The truth and facts about The career of Muhammad Ali

[frankenfrank]

So what you're saying is that he beat everybody, but everybody had an excuse or a story?

I edited my opening post of d thread since then .
I hoped d conclusions will b obvious , but since many ppl unfamiliar enough with d sport or just plain stupid and shallow minded , i decided 2b nice , pedagogically correct and deduced d conclusions 4 u .
Now u can read more about d connection between all of these stories and excuses .
There is a reason and cause 4 everything . 1 does not cut & swell so many so often just in case .
Remember Margachito vs Cotto ? remember Cotto's face later ?
Remember Billy Collins Jr.'s face after his fight with Luis Resto ?
still don't get it ?
i once saw some1 accusing Marchegiano at loading his gloves . Don't know if it's true . But I don't rule it out , and neither do d pics of Ezzard Charles' face after their 1st fight .
Everything must b a coincidence , doesn't it ?

hahahahahaha so no you're saying that Ali was a farce yet you go on to try and boast Ramirez as an ATG hahaha the kid needs to get his head checked, and yes I have seen all of the aforementioned fights, have Ali's career set, Muhammad isn't just the "self proclaimed" the only two fighters who get mentioned constantly when debating the greatest HW of all time it's between Ali and Louis, why? cause they faced everyone and always defied the odds, Ali brought the psychological game to another level, plenty of other fighters since have tried to emulate it, most recently Mayweather

What a low level of reply . It's just u , isn't it ? repeating what u were told since u were a child .
Never applying thought , never trying 2 find d common cause / reason 4 things . Just posting shit like u always do .
Which odds exactly did Ali or Louis overcome ?
Liston took a dive against Ali in both of their fights , their 1st was such a scandalous quit that it was hard 2 sell d 2nd 2d public . Their 2nd yet even worse .
Ali , Mirena and Don King cheated huge time vs Foreman in Zaire in 1974 . U can read about it in d article i posted a link 2 in d 1st post of d thread .
I will post another thread in d future about "D Rumble In D Jungle" in Zaire in 1974 .

Both Ali and Louis enjoyed size advantage over d vast majority of their opponents .
But this thread is not about Jose Louis Barrow nor about Jose Luis Ramirez , so leave them out because i will not get dragged by u in2 a complete gutter level argument like u did in d other thread .

[Scrap]

He is on a Windup.. You can talk to a Man with a Wooden Leg, not a Man with a Wooden Head.

[ElTerribleMorales]

So what you're saying is that he beat everybody, but everybody had an excuse or a story?

I edited my opening post of d thread since then .
I hoped d conclusions will b obvious , but since many ppl unfamiliar enough with d sport or just plain stupid and shallow minded , i decided 2b nice , pedagogically correct and deduced d conclusions 4 u .
Now u can read more about d connection between all of these stories and excuses .
There is a reason and cause 4 everything . 1 does not cut & swell so many so often just in case .
Remember Margachito vs Cotto ? remember Cotto's face later ?
Remember Billy Collins Jr.'s face after his fight with Luis Resto ?
still don't get it ?
i once saw some1 accusing Marchegiano at loading his gloves . Don't know if it's true . But I don't rule it out , and neither do d pics of Ezzard Charles' face after their 1st fight .
Everything must b a coincidence , doesn't it ?

hahahahahaha so no you're saying that Ali was a farce yet you go on to try and boast Ramirez as an ATG hahaha the kid needs to get his head checked, and yes I have seen all of the aforementioned fights, have Ali's career set, Muhammad isn't just the "self proclaimed" the only two fighters who get mentioned constantly when debating the greatest HW of all time it's between Ali and Louis, why? cause they faced everyone and always defied the odds, Ali brought the psychological game to another level, plenty of other fighters since have tried to emulate it, most recently Mayweather

What a low level of reply . It's just u , isn't it ? repeating what u were told since u were a child .
Never applying thought , never trying 2 find d common cause / reason 4 things . Just posting shit like u always do .
Which odds exactly did Ali or Louis overcome ?
Liston took a dive against Ali in both of their fights , their 1st was such a scandalous quit that it was hard 2 sell d 2nd 2d public . Their 2nd yet even worse .
Ali , Mirena and Don King cheated huge time vs Foreman in Zaire in 1974 . U can read about it in d article i posted a link 2 in d 1st post of d thread .
I will post another thread in d future about "D Rumble In D Jungle" in Zaire in 1974 .

