Marquez-Naz? Why did Marquez blatantly refuse to fight Naz? Fact.

[AdamGB]

Whooomp... where is he?

[Fenster]

Come on facster, don't get upsey and take your ball home!

I hate Floyd Mayweather... Doesn't mean I thought Hatton stood a chance or that I think Pac will beat him.

Tell me, who were the three most dominant champs who's reign hamed ended?

Upset?

You are interpreting some weird things here AdamGB. I haven't even expressed an opinion yet. I have simply provided statistical data. It's not my fault if the stats and facts show things you don't like.

I don't love or hate any fighter. I don't know any personally. I wanted Hatton to beat Floyd. I backed Floyd to KO him. Emotion has no place in my reasoning.

I've already told you the champions Naz beat - WBO, WBC, IBF and WBA/LINEAL champion. All these fighters were OBVIOUSLY among the worlds best featherweights when Naz beat them. That's why Naz became a universally recognised P4P fighter. This is not opinion. It is pure 100% verifiable fact. Fact.

[Fenster]

Whooomp... where is he?

here all night, bud

whoomp there it is!

[AdamGB]

Didn't Hamed say that right after making a woefully innacurate statement about KOing Barrera?

Suitable catch phrase for you then :P

I'm still waiting for Naz's best three wins please.

Again the facts remain that 3 people stronger and/or better than Hamed put Marquez down, none kept him there and only one got a (points) win, and that Hamed only fought one guy in JMM's league (coincidently a tough, skilled counterer like JMM) and barely won a single round.

[Master]

The way I see it Naz was showing signs of vulnerability, he got hurt by Augie Sanchez, so I believe he would have lost to JMM. This is a similar situation to Paul Hodkinson who was a good fighter but had to face Goyo Vargas at the time. A young, hot, seasoned, Mexican fighter who would have beaten Naz at that time.

Although the earlier version of Naz that beat Tom Johnson would have beaten everyone.

[Fenster]

You think Marquez would beat Naz? Fine. You're entitled to your opinion.

Your point about better/stronger fighters knocking Marquez down is irrelevant.

None of those guys have a 100% KO record after flooring any featherweight they've faced. We're dealing with a 1999/2000 Marquez. The one that was beat by Norwood. Does anyone rate Norwood above the current Marquez? No. But back then Marquez was beneath him.

Does Naz awe-inspiring 100% KO record mean he would have beat Marquez? No. It just shows statistically fighters that go down against Naz get knocked out. That's all I've said.

Being sensationally knocked unconcious inside two rounds against Naz would not have prevented Marquez from becoming a great. Trust me.

[AdamGB]

I know, you said that 5248 times already.
A 2nd shut out to only the 2nd real fighter hamed had faced WOULD have hurt.
You're looking at it introverted, KOind 2nd and 3rd tier fighters do not give relevant stats for the likes of Marquez.

How many times do we have to repeat one anothet until you get bored of trolling or pull your fingers out of your ears?

I can see why you won't go in to detail about the best 3 hamed beat.

[Fenster]

AdamGB.. Pay attention.

Naz was UNBEATEN in 1999/2000 when Marquez dodged him. How could Naz suffer a 2nd loss if he was unbeaten? Marquez wasn't a "world" champion. He wasn't a "great." He wasn't a "name." He was just a contender.

This thread isn't about Naz career. Start a new one if you want to discuss that. If you think he was rubbish that's fine by me.

I merely asked a simple question - Why did Marquez refuse to fight Naz even though everything was in his favour? Even if you consider a stunning KO loss inside one round was probable, it still wouldn't have stopped him from being a great.

Marquez had NOTHING to lose. Lots of boxing-nerds believe Naz was an overrated showman that fought a bunch of weak fighters. Fair enough.

So why was Marquez so worried about Naz? That's all i'm trying to establish. Fact.

[ruthless rocco]

i think everyone's got a bit off topic here....

the question is why did marquez blatantly refuse to fight naz.

aside from the fact that that sentence makes no sense. i think fenster is posing the question to the wrong people.

fenster, you need to ask marquez that question. i think only he blatantly knows the answer to your question. i'm sure he'd be happy to blatantly answer it as well. maybe with a punch to you mouth.

as for the all speculating who would win... why don't wee get them in the ring before the years end. i'm sure marquez vs naz in december as marquez' farewell fight would be great to watch.

my money's on marquez.

