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Thread: What's next for Haye

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  1. #76
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    Default Re: What's next for Haye

    Quote Originally Posted by rjj tszyu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rantcatrat View Post
    Is it me or are Haye and Khan quite comparable? Both British, both two division champions, both fast, quality athletes with good boxing skills, and both lack quality chins. Haye and Khan were each starched by much lesser boxers, Haye by Carl Thompson as a cruiserweight, Khan by Breides Prescott as a lightweight.

    Looking at the comparison, Haye may have the edge over Khan for two reasons: (1) he hides his primary deficiency better than Khan and (2) he has one-punch knockout power. With regard to hiding his deficiency, it's not entirely proven because Haye hasn't faced the equivalent of Danny Garcia as a heavyweight: a good, undefeated boxer who can crack a bit. I would probably put Povetkin in that group. I can't recall when it was, maybe in the beginning of the third round, but I believe Chisora connected once well against Haye, and Haye visibly reacted to it, and Chisora is no puncher. With Wlad, Wlad is sufficiently disciplined that he never gave Haye an opportunity to touch him without Haye exposing himself, and Haye couldn't risk getting touched because of his chin deficiency. A lot will be told about Haye when we see if he can handle a punch of a heavyweight. I'm not sure Haye will give us the chance to see it though, unless it is against Vitali. Even Vitali, at 40, however, doesn't have one-punch knockout power. However, he may have enough to cause Haye to fight safe the whole fight.

    With regard to his power, no one can deny Haye has big punching power that Khan just doesn't possess. Haye has starched too many big men for that. It's got to be in the top ten of power currently. The punching power also gives Haye another device to mask his chin deficiency.
    Haye took decent shots off Wladimir. Not many but he definitely took them. I think his chin is actually a little underrated. The shot Chisora hit him with about 10 seconds after the bell to end the 3rd that caught Haye completely going the wrong way looked a good shot and Haye just smiled and walked back to the corner. He got hit with much lesser shots at CW that floored him. I think the weight draining caused a lot of his problems back in the day. Not saying Haye has the punch resistance of Evander all of a sudden I just think he takes a better shot than some on here think.

    Oh yeah and Khan is only a 1 weight champ too.

    RJJ, you feel Haye was "weight-drained" at cruiserweight? He seems to have the body build that fits a good sized cruiserweight or small heavyweight, but I wouldn't characterize him as "weight-drained" in the sense of the word we usually use to describe fighters in other divisions.

    Also, you attribute Haye's "lesser chin" at CW than at HW to his weight? Again, I'm at a loss here, because to me, chin resistance has always been independent of weight. Matter of fact, it would seem that if anything his punch resistance would go down at HW, where bigger guys are throwing a lot harder punches.

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    Default Re: What's next for Haye

    haye battered him a lot better than vitali did tho
    Michalkewski battered griffin and Thadzi better than james toney!! Are we to belive toney would not stand a chance vs DM? Anyway...

    Vitali was 65% at best in that fight. Also let's not forget for a haye fight he would be seriously motivated! He hate's him....

    A fit VK has a granite chin, iron mentality and rarely gets outboxed! Can't say the same for haye.

    Let's be honest, the klitschko brothers are far better than those two london clowns! Anyone noticed how haye has not yet mentioned wlad?? He think's vitali is ripe for the taking and know's deep down he is not on wlad's level so doesn't even entertain the idea of a rematch!!

    The haye/chisora fight wasn't even that spectacular anyway, it was mainly haye hugging and running until the finish....
    Last edited by THE PHILOSOPHER; 07-16-2012 at 03:47 PM.

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    Default Re: What's next for Haye

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rjj tszyu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rantcatrat View Post
    Is it me or are Haye and Khan quite comparable? Both British, both two division champions, both fast, quality athletes with good boxing skills, and both lack quality chins. Haye and Khan were each starched by much lesser boxers, Haye by Carl Thompson as a cruiserweight, Khan by Breides Prescott as a lightweight.

    Looking at the comparison, Haye may have the edge over Khan for two reasons: (1) he hides his primary deficiency better than Khan and (2) he has one-punch knockout power. With regard to hiding his deficiency, it's not entirely proven because Haye hasn't faced the equivalent of Danny Garcia as a heavyweight: a good, undefeated boxer who can crack a bit. I would probably put Povetkin in that group. I can't recall when it was, maybe in the beginning of the third round, but I believe Chisora connected once well against Haye, and Haye visibly reacted to it, and Chisora is no puncher. With Wlad, Wlad is sufficiently disciplined that he never gave Haye an opportunity to touch him without Haye exposing himself, and Haye couldn't risk getting touched because of his chin deficiency. A lot will be told about Haye when we see if he can handle a punch of a heavyweight. I'm not sure Haye will give us the chance to see it though, unless it is against Vitali. Even Vitali, at 40, however, doesn't have one-punch knockout power. However, he may have enough to cause Haye to fight safe the whole fight.

