Joe Calzaghe: Andre Ward is good but beatable

[shza]

Kessler would get beaten more decisively in a second fight with Ward than he did in the first.

Opinion and nothing else.

Hilarious, coming from you. In this thread.

Miles, you are taking this way too personally and exaggerating to an extreme to compensate.

Hopkins "turned out to be an easy win" for Calzaghe? Ward is not really very good? You don't need to jump to this kind of out-and-out hyperbole to make your point. It comes off as (and is, really) pure provocation and not even an attempt to persuade anyone to agree with you. Just like in the Manny/JMM threads.

Personally, I thought the old, Jermain Taylor-losing version of Hopkins still shaded a decision against Calzaghe. Plenty of others agree. But I'm not going to claim it was "decisive" or "easy" or pretend I can't conceive of how anyone could possibly see it any other way. Or call it a "robbery." If you score workrate above absolutely everything else, even if it's ineffective pitter-pat, you have to score the fight for Calzaghe (though still close on the cards -- not "easy").

Same with the Calzaghe-Ward point. Here, I'm generally inclined to agree that, at this point, Ward is just too young and unproven to pick in this mythical matchup. But 5 years from now? We'll see. Not out of the question. No need to completely denigrate the guy and basically say he's a completely average fighter except that he's good at clinching in order to conclude or argue that the bout favors Calzaghe at this point.

[erics44]

Hopkins didnt beat Calzaghe

He didnt win the fight

he didnt land enough punches, didnt throw enough to land them, didnt take a step forward

sometimes i can understand other sides to arguments in fights, that one there was no argument

if someone could show me any of the last 8 rounds where hopkins was on top for more than a single punch ill eat my words

[Dark Lord Al]

Hopkins didnt beat Calzaghe

He didnt win the fight

he didnt land enough punches, didnt throw enough to land them, didnt take a step forward

sometimes i can understand other sides to arguments in fights, that one there was no argument

if someone could show me any of the last 8 rounds where hopkins was on top for more than a single punch ill eat my words

Is Calzaghe your favorite fighter ?

[erics44]

Hopkins didnt beat Calzaghe

He didnt win the fight

he didnt land enough punches, didnt throw enough to land them, didnt take a step forward

sometimes i can understand other sides to arguments in fights, that one there was no argument

if someone could show me any of the last 8 rounds where hopkins was on top for more than a single punch ill eat my words

Is Calzaghe your favorite fighter ?

ha

nah he isnt that great

least i like some fighters tho eh?

[Dark Lord Al]

Hopkins didnt beat Calzaghe

He didnt win the fight

he didnt land enough punches, didnt throw enough to land them, didnt take a step forward

sometimes i can understand other sides to arguments in fights, that one there was no argument

if someone could show me any of the last 8 rounds where hopkins was on top for more than a single punch ill eat my words

Is Calzaghe your favorite fighter ?

ha

nah he isnt that great

least i like some fighters tho eh?

Tommy Hearns is my all time favorite , so it was just a simple question , sorry if the question offended you.

[erics44]

Hopkins didnt beat Calzaghe

He didnt win the fight

he didnt land enough punches, didnt throw enough to land them, didnt take a step forward

sometimes i can understand other sides to arguments in fights, that one there was no argument

if someone could show me any of the last 8 rounds where hopkins was on top for more than a single punch ill eat my words

Is Calzaghe your favorite fighter ?

ha

nah he isnt that great

least i like some fighters tho eh?

Tommy Hearns is my all time favorite , so it was just a simple question , sorry if the question offended you.

dont be sorry its a sign of weakness

and no offence taken, i thought you had turned a serious conversation into a bit of fun, so i joined in

im dissapointed in you tho, you are British right? you dont support Manchester United do you?

if you want a serious answer then I am English, Calzaghe is welsh so no he isnt my favourite fighter

[Dark Lord Al]

[QUOTE=erics44;1038940]

Hopkins didnt beat Calzaghe

He didnt win the fight

he didnt land enough punches, didnt throw enough to land them, didnt take a step forward

sometimes i can understand other sides to arguments in fights, that one there was no argument

if someone could show me any of the last 8 rounds where hopkins was on top for more than a single punch ill eat my words

Is Calzaghe your favorite fighter ?

ha

nah he isnt that great

least i like some fighters tho eh?

Tommy Hearns is my all time favorite , so it was just a simple question , sorry if the question offended you.

dont be sorry its a sign of weakness

and no offence taken, i thought you had turned a serious conversation into a bit of fun, so i joined in

im dissapointed in you tho, you are British right? you dont support Manchester United do you?

if you want a serious answer then I am English, Calzaghe is welsh so no he isnt my favourite fighter[/QUOT]

Im English , so who is your favorite fighter ?

[shza]

Hopkins didnt beat Calzaghe

He didnt win the fight

he didnt land enough punches, didnt throw enough to land them, didnt take a step forward

sometimes i can understand other sides to arguments in fights, that one there was no argument

if someone could show me any of the last 8 rounds where hopkins was on top for more than a single punch ill eat my words

Is Calzaghe your favorite fighter ?

ha

nah he isnt that great

least i like some fighters tho eh?

