Lance Armstrong stripped of his 7 Tour de France titles

[TitoFan]

It,s just one of the many athletes that got caught for doping and has been able to elude it for a decade because his doctors and his techniques were ahead of the time. It,s like the Balco scandals, if it wasn't from an inside source, many athletes would have eluded tests; better doctors, new techniques...
There is way too many witnesses on that one and the samplers have been tested and re-tested and the labs who did perform it (including Chateau Malabry in France) are among the top labs in the world. Is he guilty? To me, 100%.

HOwever: the tour de France is notariously famous for being filled with enhancers users, back in the 60' the Pelissier brothers (Henri and Charles) were showing to reporters the pills and other stuff that they were handed by the tour managers in order to complete. At the time, the idea of cheating by taking enhancers wasn't spread neither much acknowledged.
In the meantime, these produces got prohibited and some tests (severe?) got imposed to find the cheaters but the cheating culture was already well rooted.

Though Amstrong deserves to lose his titles, what's sad is that he's just one of all those who did cheat, I am about certain that around 50% of the runners have some skeltons in their closet at some point and because he did win a lot, he's the one singled out for it.

Then who should they award Armstrong's titles to? How can we be sure that the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. finishers in those races weren't doping? Should the race results just be nulled? If the USADA has taken it upon themselves to ostracize Armstrong and ruin his career and legacy..... they should be even-handed about it and ruin a lot of other rider careers as well. Don't you think?

Armstrong's last title was back in 2005. Here we are in 2012, stripping him of all 7 titles. Rightly or wrongly.... does this smell a little rotten to anybody?

Efforts to rid sports (all sports) of doping are anything but even-handed. Authorities seem to choose their pariahs and go after them like pitchfork-wielding villagers after a grizzly bear.

Now.... after the fact..... it's open season on the fallen Armstrong, and you can bet everybody and their brother will come forward with some "new" story about how Armstrong "did this" and "did that". Amazing.

[Nameless]

It,s just one of the many athletes that got caught for doping and has been able to elude it for a decade because his doctors and his techniques were ahead of the time. It,s like the Balco scandals, if it wasn't from an inside source, many athletes would have eluded tests; better doctors, new techniques...
There is way too many witnesses on that one and the samplers have been tested and re-tested and the labs who did perform it (including Chateau Malabry in France) are among the top labs in the world. Is he guilty? To me, 100%.

HOwever: the tour de France is notariously famous for being filled with enhancers users, back in the 60' the Pelissier brothers (Henri and Charles) were showing to reporters the pills and other stuff that they were handed by the tour managers in order to complete. At the time, the idea of cheating by taking enhancers wasn't spread neither much acknowledged.
In the meantime, these produces got prohibited and some tests (severe?) got imposed to find the cheaters but the cheating culture was already well rooted.

Though Amstrong deserves to lose his titles, what's sad is that he's just one of all those who did cheat, I am about certain that around 50% of the runners have some skeltons in their closet at some point and because he did win a lot, he's the one singled out for it.

Then who should they award Armstrong's titles to? How can we be sure that the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. finishers in those races weren't doping? Should the race results just be nulled? If the USADA has taken it upon themselves to ostracize Armstrong and ruin his career and legacy..... they should be even-handed about it and ruin a lot of other rider careers as well. Don't you think?

Armstrong's last title was back in 2005. Here we are in 2012, stripping him of all 7 titles. Rightly or wrongly.... does this smell a little rotten to anybody?

Efforts to rid sports (all sports) of doping are anything but even-handed. Authorities seem to choose their pariahs and go after them like pitchfork-wielding villagers after a grizzly bear.

Now.... after the fact..... it's open season on the fallen Armstrong, and you can bet everybody and their brother will come forward with some "new" story about how Armstrong "did this" and "did that". Amazing.

As i said, it's not rotten because they only discovered afterward that he was probably using peds at the time, and the bureaucratic machine is waayyyyyy sloooow (almost as slow as the new testing techniques). So on that side, I'd say it's not rotten and comprehensive.
As for if the titles should be nullified or given to someone else (even though it does stink to receive a title 7 years retroactively), I think that they test al the samples they have spared from the racers behind Lance, according to the same standards and give it to the first cyclist who's in line behind him and who does past the tests and put a special rule that if the next 5-6 cyclists test positive, then the title is voided (which is the case for one of the seven but can't remember which year).

I'd advocate for something like that, personally. Thus said, the fact that Lance is a 500 millions charity caterer for cancer is all another debate and nobody can discredit him for that.