    With regard to his power, no one can deny Haye has big punching power that Khan just doesn't possess. Haye has starched too many big men for that. It's got to be in the top ten of power currently. The punching power also gives Haye another device to mask his chin deficiency.
    Haye took decent shots off Wladimir. Not many but he definitely took them. I think his chin is actually a little underrated. The shot Chisora hit him with about 10 seconds after the bell to end the 3rd that caught Haye completely going the wrong way looked a good shot and Haye just smiled and walked back to the corner. He got hit with much lesser shots at CW that floored him. I think the weight draining caused a lot of his problems back in the day. Not saying Haye has the punch resistance of Evander all of a sudden I just think he takes a better shot than some on here think.

    Oh yeah and Khan is only a 1 weight champ too.

    RJJ, you feel Haye was "weight-drained" at cruiserweight? He seems to have the body build that fits a good sized cruiserweight or small heavyweight, but I wouldn't characterize him as "weight-drained" in the sense of the word we usually use to describe fighters in other divisions.

    Also, you attribute Haye's "lesser chin" at CW than at HW to his weight? Again, I'm at a loss here, because to me, chin resistance has always been independent of weight. Matter of fact, it would seem that if anything his punch resistance would go down at HW, where bigger guys are throwing a lot harder punches.
    David has said in the past that he struggled to make the CW limit. And yes, draining down in weight can have an adverse effect on punch resistence. Caused by dehydration. Look it up.
    Last edited by Mega; 07-16-2012 at 03:38 PM.

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    Default Re: What's next for Haye

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rjj tszyu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rantcatrat View Post
    Is it me or are Haye and Khan quite comparable? Both British, both two division champions, both fast, quality athletes with good boxing skills, and both lack quality chins. Haye and Khan were each starched by much lesser boxers, Haye by Carl Thompson as a cruiserweight, Khan by Breides Prescott as a lightweight.

    Looking at the comparison, Haye may have the edge over Khan for two reasons: (1) he hides his primary deficiency better than Khan and (2) he has one-punch knockout power. With regard to hiding his deficiency, it's not entirely proven because Haye hasn't faced the equivalent of Danny Garcia as a heavyweight: a good, undefeated boxer who can crack a bit. I would probably put Povetkin in that group. I can't recall when it was, maybe in the beginning of the third round, but I believe Chisora connected once well against Haye, and Haye visibly reacted to it, and Chisora is no puncher. With Wlad, Wlad is sufficiently disciplined that he never gave Haye an opportunity to touch him without Haye exposing himself, and Haye couldn't risk getting touched because of his chin deficiency. A lot will be told about Haye when we see if he can handle a punch of a heavyweight. I'm not sure Haye will give us the chance to see it though, unless it is against Vitali. Even Vitali, at 40, however, doesn't have one-punch knockout power. However, he may have enough to cause Haye to fight safe the whole fight.

    With regard to his power, no one can deny Haye has big punching power that Khan just doesn't possess. Haye has starched too many big men for that. It's got to be in the top ten of power currently. The punching power also gives Haye another device to mask his chin deficiency.
    Haye took decent shots off Wladimir. Not many but he definitely took them. I think his chin is actually a little underrated. The shot Chisora hit him with about 10 seconds after the bell to end the 3rd that caught Haye completely going the wrong way looked a good shot and Haye just smiled and walked back to the corner. He got hit with much lesser shots at CW that floored him. I think the weight draining caused a lot of his problems back in the day. Not saying Haye has the punch resistance of Evander all of a sudden I just think he takes a better shot than some on here think.

    Oh yeah and Khan is only a 1 weight champ too.

    RJJ, you feel Haye was "weight-drained" at cruiserweight? He seems to have the body build that fits a good sized cruiserweight or small heavyweight, but I wouldn't characterize him as "weight-drained" in the sense of the word we usually use to describe fighters in other divisions.

    Also, you attribute Haye's "lesser chin" at CW than at HW to his weight? Again, I'm at a loss here, because to me, chin resistance has always been independent of weight. Matter of fact, it would seem that if anything his punch resistance would go down at HW, where bigger guys are throwing a lot harder punches.
    Remember though when he fought Mock (the fight in which he was declared chinny) the CW limit was still 190 and against Thompson only a blind man would say that was down to his chin and not the fact he blew himself out which was down to inexperience. I think Haye has the body of a 210-215 fighter.

    Making weight can weaken you, that is without question. Or do you actually think Mock hits harder than Wlad?

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    Default Re: What's next for Haye

    Quote Originally Posted by Mega View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rjj tszyu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rantcatrat View Post
    Is it me or are Haye and Khan quite comparable? Both British, both two division champions, both fast, quality athletes with good boxing skills, and both lack quality chins. Haye and Khan were each starched by much lesser boxers, Haye by Carl Thompson as a cruiserweight, Khan by Breides Prescott as a lightweight.

