Team Ward dare Joe Calzaghe to come out of retirement

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

Is that Wladimir Klitschko fights like Lennox Lewis and has the same attributes but isn't quite as Lennox Lewis

Wlad fights nothing like him u lemon. And no you're right he's not quite 'as lennox'....Wlad is a far better athlete!

he destroyed Chris Byrd twice with ease which is exactly what Lennox Lewis would of done end of.

U keep telling yourself that....So u are saying because wlad beat him, lewis would have! U are suggesting lewis would at least match what wlad has done?

Even though wlad toyed with rahman (used him as a sparring partner almost, just to get some rounds under his belt! and then finished him with mere clipping shots lol...) Beat up mercer and jackson with consumate ease!! Lewis had a torrid time with mercer, went 1-1 with rahman and lumbered to a horrible 8th round TKO over jackson! Try comparing what lewis and byrd did to holy, jackson and tua rather than what wlad has done to byrd....

If u don't rate my opinion then go ask manny steward his thoughts on klitschko and byrd!

Anyway il let it go, it is after all a ward calzaghe thread. Just thought id make my point.

[Master]

Is that Wladimir Klitschko fights like Lennox Lewis and has the same attributes but isn't quite as Lennox Lewis

Wlad fights nothing like him u lemon. And no you're right he's not quite 'as lennox'....Wlad is a far better athlete!

he destroyed Chris Byrd twice with ease which is exactly what Lennox Lewis would of done end of.

U keep telling yourself that....So u are saying because wlad beat him, lewis would have! U are suggesting lewis would at least match what wlad has done?

Even though wlad toyed with rahman (used him as a sparring partner almost, just to get some rounds under his belt! and then finished him with mere clipping shots lol...) Beat up mercer and jackson with consumate ease!! Lewis had a torrid time with mercer, went 1-1 with rahman and lumbered to a horrible 8th round TKO over jackson! Try comparing what lewis and byrd did to holy, jackson and tua rather than what wlad has done to byrd....

If u don't rate my opinion then go ask manny steward his thoughts on klitschko and byrd!

Anyway il let it go, it is after all a ward calzaghe thread. Just thought id make my point.

Just because Manny Steward did not want Lewis to fight him does not mean that Lewis would not have beaten him. Manny may have many reasons why he did not want Lewis to fight him but Lewis beat all styles and opponents at that time so he was more than capable of beating Byrd. He chose not to, the same goes with Ruiz.

[ICB]

Is that Wladimir Klitschko fights like Lennox Lewis and has the same attributes but isn't quite as Lennox Lewis

Wlad fights nothing like him u lemon. And no you're right he's not quite 'as lennox'....Wlad is a far better athlete!

he destroyed Chris Byrd twice with ease which is exactly what Lennox Lewis would of done end of.

U keep telling yourself that....So u are saying because wlad beat him, lewis would have! U are suggesting lewis would at least match what wlad has done?

Even though wlad toyed with rahman (used him as a sparring partner almost, just to get some rounds under his belt! and then finished him with mere clipping shots lol...) Beat up mercer and jackson with consumate ease!! Lewis had a torrid time with mercer, went 1-1 with rahman and lumbered to a horrible 8th round TKO over jackson! Try comparing what lewis and byrd did to holy, jackson and tua rather than what wlad has done to byrd....

If u don't rate my opinion then go ask manny steward his thoughts on klitschko and byrd!

Anyway il let it go, it is after all a ward calzaghe thread. Just thought id make my point.

Don't call me a lemon trying to make me look like, i haven't got a clue about this topic. I've seen pretty much all of Lennow Lewis's fights and pretty much most of Wladimir Klitschko important fights. So i think my opinion is just as valid as yours.

So you think Lennox Lewis fights nothing like Wladimir Klitschko ? don't they both rely on the jab and right hands ? aren't they both near enough the same weight and size ? Lennox Lewis was a good athlete for his size especially in the early 90's when he was 220+ pounds. And alot of fans often compare W.Klitschko to Lennox Lewis BTW.