Both Ali and Louis enjoyed size advantage over d vast majority of their opponents .
But this thread is not about Jose Louis Barrow nor about Jose Luis Ramirez , so leave them out because i will not get dragged by u in2 a complete gutter level argument like u did in d other thread .

lol yea cause you completely ignore the mere fact that it was Liston who had the mob connections, and was the one who tried to allegedly cheat in the first fight, Ali was the underdog going into the fight, you ignore the FACT that Ali once again was the underdog going in against the younger, much larger George Foreman going into their bout, you ignore that Ali was out for what? 3 yrs due to evading the draft, and that Louis gave up most of his prime due to serving in the military, yet both went on not only to face the best but beat the vast majority, see you make up your theories and your little conspiracies and ignore REAL FACTS, you try to discredit GREAT fighter's accomplishments putting up fake weak excuses yet you try to build up fighters that were a little bit above mediocre at a world stage like Ramirez, like I said in another thread you ramble on about fake stats yet fail to see true greatness cause you have zero knowledge in the art that is BOXING, probably have never stepped into a boxing ring nor have any grasp on the fundamentals of the sport, you're clueless bud, and that's why you're considered as a joke on here

[Mark TKO]

Ali lost to Spinks who had had only 6 fights

Ali must have been crap. Fact

[ElTerribleMorales]

Ali lost to Spinks who had had only 6 fights

Ali must have been crap. Fact

yea that's his logic, fully ignoring the fact that Leon was an Olympic gold medalist, younger, and Ali was unmotivated, on the slide and already beginning to show signs of Parkinson's, and given all those factors still beat Spinks in the rematch

[El Kabong]

I think Ali needs to be looked at as a boxer which is oddly enough the last thing people look at. To many Ali is "The Greatest" why? Because he talked himself up and billed himself as "The Greatest" certainly he was a great heavyweight, but don't get the blinders on. Sure Ali lost time to protesting the Vietnam War, but Joe Louis served his country & lost years of his prime as well, he also defended his title better as well. Those are just a few of the reasons why Joe Louis is actually The Greatest Heavyweight of All-Time, Ali is still up there as is Marciano.

Thing is, everyone has tough fights, but it seems to me a lot of people rate Ali based on his cult of personality status rather than what he did in the ring and anyone who says something against that will be berated for their insolence.

[ElTerribleMorales]

I think Ali needs to be looked at as a boxer which is oddly enough the last thing people look at. To many Ali is "The Greatest" why? Because he talked himself up and billed himself as "The Greatest" certainly he was a great heavyweight, but don't get the blinders on. Sure Ali lost time to protesting the Vietnam War, but Joe Louis served his country & lost years of his prime as well, he also defended his title better as well. Those are just a few of the reasons why Joe Louis is actually The Greatest Heavyweight of All-Time, Ali is still up there as is Marciano.

Thing is, everyone has tough fights, but it seems to me a lot of people rate Ali based on his cult of personality status rather than what he did in the ring and anyone who says something against that will be berated for their insolence.

see you at least point out certain valid points, but you don't try to discredit every single accomplishment Ali has on his record, that's why I stated that when it comes to greatest HW it's basically between Louis and Ali, IMO Marciano doesn't even come close, Ali's resume is awesome, but Louis dominated like no other, so you could make a valid claim for either guy

[Althugz]

You like picking apart boxers careers don't you, Frankenfrank? I guess you could do this to every great fighter that has ever been and gone. Same as your post about the fab 4..Must be quite hard to enjoy boxing if you're constantly looking to discredit every fighters wins/losses/fights?

Although, if you are making any more of these posts, you wouldn't mind doing a break down of Joe Calzaghe would you? good lad!

(I'm joking btw JC fanclub..)

[El Kabong]

see you at least point out certain valid points, but you don't try to discredit every single accomplishment Ali has on his record, that's why I stated that when it comes to greatest HW it's basically between Louis and Ali, IMO Marciano doesn't even come close, Ali's resume is awesome, but Louis dominated like no other, so you could make a valid claim for either guy

No I don't try and discredit everything he did, I'm just a boxing fan and yes Ali had some very tough fights vs some guys who weren't very good. Billy Daniels fought Ali VERY hard! If not for the cut who know what happens. That is part of my line of thinking when putting Rocky Marciano up along side Louis & Ali because the guy never lost. Over 49 fights he always came out the victor, I'm certain he had nights where he wasn't as excited to fight as others, sometimes you've got to feel like he didn't have his 'A-game', sometimes you've got to feel a fighter was 100% ready for Rocky and really amped up to fight him, but every single one of those guys lost to him, it's a really amazing feat.