    Looking at the comparison, Haye may have the edge over Khan for two reasons: (1) he hides his primary deficiency better than Khan and (2) he has one-punch knockout power. With regard to hiding his deficiency, it's not entirely proven because Haye hasn't faced the equivalent of Danny Garcia as a heavyweight: a good, undefeated boxer who can crack a bit. I would probably put Povetkin in that group. I can't recall when it was, maybe in the beginning of the third round, but I believe Chisora connected once well against Haye, and Haye visibly reacted to it, and Chisora is no puncher. With Wlad, Wlad is sufficiently disciplined that he never gave Haye an opportunity to touch him without Haye exposing himself, and Haye couldn't risk getting touched because of his chin deficiency. A lot will be told about Haye when we see if he can handle a punch of a heavyweight. I'm not sure Haye will give us the chance to see it though, unless it is against Vitali. Even Vitali, at 40, however, doesn't have one-punch knockout power. However, he may have enough to cause Haye to fight safe the whole fight.

    With regard to his power, no one can deny Haye has big punching power that Khan just doesn't possess. Haye has starched too many big men for that. It's got to be in the top ten of power currently. The punching power also gives Haye another device to mask his chin deficiency.
    Haye took decent shots off Wladimir. Not many but he definitely took them. I think his chin is actually a little underrated. The shot Chisora hit him with about 10 seconds after the bell to end the 3rd that caught Haye completely going the wrong way looked a good shot and Haye just smiled and walked back to the corner. He got hit with much lesser shots at CW that floored him. I think the weight draining caused a lot of his problems back in the day. Not saying Haye has the punch resistance of Evander all of a sudden I just think he takes a better shot than some on here think.

    Oh yeah and Khan is only a 1 weight champ too.

    RJJ, you feel Haye was "weight-drained" at cruiserweight? He seems to have the body build that fits a good sized cruiserweight or small heavyweight, but I wouldn't characterize him as "weight-drained" in the sense of the word we usually use to describe fighters in other divisions.

    Also, you attribute Haye's "lesser chin" at CW than at HW to his weight? Again, I'm at a loss here, because to me, chin resistance has always been independent of weight. Matter of fact, it would seem that if anything his punch resistance would go down at HW, where bigger guys are throwing a lot harder punches.
    David has said in the past that he struggled to make the CW limit, and yes, draining down in weight can have an adverse effect on punch resistence caused by dehydration. Look it up.

    That doesn't add up as to why he would take a better punch at HW than at CW. The reality of it is, he hasn't really been tagged with a good shot at HW yet, whereas he very likely did get hit with some solid shots as a CW, where I'm sure he took a lot more chances.

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    Default Re: What's next for Haye

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mega View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rjj tszyu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rantcatrat View Post
    Is it me or are Haye and Khan quite comparable? Both British, both two division champions, both fast, quality athletes with good boxing skills, and both lack quality chins. Haye and Khan were each starched by much lesser boxers, Haye by Carl Thompson as a cruiserweight, Khan by Breides Prescott as a lightweight.

    Looking at the comparison, Haye may have the edge over Khan for two reasons: (1) he hides his primary deficiency better than Khan and (2) he has one-punch knockout power. With regard to hiding his deficiency, it's not entirely proven because Haye hasn't faced the equivalent of Danny Garcia as a heavyweight: a good, undefeated boxer who can crack a bit. I would probably put Povetkin in that group. I can't recall when it was, maybe in the beginning of the third round, but I believe Chisora connected once well against Haye, and Haye visibly reacted to it, and Chisora is no puncher. With Wlad, Wlad is sufficiently disciplined that he never gave Haye an opportunity to touch him without Haye exposing himself, and Haye couldn't risk getting touched because of his chin deficiency. A lot will be told about Haye when we see if he can handle a punch of a heavyweight. I'm not sure Haye will give us the chance to see it though, unless it is against Vitali. Even Vitali, at 40, however, doesn't have one-punch knockout power. However, he may have enough to cause Haye to fight safe the whole fight.

    With regard to his power, no one can deny Haye has big punching power that Khan just doesn't possess. Haye has starched too many big men for that. It's got to be in the top ten of power currently. The punching power also gives Haye another device to mask his chin deficiency.
    Haye took decent shots off Wladimir. Not many but he definitely took them. I think his chin is actually a little underrated. The shot Chisora hit him with about 10 seconds after the bell to end the 3rd that caught Haye completely going the wrong way looked a good shot and Haye just smiled and walked back to the corner. He got hit with much lesser shots at CW that floored him. I think the weight draining caused a lot of his problems back in the day. Not saying Haye has the punch resistance of Evander all of a sudden I just think he takes a better shot than some on here think.

    Oh yeah and Khan is only a 1 weight champ too.

