The truth and facts about The career of Muhammad Ali

[El Kabong]

see you at least point out certain valid points, but you don't try to discredit every single accomplishment Ali has on his record, that's why I stated that when it comes to greatest HW it's basically between Louis and Ali, IMO Marciano doesn't even come close, Ali's resume is awesome, but Louis dominated like no other, so you could make a valid claim for either guy

No I don't try and discredit everything he did, I'm just a boxing fan and yes Ali had some very tough fights vs some guys who weren't very good. Billy Daniels fought Ali VERY hard! If not for the cut who know what happens. That is part of my line of thinking when putting Rocky Marciano up along side Louis & Ali because the guy never lost. Over 49 fights he always came out the victor, I'm certain he had nights where he wasn't as excited to fight as others, sometimes you've got to feel like he didn't have his 'A-game', sometimes you've got to feel a fighter was 100% ready for Rocky and really amped up to fight him, but every single one of those guys lost to him, it's a really amazing feat.

[Master]

Heavyweights can only be rated relevant to their era, Point?

That was my point.

It wasn't really a dig, more a factual analysis with a sarcastic twist. Im an ali fan but unlike many casual fans i have a true sense of perspective on the man.

Other titbit's:

-Leon spinks was 6-0 as a pro when he fought ali for the title! Imagine if that happened now!!

-Cleveland Williams had been inactive the entire year of 1965 while recovering from gunshot wounds he suffered at the hands of a police officer arising out of a traffic stop. Williams was shot with a .357 Magnum in the abdomen, barely survived, and suffered permanent kidney damage, a loss of over ten feet of his small intestine, and nerve damage from the bullet which affected his left leg above the knee, causing it to atrophy as a result. Can u imagine that now

-Frazier was blind in one eye his entire career too, he would not pass the medical today!!

-Listons true birthdate is unknown, most think he was late 30's at least when he fought ali!

-Fighting a 47 year old archie moore at 20 yrs old was just ridiculous! Sorry but come on....

On the upside though he still is a legend and was an exceptional talent and inspiration.

Philosopher your points are interesting but I think Benitez who was blind in one eye was licensed to fight in 1990’s. Holmes came into the fight with Holyfield in his contact lenses. Basically it could still happen.

[Master]

Ali lost to Spinks who had had only 6 fights

Ali must have been crap. Fact

And Ali lost to Berbick who was flattened by Tyson so makes him greater than Ali.

[Master]

FrankenFrank you are a complete tool, how can you on one hand criticise Ali’s opponents and blame Ali for it, he only fought what was in front of him which so happens to be 2 (Frazier and Foreman) if not 3 (Liston) of the greatest heavyweights ever. Why do you believe the conspiracy that Foreman was cheated in Zaire. It is you being selective with the truth to suit your own interest and stop blaming others for not agreeing with you.

[roberto duran legend]

Frankenfart you a d d d d d d d d d d d dumb man. What you know about boxing,
you could put on the back of a stamp.

[El Kabong]

FrankenFrank you are a complete tool, how can you on one hand criticise Ali’s opponents and blame Ali for it, he only fought what was in front of him which so happens to be 2 (Frazier and Foreman) if not 3 (Liston) of the greatest heavyweights ever. Why do you believe the conspiracy that Foreman was cheated in Zaire. It is you being selective with the truth to suit your own interest and stop blaming others for not agreeing with you.

....Liston is not a great heavyweight

[frankenfrank]

lots of replies by lots of idiots do not take away from d truth and do not turn d truth in2 lie . Will not get dragged 2 their gutter level of argument , but d opening post showcases d truth .
No1 tried 2 argue against it so far .
No1 disputed any 1 of d facts in it .
In El Kabong's post , he even mentioned a fight i was not aware about , Billy Daniels .
There is more 2b told , like d Billy Daniels fight , and probably additional fights as well .
I will not post my top 10 or 20 heavyweights in this thread , at least not yet , and will not get dragged easily in2 arguing about them in this thread which its subject is Ali's career but i will state this :
Muhammad Ali , Larry Holmes , Joe Louis , Jack Dempsey , Gene Tunney and Rocco Markegiano r all vastly overrated . A man who drew d color line does not deserve recognition as a champion . Regardless of how many titles or weight classes were or were not available during his era .
El Kabong's 1st post in this thread is nearly correct , except of 1 thing , he called Ali a great heavyweight , which he was not .
Because any1 who argues against it , especially in this thread where facts r already typed and available 4 every1 2 read , ignores my 1st post . Any1 who has any argument against my 1st post show me what u argue against . That was not what d gutter inhabitants (excluding El Kabong whom is not completely correct either) from d 1st page did .

[Spicoli]

Dude. And I thought I wasted alot of time over analyzing shit.

Missing sc's right about now

[chris6878]

Roids were not banned till the 80s.

I thought sugar ray was the greatest

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

It is true that Ali is one of the (i won't say most but) freely overrated boxers ever.

I adore him but have to concede...

[frankenfrank]

Dude. And I thought I wasted alot of time over analyzing shit.

Missing sc's right about now

i do not understand what u meant

Roids were not banned till the 80s.

I thought sugar ray was the greatest

IDK whether he used Roids or just testosterone injections which is what i typed , and he probably wasn't d only 1 . I read that steroids were available as PEDs in sports since d 1940s or 1950s .

It is true that Ali is one of the (i won't say most but) freely overrated boxers ever.

I adore him but have to concede...

I adore Corrie Sanders but i haven't listed him in my top 30 p4p nor in my top 30 heavyweights of all times yet .
Corrie Sanders was a rather clean fighter and everything ppl wished and hoped young Cautios Play was , immense handspeed , mobile , agile , effective at it , but did not get as many lucky breaks by a criminal trainer .
Has any1 seen me call him d greatest , let alone 1 of d 20 greatest ?
I love watching him fight , he was exceptional , but he had his flaws and his resume insufficient 4 it .


But what do u adore Cautious Play 4 ?
could it b it is due 2 his cautious play just in case ?

[THE THIRD MAN]

Well, it's getting a bit silly now isn't it?

[Beanz]

FrankenFrank you are a complete tool, how can you on one hand criticise Ali’s opponents and blame Ali for it, he only fought what was in front of him which so happens to be 2 (Frazier and Foreman) if not 3 (Liston) of the greatest heavyweights ever. Why do you believe the conspiracy that Foreman was cheated in Zaire. It is you being selective with the truth to suit your own interest and stop blaming others for not agreeing with you.

Mole grips, the swiss army knife, a pc even are complete tools. While you can probably open a can of beans or flatten a nail with Frankenfranks head, constructing a logical argument or posting coherently without resorting to replacing "the" with "d" and other retarded textspeak is clearly beyond him.

[Beanz]

He is at most a spanner, and a rusty one at that. I call shenanigans

[ElTerribleMorales]

yup fully agree that sc's need to make a comeback, at least I have a side project, need to write "BOXING: For Morons" and dedicate the book to Frankfurter, maybe that way his ass will actually learn something, but at least he has taught us something, that even though someone can watch a bunch of fights, they can still be completely oblivious and clueless to what the fuck is going on in what they're watching,