What's the deal with Socialism?

[CFH]

CFH, I think you might be inclined to like someone like Zapata, whom was assassinated before he was corrupted by power.

As for the "level playing field", I suggest removing government intervention as much as possible and allowing people to earn for themselves with no boost from Uncle Sam. I would also suggest a simplified tax code for individuals and corporations to limit people gaming the system and to make it easier for individuals. I would also allow for foreign held funds of American corporations to be brought back to the United States without heavy taxation.

The bottom line, if the government is going to help the poor and the wealthy then no wonder the middle class is disappearing.

The problem with that perspective (IMO of course) is that people don't all start out on a level playing field.

There are social and structural inequalities built into our cultures and our systems of government which privilege certain groups of people.
A healthy white male from a middle class background has a much better chance of achieving 'success' (by which I mean financial security, good health, social inclusion, longevity, freedom from persecution, and so on) than does a woman, a visible minority, someone with mental health problems, an immigrant etc. This person has done nothing to earn this privilege, it is simply accorded to them from birth because of their ascribed social identity. I believe that the government should have a primary role in address this problem.

Your vision of a 'level playing field' in which nothing is done to address this fundamental difference results in the perpetuation of a system which is inherently biased and unequal. It preserves privilege and leads to continued marginalization and oppression.

I'm not saying we need to kill the property-owners and seize their land, but what I am saying is that we need a system that ensures that no one is left behind and that everyone, regardless of who they are or where they come from, has a chance to succeed.

[generalbulldog]

CFH, I think you might be inclined to like someone like Zapata, whom was assassinated before he was corrupted by power.

As for the "level playing field", I suggest removing government intervention as much as possible and allowing people to earn for themselves with no boost from Uncle Sam. I would also suggest a simplified tax code for individuals and corporations to limit people gaming the system and to make it easier for individuals. I would also allow for foreign held funds of American corporations to be brought back to the United States without heavy taxation.

The bottom line, if the government is going to help the poor and the wealthy then no wonder the middle class is disappearing.

The problem with that perspective (IMO of course) is that people don't all start out on a level playing field.

There are social and structural inequalities built into our cultures and our systems of government which privilege certain groups of people.
A healthy white male from a middle class background has a much better chance of achieving 'success' (by which I mean financial security, good health, social inclusion, longevity, freedom from persecution, and so on) than does a woman, a visible minority, someone with mental health problems, an immigrant etc. This person has done nothing to earn this privilege, it is simply accorded to them from birth because of their ascribed social identity. I believe that the government should have a primary role in address this problem.

Your vision of a 'level playing field' in which nothing is done to address this fundamental difference results in the perpetuation of a system which is inherently biased and unequal. It preserves privilege and leads to continued marginalization and oppression.

I'm not saying we need to kill the property-owners and seize their land, but what I am saying is that we need a system that ensures that no one is left behind and that everyone, regardless of who they are or where they come from, has a chance to succeed.

In America there is much more of a meritocracy if one tries to achieve it. Let's be honest now, and this is politically incorrect to say, but certain groups advance much faster and farther than others in a merit based society because of things like work ethic and a culture of education that is ingrained in that group. Take the Jews for example, a group of people discriminated and oppressed for centuries in every nation they've been in. But yet they've managed to rise up and attend elite universities in whatever nation they reside in and manage to be bankers, lawyers, doctors, engineers, etc. At the start of the 20th century these Jews from the ghettos of America were able to get into the elite universities of America such as Harvard, Yale, Princeton and others because of what? Their work ethic and a culture that prides itself on scholarly activities. Another group that manages to rise up the socio-economic ladder just like the Jews are Asians primarily of the Confucian culture. So why is it that other groups like Native Americans, blacks, Hispanics can't do what these 2 groups do? Take a look into the culture and the work ethic. Insensitive and politically incorrect to say? It's all true. Culture heavily defines us.

Max Weber a German sociologist and a contemporary of Marx came up with this theory that culture defines us heavily, he was wrong about one thing though, he believed that the Protestant work ethic was superior to others. But I would have to say in terms of competitiveness and a scholarly culture it takes a back seat to the culture of the Jews and Asians from Confucian culture.

And another thing about leveling the field. There will always be the haves and have nots and I think it's ridiculous to try to level this. Yes some people may be born into privilege but then there are others that work their ass off in life. Like the Jews and Asians. There is equality of opportunity but not equality of results was something my old sociologist professor once said when talking about America's system.

In fact if I'm not mistaken, most countries that are heavily socialist and left wing have never had a Abraham Lincoln or Bill Clinton meaning individuals that were born into the shit gutter and rose up to be the most powerful individual of their nation. I find it ironic that many of these socialist nations likes to take a shot at America and proclaim how superior their systems of leveling the field is with scores of opportunities when their nations leaders/politicians are mainly from the wealthy, elite, and privilege class. And a Clinton or Lincoln would have almost zero shot at being president/prime minister/head of state because of the class they were born into if they were born into those societies.

[Andre]

Probably the best so far..

Switzerland features a system of government not seen in any other nation: direct representation, sometimes called half-direct democracy (this may be arguable, because theoretically, the Sovereign of Switzerland is actually its entire electorate). Referendums on the most important laws have been used since the 1848 constitution.
Amendments of the Federal Constitution of Switzerland, the joining of international organizations or changes to federal laws that have no foundation in the constitution but if in force for more than one year must be approved by the majority of both the people and the cantons, a (double majority).
Any citizen may challenge a law that has been passed by parliament. If that person is able to gather 50,000 signatures against the law within 100 days, a national vote has to be scheduled where voters decide by a simple majority of the voters whether to accept or reject the law.
Also, any citizen may seek a decision on an amendment they want to make to the constitution. For such an amendment initiative to be organised, the signatures of 100,000 voters must be collected within 18 months. Such a popular initiative is formulated as a precise new text (general proposal initiatives have been canceled in 2009 [1]) whose wording can no longer be changed by parliament and the government. After a successful signature gathering, the federal council may create a counterproposal to the proposed amendment and put it to vote on the same day as the original proposal. Such counter-proposals are usually a compromise between the status quo and the wording of the initiative. Voters will decide in a national vote whether to accept the initiative amendment, the counter proposal put forward by the government if any, or both. If both are accepted, one has to additionally signal a preference. Initiatives (that are of constitutional level) have to be accepted by a double majority of both the popular votes and a majority of the cantons, while counter-proposals may be of legislative level and hence require only simple majority.

[killersheep]

I love how people that sit in front of a computer all day for work like to talk about the work ethic of others. It's absolutely ridiculous.

[El Kabong]

I love how people that sit in front of a computer all day for work like to talk about the work ethic of others. It's absolutely ridiculous.

.........Lazy bastard

[Gandalf]

I'm not sure that Koreans work all that hard. In terms of productivity they are well down on the OECD lists. They do work long hours and have short vacations, but in work it is my perception that they are quite lazy. In the bank the other day for example, there were five people on the counter sitting idle. 3 more senior types behind (with one of them playing with his phone) and a total of 3 customers including me and my wife. Hardly overrun with work at all. You see it everywhere in Korea. Far more people working than you need and many idling about making coffee. I'm not knocking it as it provides jobs, but Korean's are hardly bastions of efficiency nor productivity.

As for the whole socialist argument, that one takes up too much time for me to post about, so I will politely abstain for a couple of days and I will try to give a proper response then. It's the last day of the year and I'm going to watch to watch the boxing and then try and stay away from the computer until the New Year. So best wishes to you all and I hope you all manage to have a good evening and stay out of trouble!