    RJJ, you feel Haye was "weight-drained" at cruiserweight? He seems to have the body build that fits a good sized cruiserweight or small heavyweight, but I wouldn't characterize him as "weight-drained" in the sense of the word we usually use to describe fighters in other divisions.

    Also, you attribute Haye's "lesser chin" at CW than at HW to his weight? Again, I'm at a loss here, because to me, chin resistance has always been independent of weight. Matter of fact, it would seem that if anything his punch resistance would go down at HW, where bigger guys are throwing a lot harder punches.
    David has said in the past that he struggled to make the CW limit, and yes, draining down in weight can have an adverse effect on punch resistence caused by dehydration. Look it up.

    That doesn't add up as to why he would take a better punch at HW than at CW. The reality of it is, he hasn't really been tagged with a good shot at HW yet, whereas he very likely did get hit with some solid shots as a CW, where I'm sure he took a lot more chances.

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    Default Re: What's next for Haye

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mega View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rjj tszyu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rantcatrat View Post
    Is it me or are Haye and Khan quite comparable? Both British, both two division champions, both fast, quality athletes with good boxing skills, and both lack quality chins. Haye and Khan were each starched by much lesser boxers, Haye by Carl Thompson as a cruiserweight, Khan by Breides Prescott as a lightweight.

    Looking at the comparison, Haye may have the edge over Khan for two reasons: (1) he hides his primary deficiency better than Khan and (2) he has one-punch knockout power. With regard to hiding his deficiency, it's not entirely proven because Haye hasn't faced the equivalent of Danny Garcia as a heavyweight: a good, undefeated boxer who can crack a bit. I would probably put Povetkin in that group. I can't recall when it was, maybe in the beginning of the third round, but I believe Chisora connected once well against Haye, and Haye visibly reacted to it, and Chisora is no puncher. With Wlad, Wlad is sufficiently disciplined that he never gave Haye an opportunity to touch him without Haye exposing himself, and Haye couldn't risk getting touched because of his chin deficiency. A lot will be told about Haye when we see if he can handle a punch of a heavyweight. I'm not sure Haye will give us the chance to see it though, unless it is against Vitali. Even Vitali, at 40, however, doesn't have one-punch knockout power. However, he may have enough to cause Haye to fight safe the whole fight.

    With regard to his power, no one can deny Haye has big punching power that Khan just doesn't possess. Haye has starched too many big men for that. It's got to be in the top ten of power currently. The punching power also gives Haye another device to mask his chin deficiency.
    Haye took decent shots off Wladimir. Not many but he definitely took them. I think his chin is actually a little underrated. The shot Chisora hit him with about 10 seconds after the bell to end the 3rd that caught Haye completely going the wrong way looked a good shot and Haye just smiled and walked back to the corner. He got hit with much lesser shots at CW that floored him. I think the weight draining caused a lot of his problems back in the day. Not saying Haye has the punch resistance of Evander all of a sudden I just think he takes a better shot than some on here think.

    Oh yeah and Khan is only a 1 weight champ too.

    RJJ, you feel Haye was "weight-drained" at cruiserweight? He seems to have the body build that fits a good sized cruiserweight or small heavyweight, but I wouldn't characterize him as "weight-drained" in the sense of the word we usually use to describe fighters in other divisions.

    Also, you attribute Haye's "lesser chin" at CW than at HW to his weight? Again, I'm at a loss here, because to me, chin resistance has always been independent of weight. Matter of fact, it would seem that if anything his punch resistance would go down at HW, where bigger guys are throwing a lot harder punches.
    David has said in the past that he struggled to make the CW limit, and yes, draining down in weight can have an adverse effect on punch resistence caused by dehydration. Look it up.

    That doesn't add up as to why he would take a better punch at HW than at CW. The reality of it is, he hasn't really been tagged with a good shot at HW yet, whereas he very likely did get hit with some solid shots as a CW, where I'm sure he took a lot more chances.
    Why did Chris Byrd take a better shot at HW than at 175 then?

  8. #83
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    Default Re: What's next for Haye

    Quote Originally Posted by rjj tszyu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rjj tszyu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rantcatrat View Post
    Is it me or are Haye and Khan quite comparable? Both British, both two division champions, both fast, quality athletes with good boxing skills, and both lack quality chins. Haye and Khan were each starched by much lesser boxers, Haye by Carl Thompson as a cruiserweight, Khan by Breides Prescott as a lightweight.

    Looking at the comparison, Haye may have the edge over Khan for two reasons: (1) he hides his primary deficiency better than Khan and (2) he has one-punch knockout power. With regard to hiding his deficiency, it's not entirely proven because Haye hasn't faced the equivalent of Danny Garcia as a heavyweight: a good, undefeated boxer who can crack a bit. I would probably put Povetkin in that group. I can't recall when it was, maybe in the beginning of the third round, but I believe Chisora connected once well against Haye, and Haye visibly reacted to it, and Chisora is no puncher. With Wlad, Wlad is sufficiently disciplined that he never gave Haye an opportunity to touch him without Haye exposing himself, and Haye couldn't risk getting touched because of his chin deficiency. A lot will be told about Haye when we see if he can handle a punch of a heavyweight. I'm not sure Haye will give us the chance to see it though, unless it is against Vitali. Even Vitali, at 40, however, doesn't have one-punch knockout power. However, he may have enough to cause Haye to fight safe the whole fight.