[brocktonblockbust]

I think Ali needs to be looked at as a boxer which is oddly enough the last thing people look at. To many Ali is "The Greatest" why? Because he talked himself up and billed himself as "The Greatest" certainly he was a great heavyweight, but don't get the blinders on. Sure Ali lost time to protesting the Vietnam War, but Joe Louis served his country & lost years of his prime as well, he also defended his title better as well. Those are just a few of the reasons why Joe Louis is actually The Greatest Heavyweight of All-Time, Ali is still up there as is Marciano.

Thing is, everyone has tough fights, but it seems to me a lot of people rate Ali based on his cult of personality status rather than what he did in the ring and anyone who says something against that will be berated for their insolence.

thıs ıs a great post. I thınk Alı should also be looked upon as a boxer only. Forget hıs black muslım hıstory and antı-vıetnam stuff---Jımı Hendrıx can claım the same stats-----does that make Hendrıx a ranked boxer then? Many people were agaınst vıewnam and raısed questıons about blacks havıng whıte names, etc. Lets just look at Alı as a boxer---OK:

perhaps the fastest of all tıme for a heavy no doubt about ıt
but and thıs ıs a BIG BUT----HE SURE GOT CLOCKED THOUSANDS OF TIMES BY FRAZIER FOR EXAMPLE IN THEIR 1ST FIGHT--- CONSIDERING HE WAS THE FASTEST IN THE WORLD! I thought those left hooks from rounds 9 through 15 decapıtated Ali personally and he was never the same agaın. Frazıer ended Ali's career ın March of 1971. FACT. After that Alı relıed pretty much onbeıng a human punchıng bag and rope a dopıng etc. flat footed and gettıng hıt so fuckıng much by Norton and Shavers and Spınks ıts no wonder he's ın the state he's ın now. Great chin though.

[Master]

Ali lost to Spinks who had had only 6 fights

Ali must have been crap. Fact

And Ali lost to Berbick who was flattened by Tyson so makes him greater than Ali.

[Master]

FrankenFrank you are a complete tool, how can you on one hand criticise Ali’s opponents and blame Ali for it, he only fought what was in front of him which so happens to be 2 (Frazier and Foreman) if not 3 (Liston) of the greatest heavyweights ever. Why do you believe the conspiracy that Foreman was cheated in Zaire. It is you being selective with the truth to suit your own interest and stop blaming others for not agreeing with you.

[roberto duran legend]

Frankenfart you a d d d d d d d d d d d dumb man. What you know about boxing,
you could put on the back of a stamp.

[El Kabong]

FrankenFrank you are a complete tool, how can you on one hand criticise Ali’s opponents and blame Ali for it, he only fought what was in front of him which so happens to be 2 (Frazier and Foreman) if not 3 (Liston) of the greatest heavyweights ever. Why do you believe the conspiracy that Foreman was cheated in Zaire. It is you being selective with the truth to suit your own interest and stop blaming others for not agreeing with you.

....Liston is not a great heavyweight

[frankenfrank]

lots of replies by lots of idiots do not take away from d truth and do not turn d truth in2 lie . Will not get dragged 2 their gutter level of argument , but d opening post showcases d truth .
No1 tried 2 argue against it so far .
No1 disputed any 1 of d facts in it .
In El Kabong's post , he even mentioned a fight i was not aware about , Billy Daniels .
There is more 2b told , like d Billy Daniels fight , and probably additional fights as well .
I will not post my top 10 or 20 heavyweights in this thread , at least not yet , and will not get dragged easily in2 arguing about them in this thread which its subject is Ali's career but i will state this :
Muhammad Ali , Larry Holmes , Joe Louis , Jack Dempsey , Gene Tunney and Rocco Markegiano r all vastly overrated . A man who drew d color line does not deserve recognition as a champion . Regardless of how many titles or weight classes were or were not available during his era .
El Kabong's 1st post in this thread is nearly correct , except of 1 thing , he called Ali a great heavyweight , which he was not .
Because any1 who argues against it , especially in this thread where facts r already typed and available 4 every1 2 read , ignores my 1st post . Any1 who has any argument against my 1st post show me what u argue against . That was not what d gutter inhabitants (excluding El Kabong whom is not completely correct either) from d 1st page did .