What are your criticisms of the boxing programming at HBO/Showtime?

[captainanddew]

stop overpaying for fights!!!! HBO has been horrible at that. Guys like Bradley and Berto get paid too much. Neither guy can make money without tv because they aren't live draws.

Showtime would pay about 1/2 as much as HBO does and yet HBO pays way too much.

IF you are pricing fights then why doesn't HBO think about how much Showtime will pay for a fight-and then add a 100,000.

Not pay a fighter 1,000,000 for a fight where Showtime would pay 400,000-500,000. IT IS PURE LUNACY.

You can easily do this as well. The purses for the showtime fights are published by the commissions in many states (I believe). Keep a log of all of those and then you can accurately guess how much Showtime will pay.

[Gandalf]

I think HBO need to get rid of Manny Steward and Jim Lampley. They are well past their sell by date. Meanwhile Larry Merchant needs a 50 year contract extension. He is hardcore.

[Onix]

Get rid of Harold Lederman!!

He is obviously an in house judge but damn!! The guy is so jaded in his scoring its ridiculous.

The most annoying thing about his scoring is his inconsistent reasoning about why he gives fighters rounds.


For example:

• Marquez Vs. Pacquiao - Lederman explaining his scores in the mid rounds saying that when a punch count is equal (it was right after a round that they both landed 10 punches) you have to give the round to the more aggressive fighter (Manny) He said it several times about how JMM's style is not appreciated by judges who like himself favor the agressive agressor.

Ok Harold we will accept that reasoning, a few weeks later we have exibit B

• Cotto VS Margarito -Mid rounds Lederman yells for joy saying "to all the boxing purists who ask if a fighter can win a fight while running away I say the answer is yes!!"

Fire Lederman!!

[fightscorecollector]

The original poster made an excellent point regarding HBO. Head of to new shores. It great when they are here in the UK etc but go to places like Japan , Australia or even South America.

Same could be said of Showtime.

[Gandalf]

I agree about Lederman, he is way off all too often these days. "Jim, I gotta tell ya..."....that you are showing signs of dementia? What are you trying to tell us Harold because none of us are seeing what you are seeing anymore.

[Gandalf]

I prefer Showtime a lot more than HBO. HBO these days has become somewhat irritating. By contrast I really like Bernstein, Tarver and Gray.

For me Larry Merchant is the only one left at HBO that I genuinely enjoy listening to. Lampley has become too noisy, babbles and is all ego and Manny Steward seems to be getting senile. Lederman is all over the place with his scoring unless it is a really obvious fight.

HBO is flashier, but it's more style over content.

[fightscorecollector]

I prefer Showtime a lot more than HBO. HBO these days has become somewhat irritating. By contrast I really like Bernstein, Tarver and Gray.

For me Larry Merchant is the only one left at HBO that I genuinely enjoy listening to. Lampley has become too noisy, babbles and is all ego and Manny Steward seems to be getting senile. Lederman is all over the place with his scoring unless it is a really obvious fight.

HBO is flashier, but it's more style over content.

Merchant is the best on HBO , i like you believe that Bernstein , Tarver and Gray do an excellent job , pity we cant have a bernstein and merchant partnership

[Hulk]

Get rid of Harold Lederman!!

He is obviously an in house judge but damn!! The guy is so jaded in his scoring its ridiculous.

The most annoying thing about his scoring is his inconsistent reasoning about why he gives fighters rounds.


For example:

• Marquez Vs. Pacquiao - Lederman explaining his scores in the mid rounds saying that when a punch count is equal (it was right after a round that they both landed 10 punches) you have to give the round to the more aggressive fighter (Manny) He said it several times about how JMM's style is not appreciated by judges who like himself favor the agressive agressor.

Ok Harold we will accept that reasoning, a few weeks later we have exibit B

• Cotto VS Margarito -Mid rounds Lederman yells for joy saying "to all the boxing purists who ask if a fighter can win a fight while running away I say the answer is yes!!"

Fire Lederman!!

Harold is bar none the worst judge on TV. He's always been for the house fighter blatently and is just horrid.

The glaring example of this was when he had Panchito Bojado WINNING against Jesse James Leija after Leija schooled him all night. Even the rest of the announcers disagreed with Harold that night.

Its tragic he is fighting cancer right now and I wish him the best, but I really can't stand his judging most nights.

Also Lyle, I think your #5 should be #1. Bad judging and officiating is the worst offender in boxing today. Always has been.

[Rantcatrat]

stop overpaying for fights!!!! HBO has been horrible at that. Guys like Bradley and Berto get paid too much. Neither guy can make money without tv because they aren't live draws.

Showtime would pay about 1/2 as much as HBO does and yet HBO pays way too much.

IF you are pricing fights then why doesn't HBO think about how much Showtime will pay for a fight-and then add a 100,000.

Not pay a fighter 1,000,000 for a fight where Showtime would pay 400,000-500,000. IT IS PURE LUNACY.

You can easily do this as well. The purses for the showtime fights are published by the commissions in many states (I believe). Keep a log of all of those and then you can accurately guess how much Showtime will pay.