    With regard to his power, no one can deny Haye has big punching power that Khan just doesn't possess. Haye has starched too many big men for that. It's got to be in the top ten of power currently. The punching power also gives Haye another device to mask his chin deficiency.
    Haye took decent shots off Wladimir. Not many but he definitely took them. I think his chin is actually a little underrated. The shot Chisora hit him with about 10 seconds after the bell to end the 3rd that caught Haye completely going the wrong way looked a good shot and Haye just smiled and walked back to the corner. He got hit with much lesser shots at CW that floored him. I think the weight draining caused a lot of his problems back in the day. Not saying Haye has the punch resistance of Evander all of a sudden I just think he takes a better shot than some on here think.

    Oh yeah and Khan is only a 1 weight champ too.

    RJJ, you feel Haye was "weight-drained" at cruiserweight? He seems to have the body build that fits a good sized cruiserweight or small heavyweight, but I wouldn't characterize him as "weight-drained" in the sense of the word we usually use to describe fighters in other divisions.

    Also, you attribute Haye's "lesser chin" at CW than at HW to his weight? Again, I'm at a loss here, because to me, chin resistance has always been independent of weight. Matter of fact, it would seem that if anything his punch resistance would go down at HW, where bigger guys are throwing a lot harder punches.
    Remember though when he fought Mock (the fight in which he was declared chinny) the CW limit was still 190 and against Thompson only a blind man would say that was down to his chin and not the fact he blew himself out which was down to inexperience. I think Haye has the body of a 210-215 fighter.

    Making weight can weaken you, that is without question. Or do you actually think Mock hits harder than Wlad?

    Haye AND Wlad both fought cautiously in their fight. I only watched the fight once (couldn't bear to watch it again), and do not recall Wlad connecting any good, solid shots on Haye's jaw. But no... I'm not claiming Mock hits harder than Wlad.

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    Default Re: What's next for Haye

    Quote Originally Posted by rjj tszyu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mega View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rjj tszyu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rantcatrat View Post
    Is it me or are Haye and Khan quite comparable? Both British, both two division champions, both fast, quality athletes with good boxing skills, and both lack quality chins. Haye and Khan were each starched by much lesser boxers, Haye by Carl Thompson as a cruiserweight, Khan by Breides Prescott as a lightweight.

    Looking at the comparison, Haye may have the edge over Khan for two reasons: (1) he hides his primary deficiency better than Khan and (2) he has one-punch knockout power. With regard to hiding his deficiency, it's not entirely proven because Haye hasn't faced the equivalent of Danny Garcia as a heavyweight: a good, undefeated boxer who can crack a bit. I would probably put Povetkin in that group. I can't recall when it was, maybe in the beginning of the third round, but I believe Chisora connected once well against Haye, and Haye visibly reacted to it, and Chisora is no puncher. With Wlad, Wlad is sufficiently disciplined that he never gave Haye an opportunity to touch him without Haye exposing himself, and Haye couldn't risk getting touched because of his chin deficiency. A lot will be told about Haye when we see if he can handle a punch of a heavyweight. I'm not sure Haye will give us the chance to see it though, unless it is against Vitali. Even Vitali, at 40, however, doesn't have one-punch knockout power. However, he may have enough to cause Haye to fight safe the whole fight.

    With regard to his power, no one can deny Haye has big punching power that Khan just doesn't possess. Haye has starched too many big men for that. It's got to be in the top ten of power currently. The punching power also gives Haye another device to mask his chin deficiency.
    Haye took decent shots off Wladimir. Not many but he definitely took them. I think his chin is actually a little underrated. The shot Chisora hit him with about 10 seconds after the bell to end the 3rd that caught Haye completely going the wrong way looked a good shot and Haye just smiled and walked back to the corner. He got hit with much lesser shots at CW that floored him. I think the weight draining caused a lot of his problems back in the day. Not saying Haye has the punch resistance of Evander all of a sudden I just think he takes a better shot than some on here think.

    Oh yeah and Khan is only a 1 weight champ too.

    RJJ, you feel Haye was "weight-drained" at cruiserweight? He seems to have the body build that fits a good sized cruiserweight or small heavyweight, but I wouldn't characterize him as "weight-drained" in the sense of the word we usually use to describe fighters in other divisions.

    Also, you attribute Haye's "lesser chin" at CW than at HW to his weight? Again, I'm at a loss here, because to me, chin resistance has always been independent of weight. Matter of fact, it would seem that if anything his punch resistance would go down at HW, where bigger guys are throwing a lot harder punches.
    David has said in the past that he struggled to make the CW limit, and yes, draining down in weight can have an adverse effect on punch resistence caused by dehydration. Look it up.

