugliest, sloppist, most amateurish looking fight I've ever seen between two supposedly elite fighters). On my cards, he's lost half of the Super 6 fights he's been in.

He looked good in the Johnson fight though, I'll give him that. So maybe he's really just improved drastically since the beginning of the tournament.

I'd still be happy to lay down a wad of cash on Ward with even halfway-decent odds.

[erics44]

Froch can box (Jermain Taylor).

Recall that Froch was losing *badly* before KO'ing Taylor.

I'm curious what the odds are for this fight. I honestly see Froch as a full class below Ward and having virtually no chance of winning the fight.

IMO he lost the fight to Dirrell. He lost to Kessler (which was the ugliest, sloppist, most amateurish looking fight I've ever seen between two supposedly elite fighters). On my cards, he's lost half of the Super 6 fights he's been in.

He looked good in the Johnson fight though, I'll give him that. So maybe he's really just improved drastically since the beginning of the tournament.

I'd still be happy to lay down a wad of cash on Ward with even halfway-decent odds.

what makes you say froch is a class below ward? which fights of wards make you say this?

against AA froch did a much better job away from home
bika, bute and calazaghi beat him a lot clearer and more comfortable
green, johnson did a much better job
miranda, how many fighters have done a better job

like i keep saying by far his best result was against kessler and all of the damage was done by the head

take the kessler fight away is ward really the superstar everyone is suggesting?

[ross]

Yep, Ward held on and held and held for dear lofe late against Bika.

[Rantcatrat]

Froch can box (Jermain Taylor).

Recall that Froch was losing *badly* before KO'ing Taylor.

I'm curious what the odds are for this fight. I honestly see Froch as a full class below Ward and having virtually no chance of winning the fight.

IMO he lost the fight to Dirrell. He lost to Kessler (which was the ugliest, sloppist, most amateurish looking fight I've ever seen between two supposedly elite fighters). On my cards, he's lost half of the Super 6 fights he's been in.

He looked good in the Johnson fight though, I'll give him that. So maybe he's really just improved drastically since the beginning of the tournament.

I'd still be happy to lay down a wad of cash on Ward with even halfway-decent odds.

The counter argument, which erics makes, is other than Kessler when has Ward look as dominant as he's made out to be? He beat Bika but the fight was closer than the scorecards suggested in my opinion. At the same time, Froch's fight against Johnson was relatively close too. Froch and Dirrell was a crappy fight and tough to score, and I believe we can be honest with ourselves that any way you look at it, it was close. In any event, we have no idea how Ward would perform against Dirrell. Dirrell. Froch looked better against Abraham than Ward did and won by more rounds.

Also, I was at Froch's fight against Taylor and I'll tell you how it looked from a spectator's perspective. Taylor was winning the fight going into the later rounds, but somewhere around round 9, give or take a round, the momentum in the fight began to swing toward Froch, at which point Froch began outboxing Taylor.

[Rantcatrat]

Erics - it's the Kessler fights that are what convince people Ward is the favorite. Call it using his head or whatever, but any way you look at it, his strategy in that fight took Kessler out of his game, and won Ward the fight. Froch wasn't as effective as Ward was against Kessler. There's just not two ways about it.

Bute and Calzaghe looked better against Bika but Froch hasn't faced Bika so the comparison doesn't work. Same goes for Allan Green.

[erics44]

Erics - it's the Kessler fights that are what convince people Ward is the favorite. Call it using his head or whatever, but any way you look at it, his strategy in that fight took Kessler out of his game, and won Ward the fight. Froch wasn't as effective as Ward was against Kessler. There's just not two ways about it.

Bute and Calzaghe looked better against Bika but Froch hasn't faced Bika so the comparison doesn't work. Same goes for Allan Green.

yep the kessler fights seem to be the yard stick

and im not making excuses but ward was in his home town and froch was in kesslers home town and by the sounds of things wards camp were a bit naughty in the build up to the fight with kes

so ward had the advantages and froch didnt, i also find it hard to believe anyone could score the froch kes fight to kessler but thats another story

and i wasnt comparing the ward bika fight to anything froch has done, i was just saying everyone is saying ward is a superstar and unbeatable, but if that was the case why hasnt he looked that way? he has struggled (or been a lot less convincing) with fighters that other people have dominated

in the last round against bika ward was in trouble, he was hanging on, another 3 rounds would have been interesting

[LobowolfXXX]

Froch can box (Jermain Taylor).

Recall that Froch was losing *badly* before KO'ing Taylor.

I'm curious what the odds are for this fight. I honestly see Froch as a full class below Ward and having virtually no chance of winning the fight.

IMO he lost the fight to Dirrell. He lost to Kessler (which was the ugliest, sloppist, most amateurish looking fight I've ever seen between two supposedly elite fighters). On my cards, he's lost half of the Super 6 fights he's been in.

He looked good in the Johnson fight though, I'll give him that. So maybe he's really just improved drastically since the beginning of the tournament.

I'd still be happy to lay down a wad of cash on Ward with even halfway-decent odds.

Ward is about a 3-1 favorite.

