Joe Calzaghe: Andre Ward is good but beatable

[BIG H]

Firstly, with respect to anyone who thinks that a second Froch-Ward fight would go any differently, Froch doesn't even think he could beat Ward. He's already said that he's the second-best 168-pounder, and that nobody can beat Ward at 168.

Secondly, it's a myth that Calzaghe cleaned out the 168-pound division. He beat many good fighters, but there were A LOT of top contenders that for one reason or another, he never took on. Pick up a random Ring Magazine from the Calzaghe era, and you'll see a lot of names in the top-5 of the 168-pound division that Calzaghe never got in the ring with. That doesn't mean that he wouldn't have beaten them; but it's just patently false that he beat all of the big names in the division.

Thirdly, since the Calzaghe fight, with the exception of the Ward fight, Kessler is 5-0 (4), including a solid win against the division's #3. So it's bullshit to discount Ward's victory by saying that Kessler is somehow markedly worse than he was against Calzaghe; it's just that Ward made him LOOK bad. The 2011 Ward is better than ANY year's Kessler, and Calzaghe, while he beat him decisively, hardly "destroyed" him. To say that Ward hasn't done against anyone else the types of things that he would need to go to beat Calzaghe misses the point; it doesn't imply that Ward is incapable of doing those things. He just hasn't needed to do them against anyone else. What Ward has shown is that to date, he can do whatever is needed to beat the people put in front of him. That doesn't mean that he necessarily would be able to adjust successfully against Calzaghe, but there's no particular reason to think that he wouldn't, either. IMO, 2011 Ward vs. (insert your favorite 168-pound year here) Calzaghe would be a close, competitive, and highly entertaining fight.

Actually mate, your comment is 'The Myth' - this is a point that has been debated over and over on here. You tell me who Calzaghe should've fought at 168, that was operating at 168 at that time, and that the reason they didn't fight was JC!!

Andplease don't say Liles, Echols, Mundine and all that old blurb.

[erics44]

I need make no further points as I said in my last post..you guys make all the points for me! Apart from prime Kessler, Lacy is Calzaghes biggest win..lmao listen to yourselves...

IMO hopkins has turned out to be calzaghes best win

It was a clear victory over a man who has fought at the top level for years and has had some of his best wins right at the very top since losing to Calzaghe

hopkins has lost before but never as convincingly as Calzaghe beat him

[Fenster]

I think the opinion was that if Froch won the super six, his legacy would be better than that of Calzaghe. This was a thread we discussed in depth , well didnt Ward win the super six ?

Ward beat a much better opposition than Calzaghe , how can Mr Play it safe find fault with Ward.
Isnt a fool wise after the event.

Who though? I really don't see anyone on Ward's resume that is better than the best fighters on Calzaghe's resume. It doesn't make any sense.

You dont think Ward has fought better opposition than Calzaghe at the same stage of their respective careers ?

Calzaghe - Eubank, Reid, Woodhall, Veit, Sheika

Ward - Green, Abraham, Froch, Kessler, Miranda

There isn't all that much in it. Eubank was faded, so was Kessler. People are going to remember Green and Miranda just as much as they do Sheika and Woodhall. Abraham and Veit are your token popular in Germany fighters. Reid was a good fighter though never going to go down as a great, a bit like Froch who only beat a well faded Reid.

The only difference was Calzaghe was busier and had more filler.

You mean had alot of defences against club fighters ?

Sheika had lost to Tony Booth for fucks sake.

Yet beaten Glen Johnson.

The Glen Johnson, Calzaghe was deadly afraid to face.

Yep the same Glen Johnson that Sheika had just beat before Calzaghe smashed him all over the ring.

[Fenster]

I need make no further points as I said in my last post..you guys make all the points for me! Apart from prime Kessler, Lacy is Calzaghes biggest win..lmao listen to yourselves...

IMO hopkins has turned out to be calzaghes best win

It was a clear victory over a man who has fought at the top level for years and has had some of his best wins right at the very top since losing to Calzaghe

hopkins has lost before but never as convincingly as Calzaghe beat him

Althguz thinks all British fighters are shit, pussy, overrated etc...

Oh sorry, apart from his mate Larry Olubamiwo, he was a guy to look out for ()

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

Back in the day Joe could slap a motherfucker out... Not really sure what happened to his power over the years But i'm sure it would of been a very close fight either way. Joe looked far from unbeatable but always won... Ward is pretty flawless and shrewd but he wouldn't put a dent in Joe's confidence so i think it'd be Joe who finishes the more vibrantly... It just depends on how things went down during the first 8 rounds.

Hmmm...

Okay, i'd be more inclined to see how Ward's career develops over the next 3-5 years but i'm thinking this would be a slightly epic draw.