    That doesn't add up as to why he would take a better punch at HW than at CW. The reality of it is, he hasn't really been tagged with a good shot at HW yet, whereas he very likely did get hit with some solid shots as a CW, where I'm sure he took a lot more chances.
    Why did Chris Byrd take a better shot at HW than at 175 then?


    You didn't just say that, right?

    Four out of Byrd's five losses were by KO...... all at heavyweight.
    Now, tell me why Byrd's chin was better at HW.

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    Default Re: What's next for Haye

    Titofan... please address my posts. Or are you going to avoid me, as I keep exposing your subpar posts?

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    Default Re: What's next for Haye

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rjj tszyu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mega View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rjj tszyu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rantcatrat View Post
    Is it me or are Haye and Khan quite comparable? Both British, both two division champions, both fast, quality athletes with good boxing skills, and both lack quality chins. Haye and Khan were each starched by much lesser boxers, Haye by Carl Thompson as a cruiserweight, Khan by Breides Prescott as a lightweight.

    Looking at the comparison, Haye may have the edge over Khan for two reasons: (1) he hides his primary deficiency better than Khan and (2) he has one-punch knockout power. With regard to hiding his deficiency, it's not entirely proven because Haye hasn't faced the equivalent of Danny Garcia as a heavyweight: a good, undefeated boxer who can crack a bit. I would probably put Povetkin in that group. I can't recall when it was, maybe in the beginning of the third round, but I believe Chisora connected once well against Haye, and Haye visibly reacted to it, and Chisora is no puncher. With Wlad, Wlad is sufficiently disciplined that he never gave Haye an opportunity to touch him without Haye exposing himself, and Haye couldn't risk getting touched because of his chin deficiency. A lot will be told about Haye when we see if he can handle a punch of a heavyweight. I'm not sure Haye will give us the chance to see it though, unless it is against Vitali. Even Vitali, at 40, however, doesn't have one-punch knockout power. However, he may have enough to cause Haye to fight safe the whole fight.

    With regard to his power, no one can deny Haye has big punching power that Khan just doesn't possess. Haye has starched too many big men for that. It's got to be in the top ten of power currently. The punching power also gives Haye another device to mask his chin deficiency.
    Haye took decent shots off Wladimir. Not many but he definitely took them. I think his chin is actually a little underrated. The shot Chisora hit him with about 10 seconds after the bell to end the 3rd that caught Haye completely going the wrong way looked a good shot and Haye just smiled and walked back to the corner. He got hit with much lesser shots at CW that floored him. I think the weight draining caused a lot of his problems back in the day. Not saying Haye has the punch resistance of Evander all of a sudden I just think he takes a better shot than some on here think.

    Oh yeah and Khan is only a 1 weight champ too.

    RJJ, you feel Haye was "weight-drained" at cruiserweight? He seems to have the body build that fits a good sized cruiserweight or small heavyweight, but I wouldn't characterize him as "weight-drained" in the sense of the word we usually use to describe fighters in other divisions.

    Also, you attribute Haye's "lesser chin" at CW than at HW to his weight? Again, I'm at a loss here, because to me, chin resistance has always been independent of weight. Matter of fact, it would seem that if anything his punch resistance would go down at HW, where bigger guys are throwing a lot harder punches.
    David has said in the past that he struggled to make the CW limit, and yes, draining down in weight can have an adverse effect on punch resistence caused by dehydration. Look it up.

    That doesn't add up as to why he would take a better punch at HW than at CW. The reality of it is, he hasn't really been tagged with a good shot at HW yet, whereas he very likely did get hit with some solid shots as a CW, where I'm sure he took a lot more chances.
    Why did Chris Byrd take a better shot at HW than at 175 then?


    You didn't just say that, right?

    Four out of Byrd's five losses were by KO...... all at heavyweight.
    Now, tell me why Byrd's chin was better at HW.
    I won't go into this right now as I respect you as a fan of boxing and I don't want to upset you. All I'll say is check the facts! What happened when Byrd went back to 175? Just 7 months after it took Povetkin 11 rounds to get rid of him?

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    Default Re: What's next for Haye

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeanz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erics44 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeanz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mars_ax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
    I'm sure Steve Bunce had to take a cold shower after watching the fight. David Haye is STILL a punk and he STILL has little hope of beating either Klitschko brother
    This is true, but try telling that to Haye's fanboys, hell hath no fury like a Brit fanboy scorned.
    Have you actually watched the fight? Calling people fanboys is beyond childish. Maybe you can prove your maturity, and ability to be rational, by putting everybody who has a different opinion than you on ignore.


    ha, im on his ignore list because i disagreed with him
    Yeah but you can't be a Brit fanboy because according to some on here you are Danish:-)
    For what it's worth Eric and Beanz, I only have one cretin/dip-shit on ignore right now, and it's not for disagreeing with me. I used to have Eric on ignore until I figured out that he was just a harmless, mentally challenged, silly rabbit, a bit like you Beanz.
    As for Brit fanboys, if the shoe fits wear it, plus it's great fun pissing off Haye's nut-lickers and pointing out how gay acting you are.
    BTW, maturity is overrated.
    Last edited by Mars_ax; 07-16-2012 at 06:06 PM.