[shza]

Froch can box (Jermain Taylor).

Recall that Froch was losing *badly* before KO'ing Taylor.

I'm curious what the odds are for this fight. I honestly see Froch as a full class below Ward and having virtually no chance of winning the fight.

IMO he lost the fight to Dirrell. He lost to Kessler (which was the ugliest, sloppist, most amateurish looking fight I've ever seen between two supposedly elite fighters). On my cards, he's lost half of the Super 6 fights he's been in.

He looked good in the Johnson fight though, I'll give him that. So maybe he's really just improved drastically since the beginning of the tournament.

I'd still be happy to lay down a wad of cash on Ward with even halfway-decent odds.

Exactly as expected. Easy money.

I'd rather see Froch-Bute than Ward-Bute now. The first is a good, competive fight (that I pick Bute to win); the second is a wide Ward UD. Would much rather see Maravilla come up (which he's said he won't do) for Ward or see Ward go up and fight Dawson -- that's a pick'em.

For the record, I'm a serious atheist and can't stand the god-talk from Ward either - but otherwise I like him and he's very impressive. On the other hand, I've always disliked Froch and thought he was typically overrated as a big fish in a small, British pond (though he's better than Hatton, at least). It was nice to see him stop being such an arrogant jackass for once and admit he was outclassed though.

Those 115-113 judges should be suspended. This thing was 117-112 at the absolute closest. I only gave Froch round 9. (3 and 11 were the only other possibilities) But it's nice that it was the British judge who got it right.

Do the Brits who were comparing Froch favorably to Calzaghe think Ward outclasses a prime Calzaghe now? (Purely rhetorical -- I'm not ready to go there at this point.)

[Gandalf]

Froch can box (Jermain Taylor).

Recall that Froch was losing *badly* before KO'ing Taylor.

I'm curious what the odds are for this fight. I honestly see Froch as a full class below Ward and having virtually no chance of winning the fight.

IMO he lost the fight to Dirrell. He lost to Kessler (which was the ugliest, sloppist, most amateurish looking fight I've ever seen between two supposedly elite fighters). On my cards, he's lost half of the Super 6 fights he's been in.

He looked good in the Johnson fight though, I'll give him that. So maybe he's really just improved drastically since the beginning of the tournament.

I'd still be happy to lay down a wad of cash on Ward with even halfway-decent odds.

Exactly as expected. Easy money.

I'd rather see Froch-Bute than Ward-Bute now. The first is a good, competive fight (that I pick Bute to win); the second is a wide Ward UD. Would much rather see Maravilla come up (which he's said he won't do) for Ward or see Ward go up and fight Dawson -- that's a pick'em.

For the record, I'm a serious atheist and can't stand the god-talk from Ward either - but otherwise I like him and he's very impressive. On the other hand, I've always disliked Froch and thought he was typically overrated as a big fish in a small, British pond (though he's better than Hatton, at least). It was nice to see him stop being such an arrogant jackass for once and admit he was outclassed though.

Those 115-113 judges should be suspended. This thing was 117-112 at the absolute closest. I only gave Froch round 9. (3 and 11 were the only other possibilities) But it's nice that it was the British judge who got it right.

Do the Brits who were comparing Froch favorably to Calzaghe think Ward outclasses a prime Calzaghe now? (Purely rhetorical -- I'm not ready to go there at this point.)

I think Calzaghe/Ward is relatively straightforward for Calzaghe and likewise Froch was always a straightforward fight for Calzaghe too.

Ward is slick and has smarts, but he has stamina issues and there is just no way that he would be able to keep up with Calzaghe. I see it being relatively close whilst Calzaghe feels him out and then once the work rate is jacked up, then Ward is over his head.

Calzaghe has multiple gameplans too, but also has that superhuman workrate. Nobody can keep up with it. Nobody on this earth.

[shza]

Froch can box (Jermain Taylor).

Recall that Froch was losing *badly* before KO'ing Taylor.

I'm curious what the odds are for this fight. I honestly see Froch as a full class below Ward and having virtually no chance of winning the fight.

IMO he lost the fight to Dirrell. He lost to Kessler (which was the ugliest, sloppist, most amateurish looking fight I've ever seen between two supposedly elite fighters). On my cards, he's lost half of the Super 6 fights he's been in.

He looked good in the Johnson fight though, I'll give him that. So maybe he's really just improved drastically since the beginning of the tournament.

I'd still be happy to lay down a wad of cash on Ward with even halfway-decent odds.

Exactly as expected. Easy money.

I'd rather see Froch-Bute than Ward-Bute now. The first is a good, competive fight (that I pick Bute to win); the second is a wide Ward UD. Would much rather see Maravilla come up (which he's said he won't do) for Ward or see Ward go up and fight Dawson -- that's a pick'em.

For the record, I'm a serious atheist and can't stand the god-talk from Ward either - but otherwise I like him and he's very impressive. On the other hand, I've always disliked Froch and thought he was typically overrated as a big fish in a small, British pond (though he's better than Hatton, at least). It was nice to see him stop being such an arrogant jackass for once and admit he was outclassed though.