REMATCH!

joe had a couple of fights, reid and one other where he didnt really perform but appart from that which fights did he look beatable in?

every other fight he had were pretty confortable

I think he looked average in a few successive fights against seemingly lesser opp, getting rocked and decked and just not performing that greatly. I think that's a factor when up against a real technician like Ward.

[Gandalf]

Back in the day Joe could slap a motherfucker out... Not really sure what happened to his power over the years But i'm sure it would of been a very close fight either way. Joe looked far from unbeatable but always won... Ward is pretty flawless and shrewd but he wouldn't put a dent in Joe's confidence so i think it'd be Joe who finishes the more vibrantly... It just depends on how things went down during the first 8 rounds.

Hmmm...

Okay, i'd be more inclined to see how Ward's career develops over the next 3-5 years but i'm thinking this would be a slightly epic draw.

REMATCH!

joe had a couple of fights, reid and one other where he didnt really perform but appart from that which fights did he look beatable in?

every other fight he had were pretty confortable

I think he looked average in a few successive fights against seemingly lesser opp, getting rocked and decked and just not performing that greatly. I think that's a factor when up against a real technician like Ward.

It's not as though Ward has never been hurt before or been clinging to survive. He is extremely vulnerable, but the likes of Froch and Green are not going to be able to do anything because they are a rung or even 2 below the level that Calzaghe brought to the division.

It's easy to state that Ward is a technician, but since when has that ever bothered Calzaghe who has shown he can outwork crafty fighters. Ward has never fought anyone like Joe Calzaghe. It would be a real eye opener for him and I can see him being shell shocked after a couple of rounds. He was looking panicky against Froch towards the end. Since when has Hopkins or Floyd Mayweather ever look panicky. It would be like Floyd getting tired after ten against Baldomir and start clinging on for dear life. It just doesn't happen. Ward is simply not on that level and chin and stamina are his weaknesses.

Calzaghe has most of his opponents doing the Iggy Pop thousand yard stare by the half way mark. Ward would be no different. He is savvy with the clinching etc, but overall does nothing particularly outstanding. I don't see how he can trouble Calzaghe. Calzaghe would rip him with 4 punches before Octopus man gets his grip around him. Rinse and repeat.

[erics44]

Back in the day Joe could slap a motherfucker out... Not really sure what happened to his power over the years But i'm sure it would of been a very close fight either way. Joe looked far from unbeatable but always won... Ward is pretty flawless and shrewd but he wouldn't put a dent in Joe's confidence so i think it'd be Joe who finishes the more vibrantly... It just depends on how things went down during the first 8 rounds.

Hmmm...

Okay, i'd be more inclined to see how Ward's career develops over the next 3-5 years but i'm thinking this would be a slightly epic draw.

REMATCH!

joe had a couple of fights, reid and one other where he didnt really perform but appart from that which fights did he look beatable in?

every other fight he had were pretty confortable

I think he looked average in a few successive fights against seemingly lesser opp, getting rocked and decked and just not performing that greatly. I think that's a factor when up against a real technician like Ward.

which fights was he decked hurt against which lesser opposition?

he was first decked and the first time he looked in the slightest bit hurt was against byron mitchell and he blasted him away the next round

then that salaman whatever his name was decked him but im sure he won every round in that fight appart from that one

bika bloodied his face but all with the head and joe was never hurt in the fight, again joe won every round bar 1 or 2, did a much better job than ward did on bika

then hopkins puts him down, flash knock down, and joe won that fight comfortably

then jones put him down (which was the only other time he actually looked hurt as well as against Mitchell) and that was the only round he lost

At this point in his career Ward wouldnt beat Joe Calzaghe and he would have to improve greatly to have any chance

[Gandalf]

I would also like to see Ward being warned and docked for his holding. I despise holding and clinching and it is nothing more than a spoiling tactic. If it's good enough for Khan then it is good enough for Ward and it would also mean a fair fight for the opponent and a better fight for the fans.

I apply the same logic to many fighters. Hopkins is the other obvious one.

[erics44]

I would also like to see Ward being warned and docked for his holding. I despise holding and clinching and it is nothing more than a spoiling tactic. If it's good enough for Khan then it is good enough for Ward and it would also mean a fair fight for the opponent and a better fight for the fans.

I apply the same logic to many fighters. Hopkins is the other obvious one.

mate, it amazes me that the ward kessler fight went without any points taken off and how, since, when everyone refers back to it talks about what a good performance it was

every single cut on Kesslers face was made by the head, everytime ward missed with a punch his head went straight in

[Gandalf]

I would also like to see Ward being warned and docked for his holding. I despise holding and clinching and it is nothing more than a spoiling tactic. If it's good enough for Khan then it is good enough for Ward and it would also mean a fair fight for the opponent and a better fight for the fans.