Tommy Hearns is my all time favorite , so it was just a simple question , sorry if the question offended you.

dont be sorry its a sign of weakness

and no offence taken, i thought you had turned a serious conversation into a bit of fun, so i joined in

im dissapointed in you tho, you are British right? you dont support Manchester United do you?

if you want a serious answer then I am English, Calzaghe is welsh so no he isnt my favourite fighter

Glad you are being honest about your irrational pro-British bias. It's obvious from all of your posts (your previous one included) but good that you at least admit it.

[Dark Lord Al]

Hopkins didnt beat Calzaghe

He didnt win the fight

he didnt land enough punches, didnt throw enough to land them, didnt take a step forward

sometimes i can understand other sides to arguments in fights, that one there was no argument

if someone could show me any of the last 8 rounds where hopkins was on top for more than a single punch ill eat my words

Is Calzaghe your favorite fighter ?

ha

nah he isnt that great

least i like some fighters tho eh?

Tommy Hearns is my all time favorite , so it was just a simple question , sorry if the question offended you.

dont be sorry its a sign of weakness

and no offence taken, i thought you had turned a serious conversation into a bit of fun, so i joined in

im dissapointed in you tho, you are British right? you dont support Manchester United do you?

if you want a serious answer then I am English, Calzaghe is welsh so no he isnt my favourite fighter

Eric being sorry is a weakness indeed , but i was being sarcastic

[Gandalf]

Kessler would get beaten more decisively in a second fight with Ward than he did in the first.

Opinion and nothing else.

Hilarious, coming from you. In this thread.

Miles, you are taking this way too personally and exaggerating to an extreme to compensate.

Hopkins "turned out to be an easy win" for Calzaghe? Ward is not really very good? You don't need to jump to this kind of out-and-out hyperbole to make your point. It comes off as (and is, really) pure provocation and not even an attempt to persuade anyone to agree with you. Just like in the Manny/JMM threads.

Personally, I thought the old, Jermain Taylor-losing version of Hopkins still shaded a decision against Calzaghe. Plenty of others agree. But I'm not going to claim it was "decisive" or "easy" or pretend I can't conceive of how anyone could possibly see it any other way. Or call it a "robbery." If you score workrate above absolutely everything else, even if it's ineffective pitter-pat, you have to score the fight for Calzaghe (though still close on the cards -- not "easy").

Same with the Calzaghe-Ward point. Here, I'm generally inclined to agree that, at this point, Ward is just too young and unproven to pick in this mythical matchup. But 5 years from now? We'll see. Not out of the question. No need to completely denigrate the guy and basically say he's a completely average fighter except that he's good at clinching in order to conclude or argue that the bout favors Calzaghe at this point.

All boxing debate is just opinion at the end of the day and I happen to believe Calzaghe is much better than Ward and that the only person to really prove a challenge would have been a prime Jones Jr. Just because you don't agree doesn't make it hyperbole. You just disagree.

I don't think Ward is terribly good, I think his style involves blatant cheating and his resume isn't all that hot either. All of those points can be backed up. I don't need hyperbole, the facts to support the opinions are there. Froch has a better resume than Andre Ward.

[FinitoElDinamita]

Ward and hopkins are from a similiar cloth.
They are savy fighters.. They are good, but not great.

[LobowolfXXX]

The older, heavier, latter day Hopkins is good. The Hopkins that went more than a decade without losing a fight and defending the 160-pound title a bazillion times was great.

[FinitoElDinamita]

The older, heavier, latter day Hopkins is good. The Hopkins that went more than a decade without losing a fight and defending the 160-pound title a bazillion times was great.

hopkins defended his mw titles against too many part time construction workers until he caught a former ww in Tito.

Based on your theory, Chris John is great too.

[Gandalf]

Who did Hopkins beat at MW to prove his greatness?

His biggest wins were small men moving up. DLH who had really already lost to Sturm and Trinidad who spent most of his career at WW.

Then after Hopkins moves up you have loads more men being called up way beyond their optimum fighting weights.

Hopkins wins over Trinidad and Tarver were significant, but no more significant than Calzaghe beating Lacy, Kessler and Hopkins himself.

[Gandalf]

People always downplay Lacy and to a degree that is correct, but he injured his shoulder and was never the same. Everyone stateside was picking Lacy. I remember it as I was new to the forum and couldn't fathom what they were all going on about.

Then there was the huge clamour to fight Kessler and Calzaghe did so. It was a HUGE fight, but again people are dissing Kessler saying he wasn't very good.

They were huge wins and Calzaghe was predicted to lose by many and then when he does fight Hopkins, he did it with relative ease after a shaky start and then everyone says 'Oh but Hopkins was old'. Well, has he continued to win his big fights? Jones Jr certainly hasn't. Is he old or not? Seemingly not, but too old for Calzaghe and yet still great to be winning titles afterwards.

People just don't like Calzaghe and don't want to give him his dues.