Those 115-113 judges should be suspended. This thing was 117-112 at the absolute closest. I only gave Froch round 9. (3 and 11 were the only other possibilities) But it's nice that it was the British judge who got it right.

Do the Brits who were comparing Froch favorably to Calzaghe think Ward outclasses a prime Calzaghe now? (Purely rhetorical -- I'm not ready to go there at this point.)

I think Calzaghe/Ward is relatively straightforward for Calzaghe and likewise Froch was always a straightforward fight for Calzaghe too.

Ward is slick and has smarts, but he has stamina issues and there is just no way that he would be able to keep up with Calzaghe. I see it being relatively close whilst Calzaghe feels him out and then once the work rate is jacked up, then Ward is over his head.

Calzaghe has multiple gameplans too, but also has that superhuman workrate. Nobody can keep up with it. Nobody on this earth.

I thought an old, way-past-his-prime Hopkins edged him, actually. Would have been an easy win for a prime Hopkins.

And a prime Jones would have destroyed Calzaghe.

But you may be right about Calzaghe/Ward. Too early to tell IMO.

Not trying to be dismissive of Calzaghe - he was a very, very good fighter and his workrate was indeed unreal. Just that Hopkins and Jones were best-of-generation fighters, and Calzaghe wasn't. Unclear if Ward is or not. Fairly ridiculous to claim it's "relatively straightforward," though.

[GuyIncognito76]

Wow! Via Twitter :-O

danrafaelespn: Looking at official cards from Ward-Froch. John Stewart was absolutely horrible. Had Froch up 49-46 thru 5 rds. ABSOLUTE JOKE. #boxing

I though Ward was excellent but I find his fights dull. A lot of it is not his fault, the Kessler and Froch fights were too one sided. He may have similar skills to Floyd and Roy, but there is no explosions of excitement.

[Rantcatrat]

Froch can box (Jermain Taylor).

Recall that Froch was losing *badly* before KO'ing Taylor.

I'm curious what the odds are for this fight. I honestly see Froch as a full class below Ward and having virtually no chance of winning the fight.

IMO he lost the fight to Dirrell. He lost to Kessler (which was the ugliest, sloppist, most amateurish looking fight I've ever seen between two supposedly elite fighters). On my cards, he's lost half of the Super 6 fights he's been in.

He looked good in the Johnson fight though, I'll give him that. So maybe he's really just improved drastically since the beginning of the tournament.

I'd still be happy to lay down a wad of cash on Ward with even halfway-decent odds.

Exactly as expected. Easy money.

I'd rather see Froch-Bute than Ward-Bute now. The first is a good, competive fight (that I pick Bute to win); the second is a wide Ward UD. Would much rather see Maravilla come up (which he's said he won't do) for Ward or see Ward go up and fight Dawson -- that's a pick'em.

For the record, I'm a serious atheist and can't stand the god-talk from Ward either - but otherwise I like him and he's very impressive. On the other hand, I've always disliked Froch and thought he was typically overrated as a big fish in a small, British pond (though he's better than Hatton, at least). It was nice to see him stop being such an arrogant jackass for once and admit he was outclassed though.

Those 115-113 judges should be suspended. This thing was 117-112 at the absolute closest. I only gave Froch round 9. (3 and 11 were the only other possibilities) But it's nice that it was the British judge who got it right.

Do the Brits who were comparing Froch favorably to Calzaghe think Ward outclasses a prime Calzaghe now? (Purely rhetorical -- I'm not ready to go there at this point.)

I think Calzaghe/Ward is relatively straightforward for Calzaghe and likewise Froch was always a straightforward fight for Calzaghe too.

Ward is slick and has smarts, but he has stamina issues and there is just no way that he would be able to keep up with Calzaghe. I see it being relatively close whilst Calzaghe feels him out and then once the work rate is jacked up, then Ward is over his head.

Calzaghe has multiple gameplans too, but also has that superhuman workrate. Nobody can keep up with it. Nobody on this earth.

I thought an old, way-past-his-prime Hopkins edged him, actually. Would have been an easy win for a prime Hopkins.

And a prime Jones would have destroyed Calzaghe.

But you may be right about Calzaghe/Ward. Too early to tell IMO.

Not trying to be dismissive of Calzaghe - he was a very, very good fighter and his workrate was indeed unreal. Just that Hopkins and Jones were best-of-generation fighters, and Calzaghe wasn't. Unclear if Ward is or not. Fairly ridiculous to claim it's "relatively straightforward," though.

I completely disagree, but we'll never know. Prime is a relative term. When? A prime Hopkins lost by a lot to a prime Jones. I'm in the minority but I believe Hopkins developed into a better fighter as he aged. Hopkins didn't want anything to do with Jones until Jones was passed it. I think Hopkins would have problems with Jones or Calzaghe at any stage of his career. A prime Jones would have given Calzaghe problems, but I'm not sure about the result, a prime Calzaghe had punching power too, and Jones never had the best chin. In terms of primes, I would probably give the edge to Jones, then Calzaghe, then Hopkins. At the end of the day, scoreboard.