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    Default Re: What's next for Haye

    Quote Originally Posted by Mega View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rjj tszyu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rantcatrat View Post
    Is it me or are Haye and Khan quite comparable? Both British, both two division champions, both fast, quality athletes with good boxing skills, and both lack quality chins. Haye and Khan were each starched by much lesser boxers, Haye by Carl Thompson as a cruiserweight, Khan by Breides Prescott as a lightweight.

    Looking at the comparison, Haye may have the edge over Khan for two reasons: (1) he hides his primary deficiency better than Khan and (2) he has one-punch knockout power. With regard to hiding his deficiency, it's not entirely proven because Haye hasn't faced the equivalent of Danny Garcia as a heavyweight: a good, undefeated boxer who can crack a bit. I would probably put Povetkin in that group. I can't recall when it was, maybe in the beginning of the third round, but I believe Chisora connected once well against Haye, and Haye visibly reacted to it, and Chisora is no puncher. With Wlad, Wlad is sufficiently disciplined that he never gave Haye an opportunity to touch him without Haye exposing himself, and Haye couldn't risk getting touched because of his chin deficiency. A lot will be told about Haye when we see if he can handle a punch of a heavyweight. I'm not sure Haye will give us the chance to see it though, unless it is against Vitali. Even Vitali, at 40, however, doesn't have one-punch knockout power. However, he may have enough to cause Haye to fight safe the whole fight.

    With regard to his power, no one can deny Haye has big punching power that Khan just doesn't possess. Haye has starched too many big men for that. It's got to be in the top ten of power currently. The punching power also gives Haye another device to mask his chin deficiency.
    Haye took decent shots off Wladimir. Not many but he definitely took them. I think his chin is actually a little underrated. The shot Chisora hit him with about 10 seconds after the bell to end the 3rd that caught Haye completely going the wrong way looked a good shot and Haye just smiled and walked back to the corner. He got hit with much lesser shots at CW that floored him. I think the weight draining caused a lot of his problems back in the day. Not saying Haye has the punch resistance of Evander all of a sudden I just think he takes a better shot than some on here think.

    Oh yeah and Khan is only a 1 weight champ too.

    RJJ, you feel Haye was "weight-drained" at cruiserweight? He seems to have the body build that fits a good sized cruiserweight or small heavyweight, but I wouldn't characterize him as "weight-drained" in the sense of the word we usually use to describe fighters in other divisions.

    Also, you attribute Haye's "lesser chin" at CW than at HW to his weight? Again, I'm at a loss here, because to me, chin resistance has always been independent of weight. Matter of fact, it would seem that if anything his punch resistance would go down at HW, where bigger guys are throwing a lot harder punches.
    David has said in the past that he struggled to make the CW limit. And yes, draining down in weight can have an adverse effect on punch resistence. Caused by dehydration. Look it up.
    He weighed in for this fight though probably at around 205-207, considering the denim he was wearing and the rest of his clothes. I agree it's completely dependent on the individual, but in Haye's case, I don't think weight has affected his ability to take a punch all that much because he hasn't got that much bigger. When you take into consideration what cruiserweight Haye actually weighed at the time of the fight, as opposed to the weigh in, the difference to his fighting weight at heavyweight is negligible. I would argue that he has a below-average chin, as far as heavyweights are concerned. He has less of a chin than any other top-ten heavyweight. Wouldn't you agree?

    Same can be said of Amir Khan. It actually can be argued that Khan has shown more punch resistance than Haye in a certain respect. Remember the Maidana fight, he got hit with some sledgehammer shots and remained upright. I have not seen Haye get hit with anything resembling those shots as a heavyweight, which again, goes to show that he does a better job of protecting his deficiency.

    We can all agree that Chisora is a very light-punching heavyweight so being able to take his punch doesn't say very much for your chin one way or the other. Recall the number of punches that Helenius took from Chisora; he didn't seem fazed at all? I don't remember Wlad hitting Haye with any crisp shots. There were a quite a few good glancing blows, but nothing crisp. In any event, nothing like the shot Khan took from Garcia.