[superheavyrhun]

This whole Lance Armstrong thing still stinks to me. Armstrong, who has retired anyway is given a lifetime ban, whilst those guys who rode and doped with him get a six month ban because they stitched someone else up? For those guys still riding, that kind of incentive calls into question their testimony. And this is being spearheaded by the testimony of Tyler Hamilton and Floyd Landis....

If it wasn't for the guys like George Hincapie, who has nothing to lose, and as far as I can see nothing to gain from his testimony, then I would probably still be following the Armstrong defence. Then again, there's other people on his teams coming out saying they were never pushed or asked to do anything. I want to see what the UCI have to say before putting the final nail in the coffin, it just seems to me there are too many people with too many vendettas going on for anyone, riders, managers, journalists, regulators et al to come out with any credit at all.

This remains true however, and there are legacies that have been tainted in a much worse way. Jimmy Saville to name but one.

Thus said, the fact that Lance is a 500 millions charity caterer for cancer is all another debate and nobody can discredit him for that.

[superheavyrhun]

This

[TitoFan]

Lance apparently isn't doing too bad... and more importantly... his Livestrong foundation is doing better than ever. Let's hope it stays that way. Seems to me that the good a foundation like this can do for cancer victims, far outweighs any "chest-pounding" the USADA wants to continue doing.


Lance Armstrong’s Livestrong Foundation: Surviving the doping scandal

[Nameless]

This whole Lance Armstrong thing still stinks to me. Armstrong, who has retired anyway is given a lifetime ban, whilst those guys who rode and doped with him get a six month ban because they stitched someone else up? For those guys still riding, that kind of incentive calls into question their testimony. And this is being spearheaded by the testimony of Tyler Hamilton and Floyd Landis....

If it wasn't for the guys like George Hincapie, who has nothing to lose, and as far as I can see nothing to gain from his testimony, then I would probably still be following the Armstrong defence. Then again, there's other people on his teams coming out saying they were never pushed or asked to do anything. I want to see what the UCI have to say before putting the final nail in the coffin, it just seems to me there are too many people with too many vendettas going on for anyone, riders, managers, journalists, regulators et al to come out with any credit at all.

This remains true however, and there are legacies that have been tainted in a much worse way. Jimmy Saville to name but one.

Thus said, the fact that Lance is a 500 millions charity caterer for cancer is all another debate and nobody can discredit him for that.

The thing is that it's not only people testifying against him, many of his samplers have been found to be tainted by peds (only these things were harder to detect bac then) and Chateau Malabry is without the shadow of a doubt one of the toppest notch labs in the world. IT is getting quite hard for him to justify anything and his strongest line of defense, at this point, would consist in claiming for a world plot against him.
I still think that people should stop to beat the stick on him though, yes, he was guilty, just like many others, case close, move on, he has had enough and we should still all be grateful to him for what he did for cancer, 500 millions ain't a pocket full of pennies.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

surprised ryan isn't all over this

[Beanz]

Looks like someone wants their money back

Lance Armstrong must return all prize money, insists Christian Prudhomme - Telegraph

[ryanman]

surprised ryan isn't all over this

I have now read and assimilated the full 1000 pages. The verdict is in - He dun did it.

I believed him until quite recently. But -
1) He definately doped. His denials are now akin to believing in the tooth fairy
2) He DID fail tests. They were covered up.
3) Also, he was NOT the FIRST AMONGST EQUALS as his doping procedures and system was far superior to others.
4) People don't all react the same to PEDS - He went from decent to unstoppable. Others went from good to very good. It was not fair even though they were 'all' doing it.
5)He wasn't just a participant in the culture he ENFORCED the culture. He was the godfather of cheating. He forced young teammates to dope or would terminate their contracts.
6) He destroyed the reputation of clean riders that spoke out - eg Bassons and Simeoni. This is public knowledge.

I could go on.

[El Kabong]

Cycling is a dirty sport as shown by this whole mess. Lance doped but everyone else doped, so what if his doping was better the point is who were the "clean" cyclists?

My main beef with Armstrong is that he threatened American cycling hero Greg LeMond....that showed a lack of class, a huge sign of disrepect, and truly showed what a bully Lance is.

[VictorCharlie]

Meh, being the best cheater in a sport full of cheaters should count for something. This reminds of the Bonds hate. Everyone asks how many of the HRs was he juicing for but no one asks how many of the fastballs he saw were thrown by juiced pitchers.