I apply the same logic to many fighters. Hopkins is the other obvious one.

mate, it amazes me that the ward kessler fight went without any points taken off and how, since, when everyone refers back to it talks about what a good performance it was

every single cut on Kesslers face was made by the head, everytime ward missed with a punch his head went straight in

I watched it again this evening just to recap and I was appalled.

Granted it was Ward on the major stage for the first time, but he has got away with it ever since. It was a shameful performance and I really believe Kessler deserves a rematch and that he would do much better.

Kessler had no expectation of any of that nastiness. He paid the penalty.

And then Ward launches into his 'Good lord' spiel afterwards and his wife of course was interviewed during the fight and declared that Ward was fighting for his Lord or something like that. Completely brainwashed weirdos.

And like many Christians they fight dirty and then pray to the lord for forgiveness afterwards. You cheated, you were horrible. 'Oh but the good lord forgives those that buy into the babble'.

Cue projectile vomiting.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

I think Hopkins had to dig deep against Calzaghe, mentally. It look at one point like he'd begun to loose interest but managed to fight very competitively in the championship rounds basically levelling things out.

Mayweather during something like rounds 2 to 4 was looking pretty heated by Ricky's constant proximity before he adjusted.

Ward was underpressure more in the last 12 rounds than any other round so of course mentally, given frochs reputation, it's gonna disturb you a bit. I assumed Ward would of had him all figured out but I guess your prone to wilt a little when you've been doin everything right for 85% of the fight and you suddenly realise it just stopped working.

Calzaghe definately has a superior mentality in that respect because indeed he can rise from a knockdown, hurt and still say 'I'm better than you' and just go out swinging. To want to out 'Roy Jones' Roy Jones himself and to just be audacious in the ring. He looked lost against Hopkins untill he started to outwork and harass him. But that's Hopkins. A man who since 2004 had been on Eco mode... Just doesn't reflect what Andre Ward is capable of doing in the ring.

[LobowolfXXX]

Kessler would get beaten more decisively in a second fight with Ward than he did in the first.

[LobowolfXXX]

Firstly, with respect to anyone who thinks that a second Froch-Ward fight would go any differently, Froch doesn't even think he could beat Ward. He's already said that he's the second-best 168-pounder, and that nobody can beat Ward at 168.

Secondly, it's a myth that Calzaghe cleaned out the 168-pound division. He beat many good fighters, but there were A LOT of top contenders that for one reason or another, he never took on. Pick up a random Ring Magazine from the Calzaghe era, and you'll see a lot of names in the top-5 of the 168-pound division that Calzaghe never got in the ring with. That doesn't mean that he wouldn't have beaten them; but it's just patently false that he beat all of the big names in the division.

Thirdly, since the Calzaghe fight, with the exception of the Ward fight, Kessler is 5-0 (4), including a solid win against the division's #3. So it's bullshit to discount Ward's victory by saying that Kessler is somehow markedly worse than he was against Calzaghe; it's just that Ward made him LOOK bad. The 2011 Ward is better than ANY year's Kessler, and Calzaghe, while he beat him decisively, hardly "destroyed" him. To say that Ward hasn't done against anyone else the types of things that he would need to go to beat Calzaghe misses the point; it doesn't imply that Ward is incapable of doing those things. He just hasn't needed to do them against anyone else. What Ward has shown is that to date, he can do whatever is needed to beat the people put in front of him. That doesn't mean that he necessarily would be able to adjust successfully against Calzaghe, but there's no particular reason to think that he wouldn't, either. IMO, 2011 Ward vs. (insert your favorite 168-pound year here) Calzaghe would be a close, competitive, and highly entertaining fight.

Actually mate, your comment is 'The Myth' - this is a point that has been debated over and over on here. You tell me who Calzaghe should've fought at 168, that was operating at 168 at that time, and that the reason they didn't fight was JC!!

Andplease don't say Liles, Echols, Mundine and all that old blurb.

I didn't say anything about "the reason" Calzaghe didn't fight them; but the fact is, he didn't. Again, just pick up a Ring Magazine during the Calzaghe era. You'll see lots of names in the top-5 that Calzaghe never fought. Sorry, I missed the earlier debates, but why are supposed to ignore Echols and Mundine? They were #s 3 and 4 in the 2003 and 2004 annual rankings, when Calzaghe was defending against people like Kabary Salem and Mger Mkrtchyan. But those are hardly the only names. Look at Calzaghe's record, and look at the names of the people in the top 5 during his time as a top 168-pound champion and contender.

Ward is 27, and he's beaten three of the top 5 in the weight class, and four of the top 10.

[Gandalf]

Kessler would get beaten more decisively in a second fight with Ward than he did in the first.

Opinion and nothing else.

[LobowolfXXX]

Kessler would get beaten more decisively in a second fight with Ward than he did in the first.

Opinion and nothing else.

As is all of your speculation about what would happen in a second Ward-Kessler fight, or what would have happened in a hypothetical Ward-Calzaghe fight.