Right, don't pay a lot of $ to a fighter unless he is facing a real challenge, which is to say, pay for the fight, not the fighter. Is there any reason why this wouldn't work?

[Rantcatrat]

I think HBO need to get rid of Manny Steward and Jim Lampley. They are well past their sell by date. Meanwhile Larry Merchant needs a 50 year contract extension. He is hardcore.

Get rid of Harold Lederman!!

He is obviously an in house judge but damn!! The guy is so jaded in his scoring its ridiculous.

The most annoying thing about his scoring is his inconsistent reasoning about why he gives fighters rounds.




For example:

• Marquez Vs. Pacquiao - Lederman explaining his scores in the mid rounds saying that when a punch count is equal (it was right after a round that they both landed 10 punches) you have to give the round to the more aggressive fighter (Manny) He said it several times about how JMM's style is not appreciated by judges who like himself favor the agressive agressor.

Ok Harold we will accept that reasoning, a few weeks later we have exibit B

• Cotto VS Margarito -Mid rounds Lederman yells for joy saying "to all the boxing purists who ask if a fighter can win a fight while running away I say the answer is yes!!"

Fire Lederman!!

Switching up the announcers is another way they could improve. What are good examples of good sports announcing that HBO should try to imitate with choices in announcing? Personally, I believe Max Kellerman has grown into being a great announcer. I also still get a kick out of Larry Merchant. How many more years under the sun does he have remaining anyway?

[Althugz]

I remember I always used to get a kick out of HBO commentary. Just felt more authentic for a big fight but their bias is getting real boring, real fast!

Lederman has always been insane with his scoring. For example - Scoring the Oscar De La Hoya vs Molina fight for Molina when it was clearly Oscars fight.

Chavez vs Mayweather gave Chavez the first 2 rounds?? Insanity..and even the Lewis v Akinwade fight I noticed he gave Akinwade one of the first 3 rounds! LOL.

Ok he used to be insane but scoring against DLH was at least neutral. Now HBO's bias is getting boring. The JMM vs Pac fight was insane. Lederman, Lampley and Steward verbally felating Pac for things that aren't happening. It took Kellerman to calm these old folk down by saying "look I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the judges see it the opposite of you guys" (Good call on Kellerman btw - he's always been quite solid in my book)

Larry Merchant comes up with a gem every hour or so but he's like the naughty kid who just pipes up every so often. He needs time to think..a LOT of time.

Replace Steward with Roy Jones..why hasn't this happened yet?? Maybe because he's still active. Tarver as well has been great..charismatic boxers do a great job of explaining what's happening in a fight.

I'd say for the most part HBO could keep things the way they are if they weren't so damn biased! But Lederman is really only there for "ooooookay Jim.." these days

[Diane]

That HBO quits being the Haymon Boxing Organization. I'm sick of Al Haymon's fighters getting overpaid and overhyped.

[Maravilla2012]

I remember I always used to get a kick out of HBO commentary. Just felt more authentic for a big fight but their bias is getting real boring, real fast!

Lederman has always been insane with his scoring. For example - Scoring the Oscar De La Hoya vs Molina fight for Molina when it was clearly Oscars fight.

Chavez vs Mayweather gave Chavez the first 2 rounds?? Insanity..and even the Lewis v Akinwade fight I noticed he gave Akinwade one of the first 3 rounds! LOL.

Ok he used to be insane but scoring against DLH was at least neutral. Now HBO's bias is getting boring. The JMM vs Pac fight was insane. Lederman, Lampley and Steward verbally felating Pac for things that aren't happening. It took Kellerman to calm these old folk down by saying "look I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the judges see it the opposite of you guys" (Good call on Kellerman btw - he's always been quite solid in my book)

Larry Merchant comes up with a gem every hour or so but he's like the naughty kid who just pipes up every so often. He needs time to think..a LOT of time.

Replace Steward with Roy Jones..why hasn't this happened yet?? Maybe because he's still active. Tarver as well has been great..charismatic boxers do a great job of explaining what's happening in a fight.

I'd say for the most part HBO could keep things the way they are if they weren't so damn biased! But Lederman is really only there for "ooooookay Jim.." these days

Jones , Kellerman and Larry should make up the HBO team. Bob Papa isn't all too bad either.

[El Kabong]

I HATE Jim Grey...he's an annoying little shit and thank God James Toney scared the hell out of him

[shza]

I HATE Jim Grey...he's an annoying little shit

Thank god someone here is being sensible. I was about to make the same response. Whereas Larry Merchant can make interviews uncomfortable in a good, aggressive way, Grey makes them uncomfortable in an awkward, cringeworthy way. And the guy has zero charisma; he seems nervous almost all of the time, like he's afraid of what the response to his questions/comments is going to be. I have no idea how he ever got into the sportscasting business -- totally wrong for the job.

I agree with Rantcatrat about Kellerman. I always liked him, but he's really matured and gotten quite good.

I sort of agree with miles about Lampley and Steward. Tarver has definitely surpassed Steward for me. But I don't love Showtime's version of Lampley either -- I can't even remember his name (not Gus Johnson -- the other one; Gus Johnson, btw, is obviously the very worst commentator to ever touch either network (both, in fact!)). Bernstein has always been a favorite of mine though.