So you really think Mercer and Rahman were as dangerous when they fought Wladimir Klitschko ? don't make me laugh.

You say facts but not whole facts, the fact is Lennox Lewis fought a prime Ray Mercer in 1996 just after Ray Mercer gave Evander Holyfield a tough night. Wladimir Klitschko fought Ray Mercer 6 years after and by that time, Ray Mercer was 41 years old and shot after being in so many tough battles.

Wladimir Klitschko also fought Hasim Rahman 7 years after Lennox Lewis fought him, and people at the time were calling it a joke fight. Because Hasim Rahman was no longer significant in the Heavyweight division, and was clearly not the same fighter who fought Lennox Lewis.

I don't know why you rate Chris Byrd so highly, he got a handful of gift decisions during his title reign. Many people thought he lost to Oquendo and Golota, he also scrapped by an average Jameel McCline, and lets not forget the most boring Heavyweight title fight in history vs Williamson.

Chris Byrd was basically the Jimmy Young of his era as someone else said here, although i think Jimmy Young was a better fighter. But there are some comparison's, regarding being skilled small Heavyweights with not much pop.

I did enjoy some of Chris Byrd's fights, and he did have a good performance vs Tua. Which i give him credit for, but i really fail to see how Chris Byrd could ever be competitive with Lennox Lewis.

Despite you disagreeing with me regarding Klitschko/Lewis comparison. I think Lennox Lewis would use the same tactics, keep him at bay with that telephone pole left jab. And occassionally use the right hand to hurt Chris Byrd.

Lennox Lewis was also a very big puncher, there's no way Chris Byrd slapping and pot shotting style. Would compare to Lennox Lewis cannonball punches, i think Lennox Lewis would have him out of there before the 12 round distance.

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

So you think Lennox Lewis fights nothing like Wladimir Klitschko ? don't they both rely on the jab and right hands ? aren't they both near enough the same weight and size ? Lennox Lewis was a good athlete for his size especially in the early 90's when he was 220+ pounds. And alot of fans often compare W.Klitschko to Lennox Lewis BTW.

Apart from size i don't think they are that similar! Wlad is a much more cautious upright type of fighter, wlad has the better left, lewis has the better right!!

Steward: “Wlad has the best footwork, co-ordination and balance of any fighter I have ever worked with. He’s the most accurate, single-punch knockout guy I have seen.

“A guy can be completely fine, not hurt, and Wladimir can put his lights out with one shot.

“He is the most powerful natural talent I have worked with. In terms of jab, Wladimir is the best and after him I would put Lennox.

“Lewis was a more versatile fighter but in terms of boxing arsenal, Wladimir is better.”

So you really think Mercer and Rahman were as dangerous when they fought Wladimir Klitschko

Of course they were still dangerous u goon....I think the fact that they were a bit older is negated by the manner in which klitschko handled them! If u think prime mercer and rahman beat prime wlad then please say so?

Mercer was 35 when he fought lennox and had started late as a pro! Rahman was never that good anway go ask maskaev...he beat sanders ya but got off the canvas twice to do so in a helluva fight! only way rahman beat's prime wlad is by a fluke KO! Again the lewis double standard flickers....try a 38 yr old holy or a 40 yr old SHOT tyson!!

You say facts but not whole facts, the fact is Lennox Lewis fought a prime Ray Mercer in 1996 just after Ray Mercer gave Evander Holyfield a tough night. Wladimir Klitschko fought Ray Mercer 6 years after and by that time, Ray Mercer was 41 years old and shot after being in so many tough battles.

Well include all the facts then! U neglect to mention 2 years prior to fighting lewis, mercer struggled to a draw with bummy journeyman marion wilson! Was that prime mercer?? The only person to beat mercer from lewis to 05 was wlad!! And it was a beatdown....