    My comparison was just that they are both world-level British former champions, that are fast and athletic, and that lack world class chins. We saw what happened to Khan when he stepped up to a puncher. It would be fun to see what would happen to Haye. He might pass with flying colors. I'm not a fan of Haye's, but he put on a good performance last weekend, and he brings a lot of fans. It made me interested enough to want to see Haye climb the ranks a bit at heavyweight. See him tested against guys his size that have a little pop to their punches and see how he does. Adamek, Chambers aren't those guys, but they are good boxers. Arreola and Povetkin would be more fun simply because of the question of whether they could get to Haye, and if and when he did, how Haye would react. Haye would be favored in those fights though, don't get me wrong.
    Last edited by Rantcatrat; 07-16-2012 at 06:52 PM.

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    Default Re: What's next for Haye

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rjj tszyu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rantcatrat View Post
    Is it me or are Haye and Khan quite comparable? Both British, both two division champions, both fast, quality athletes with good boxing skills, and both lack quality chins. Haye and Khan were each starched by much lesser boxers, Haye by Carl Thompson as a cruiserweight, Khan by Breides Prescott as a lightweight.

    Looking at the comparison, Haye may have the edge over Khan for two reasons: (1) he hides his primary deficiency better than Khan and (2) he has one-punch knockout power. With regard to hiding his deficiency, it's not entirely proven because Haye hasn't faced the equivalent of Danny Garcia as a heavyweight: a good, undefeated boxer who can crack a bit. I would probably put Povetkin in that group. I can't recall when it was, maybe in the beginning of the third round, but I believe Chisora connected once well against Haye, and Haye visibly reacted to it, and Chisora is no puncher. With Wlad, Wlad is sufficiently disciplined that he never gave Haye an opportunity to touch him without Haye exposing himself, and Haye couldn't risk getting touched because of his chin deficiency. A lot will be told about Haye when we see if he can handle a punch of a heavyweight. I'm not sure Haye will give us the chance to see it though, unless it is against Vitali. Even Vitali, at 40, however, doesn't have one-punch knockout power. However, he may have enough to cause Haye to fight safe the whole fight.

    With regard to his power, no one can deny Haye has big punching power that Khan just doesn't possess. Haye has starched too many big men for that. It's got to be in the top ten of power currently. The punching power also gives Haye another device to mask his chin deficiency.
    Haye took decent shots off Wladimir. Not many but he definitely took them. I think his chin is actually a little underrated. The shot Chisora hit him with about 10 seconds after the bell to end the 3rd that caught Haye completely going the wrong way looked a good shot and Haye just smiled and walked back to the corner. He got hit with much lesser shots at CW that floored him. I think the weight draining caused a lot of his problems back in the day. Not saying Haye has the punch resistance of Evander all of a sudden I just think he takes a better shot than some on here think.

    Oh yeah and Khan is only a 1 weight champ too.

    RJJ, you feel Haye was "weight-drained" at cruiserweight? He seems to have the body build that fits a good sized cruiserweight or small heavyweight, but I wouldn't characterize him as "weight-drained" in the sense of the word we usually use to describe fighters in other divisions.

    Also, you attribute Haye's "lesser chin" at CW than at HW to his weight? Again, I'm at a loss here, because to me, chin resistance has always been independent of weight. Matter of fact, it would seem that if anything his punch resistance would go down at HW, where bigger guys are throwing a lot harder punches.
    Dehydrate a stone of fluids out of your body and tell me how steady your legs feel... you do know that a dehydrated fighter has less fluid cushioning the brain as well?

    Why do you think they banned same day weigh ins?

    Boiling down to a weight definetly has a big part to play in chin. Heavies may have more mass behind a punch but if you can see a punch coming you'll ride the punch and reduce the force delivered. The ones that catch you blind are the ones that hurt.

    There are too many factors to say for sure, but the argument that Haye's chin is better at heavy is credible - mote fluid around the brain, more glycogen and h2o etc in his cells and slower punches that he can ride if he sees them coming before they hit.

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    Default Re: What's next for Haye

    Quote Originally Posted by Mars_ax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeanz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erics44 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeanz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mars_ax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
    I'm sure Steve Bunce had to take a cold shower after watching the fight. David Haye is STILL a punk and he STILL has little hope of beating either Klitschko brother
    This is true, but try telling that to Haye's fanboys, hell hath no fury like a Brit fanboy scorned.
    Have you actually watched the fight? Calling people fanboys is beyond childish. Maybe you can prove your maturity, and ability to be rational, by putting everybody who has a different opinion than you on ignore.


    ha, im on his ignore list because i disagreed with him
    Yeah but you can't be a Brit fanboy because according to some on here you are Danish:-)
    For what it's worth Eric and Beanz, I only have one cretin/dip-shit on ignore right now, and it's not for disagreeing with me. I used to have Eric on ignore until I figured out that he was just a harmless, mentally challenged, silly rabbit, a bit like you Beanz.
    As for Brit fanboys, if the shoe fits wear it, plus it's great fun pissing off Haye's nut-lickers and pointing out how gay acting you are.
    BTW, maturity is overrated.
    you put me on your ignore list coz i made you look like a right cunt
    Officially the only saddo who has had a girlfriend

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