[Saddo]

why don't wee get them in the ring before the years end. i'm sure marquez vs naz in december as marquez' farewell fight would be great to watch.

my money's on marquez.

i'm not so sure I mean marquez would be giving Naz a massive weight advantage

Naz does still keep his hand in thou so he would be no pushover in fact only just last week he done an exhibition bout with Hatton

[Andre]

Naz was just a showman that beat lower calibre fighters who were the LINEAL featherweight champion, the WBC champion, WBA champion and WBO champion.

Naz OWNED an entire division.

Lets all IGNORE the facts because we hate the Naz fella. Hilarious. Serioulsy hilarious. With a capital fact. Fact.

I agree with you here. The fact that Naz beat straight pure boxers with unorthodox angles by being strong legged and hip flexible; hits boxing purists much harder right in their believe zone so they shunned ex champs he beat fair and square. If pure boxing skill always wins as the old school love to believe then you'd think one of them could of done the job way before Barrera.

Whats worse is he got away with it by getting into their heads first and worse still was he was onside with Islam at a very bad time when Islam was split by fundamentalist actions.

The other top men of that period Barrera, Morrales and the one purist up commer ignored by them both for a very long time (JMM): Were all as much concentrating on being the top Featherweight of Mexico that is where their pride really was rooted, more than being world champ which usually just happened to come along with being Mexicos best Feather. Thats why I think Marquez wanted either of these two before Naz. Its Mexican pride first, fuck the world, the top Mexicans from the lighter weights got that crown back then anyway.

[AdamGB]

AdamGB.. Pay attention.

Naz was UNBEATEN in 1999/2000 when Marquez dodged him. How could Naz suffer a 2nd loss if he was unbeaten? Marquez wasn't a "world" champion. He wasn't a "great." He wasn't a "name." He was just a contender.

You're right actually, if he fought JMM before Barrera then there wouldn't be a 2nd loss, he'd have quit boxing before he ever fought Barrera

This thread isn't about Naz career. Start a new one if you want to discuss that. If you think he was rubbish that's fine by me.

Thank you. I'll make that thread, I'll call it 'fact/opinion, discuss'

I merely asked a simple question - Why did Marquez refuse to fight Naz even though everything was in his favor? Even if you consider a stunning KO loss inside one round was probable, it still wouldn't have stopped him from being a great.


He wanted more time to prepare than he was given? He took boxing and preparation for big fights quite seriously I guess? (Hamed could have learned something from the guy...). Who knows, boxing is never that simple. Fights get made, unmade and remade all the time. Shame that Barrera broke Hamed's weak heart and he didn't hang around long enough for JMM to fight him.

Marquez had NOTHING to lose. Lots of boxing-nerds believe Naz was an overrated showman that fought a bunch of weak fighters. Fair enough.

Not just boxing nerds (as with your 'brutal KO in round X' patter your attempt at kidology is weak), just about every fucker since the Barrera humiliation and most before it... lots of people believed that 'this little goblin fella' had only beaten relatively weak opposition. The press saw it as the first real opponent Hamed could truly prove himself against and had been critising his weak opposition for years.

Watch any of the prefight talk for just a small taste.

So why was Marquez so worried about Naz? That's all I'm trying to establish. Fact.
Lets pretend he was... as I've said. Who cares? hamed has shown he wasn't half as good as JMM, he doesn't hold a win over JMM, he will never be revered as JMM is.

Will it make you happy if I say it was down to the Goblin King's inhuman power? Should I send Hamed a medal?

Whatever reason they didn't fight AT THAT MOMENT IN time I'm pretty sure that if Hamed had had the heart to say in boxing that JMM would have gladly obliged. He's faced several fighters better than Hamed ever was.

p.s. I'm sure a 2nd humiliating shut out loss would have stopped Hamed being a great even more than one did. Fact

[AdamGB]

Naz was just a showman that beat lower calibre fighters who were the LINEAL featherweight champion, the WBC champion, WBA champion and WBO champion.

Naz OWNED an entire division.

Lets all IGNORE the facts because we hate the Naz fella. Hilarious. Serioulsy hilarious. With a capital fact. Fact.

I agree with you here. The fact that Naz beat straight pure boxers with unorthodox angles by being strong legged and hip flexible; hits boxing purists much harder right in their believe zone so they shunned ex champs he beat fair and square. If pure boxing skill always wins as the old school love to believe then you'd think one of them could of done the job way before Barrera.

Whats worse is he got away with it by getting into their heads first and worse still was he was onside with Islam at a very bad time when Islam was split by fundamentalist actions.

The other top men of that period Barrera, Morrales and the one purist up commer ignored by them both for a very long time (JMM): Were all as much concentrating on being the top Featherweight of Mexico that is where their pride really was rooted, more than being world champ which usually just happened to come along with being Mexicos best Feather. Thats why I think Marquez wanted either of these two before Naz. Its Mexican pride first, fuck the world, the top Mexicans from the lighter weights got that crown back then anyway.

So he wanted the prestige of beating real, hard fighters? Fact.

Discuss

Andre I'd agree with you about his style upsetting boxing purists, but it didn't hurt Roy Jones Jr.

Because at least backed some of it up.

If Hamed had a James Toney, or a Hopkins, or a title 50 pounds from his starting weight then he'd get more acclaim.

He will never get the praise some people want him to be given, because trinkets aside he never beat the calibre of fighterthat would warrent his talk or the accolades fanboys want him given.

[Mars_ax]

Part of being a great champion is overcoming adversity. Ali for example coming back from a devastating loss to Frazier in their 1st fight to KO George Foreman and avenge the loss to Frazier. Ray Leonard coming back from his loss to Duran, clowning him in the rematch, et al.

If Hamed would have come back and defeated Barrera in a rematch and finished cleaning up the featherweight division we could have called him great. But as it is, he put his tail between his legs and ran into retirement, no class, no heart, no champion, just a straight up bitch.

[Andre]

Naz was just a showman that beat lower calibre fighters who were the LINEAL featherweight champion, the WBC champion, WBA champion and WBO champion.

Naz OWNED an entire division.

Lets all IGNORE the facts because we hate the Naz fella. Hilarious. Serioulsy hilarious. With a capital fact. Fact.

I agree with you here. The fact that Naz beat straight pure boxers with unorthodox angles by being strong legged and hip flexible; hits boxing purists much harder right in their believe zone so they shunned ex champs he beat fair and square. If pure boxing skill always wins as the old school love to believe then you'd think one of them could of done the job way before Barrera.

Whats worse is he got away with it by getting into their heads first and worse still was he was onside with Islam at a very bad time when Islam was split by fundamentalist actions.

The other top men of that period Barrera, Morrales and the one purist up commer ignored by them both for a very long time (JMM): Were all as much concentrating on being the top Featherweight of Mexico that is where their pride really was rooted, more than being world champ which usually just happened to come along with being Mexicos best Feather. Thats why I think Marquez wanted either of these two before Naz. Its Mexican pride first, fuck the world, the top Mexicans from the lighter weights got that crown back then anyway.

So he wanted the prestige of beating real, hard fighters? Fact.

Discuss

Andre I'd agree with you about his style upsetting boxing purists, but it didn't hurt Roy Jones Jr.

Because at least backed some of it up.

If Hamed had a James Toney, or a Hopkins, or a title 50 pounds from his starting weight then he'd get more acclaim.

He will never get the praise some people want him to be given, because trinkets aside he never beat the calibre of fighterthat would warrent his talk or the accolades fanboys want him given.

Marquez did mate not Hamed. I was covering the two scenarios in the post.
Did Marquez duck him? I think so, but not from fear of Naz , I think he just wanted Mexican fights and Mexican recognition as being the best while two greats were there doing just that.

So I think Marquez always wanted Barrera or Morrales and recognition from Mexicans first and foremost.

On the other thing, there were some way above average or just decent boxers on Naz s' record. They had no answers once his power got tasted or once they got mentally rattled which ever way around it occurred; they wouldnt hold up and holes appeared in their defenses.

It took an all time great with strong faith in his own pure boxing skill to time coming out from behind great defence and deal out what should of come along time before onto Naz.

Full credit to Barrera, I think Marquez would have done the same. Morrales could get a bit more emotionally involved, so may have been led into a war and that could be dangerous cause Naz was very fucking dangerous and risky business whoever you are.