Mercer was coming off a 7 fight winning streak (7-0, 6 KOs) since the close MD against Lewis. He was in great shape for the Wlad fight, weighed 228 lbs, 10 lbs lighter than he was against Lewis.Wlad became the first man to knockdown and KO Mercer.

Mercer started late as a professional at 28. He had never been knocked out prior to this fight. He had never been knocked down prior to this fight except a slip duck against Holyfield. He wasn't hurt. He had only lost close decisions to Lewis, Holyfield, Holmes, and Ferguson. His last loss was a majority decision loss to Lewis prior to this fight. He KOed 6 men and decisioned Tim Witherspoon after Lewis and before Vladimir. Mercer had little wear and was still a tough fighter til K. Green Wlad KO6 Mercer.

I don't know why you rate Chris Byrd so highly, he got a handful of gift decisions during his title reign. Many people thought he lost to Oquendo and Golota, he also scrapped by an average Jameel McCline, and lets not forget the most boring Heavyweight title fight in history vs Williamson.

Dealt with all that, try reading my entire post history in the thread and stop just jumping in when something irks you! I thought he lost to oquendo (Who hasn't been in a close fight!) other than he Fought an even fight with golota (impressive!) And if mcline was average what does that make former lineal champ briggs and lewis's #1 grant? He was clearly better than them LOL. So what if the Williamson fight was Boring, yet again he frustrated the hell out of another world class SHW....It's not as if williamson was a bum is it? He beat oliver mcall, derrick jefferson (who was the only man to beat michael grant as an amateur!) kevin mcbride, corey sanders (who kayoed oleg maskaev and fought an all time classic with golota!) peae wollfgramme (who was an olympic silver medalist!) etc...

Chris Byrd was basically the Jimmy Young of his era as someone else said here, although i think Jimmy Young was a better fighter. But there are some comparison's, regarding being skilled small Heavyweights with not much pop.

Young was decisioned by Oswaldo Ocassio twice! He was stopped by 200lb shavers too. Jimmy (34-19) young lost AT LEAST 19 fights at least in his career!! GTFO WITH THAT SHIT...COMPARING A JOURNEYMAN LIKE YOUNG TO A 2x hw CHAMP LIKE BYRD (WHO ONLY LOST TO THE 2 BEST SHW'S OF THERE ERA!!) ONLY A DELUDED IDIOT WOULD COMPARE THE 2! IN TRUTH BYRD WOULD CLOWN YOUNG...YOUNG IS NOT IN BYRD LEAGUE! I know that hurt's because he beat the american hero george foreman, but truth is young was a journeyman! U just like to make him sound better than he is because if u admit to his REAL standing then u would have top adhere to the fact that foreman was beatable (which most ppl won't do!) So they make out young was a mythical fighter lol. Laughable.

I did enjoy some of Chris Byrd's fights, and he did have a good performance vs Tua. Which i give him credit for, but i really fail to see how Chris Byrd could ever be competitive with Lennox Lewis.

How do u know lewis how lewis would do against byrd, he never fought any southpaws or smaller/more illusive HW's! Lewis was fine with a HGV (HEAVY GOODS VEHICLE!) in front of him but...Anyway Manny steward knows what im saying, trust me!! Just because byrd doesn't have the ability to KO lewis doesn't mean he couldn't beat him, C level Zeljko Mavrovic went 12 rounds and made it competitive ffs!

Despite you disagreeing with me regarding Klitschko/Lewis comparison. I think Lennox Lewis would use the same tactics, keep him at bay with that telephone pole left jab. And occassionally use the right hand to hurt Chris Byrd.

Your opinion, not mine.

Lennox Lewis was also a very big puncher, there's no way Chris Byrd slapping and pot shotting style. Would compare to Lennox Lewis cannonball punches, i think Lennox Lewis would have him out of there before the 12 round distance.

I don't! Tua and wlad and vitali are also very big punchers! Byrd would frustrate the hell out of him culminatng in a messy fight in which we debate the scores to this day! Byrd had a great chin, Could lewis match what ike did? Possible but that was more to do with byrd getting over confident and getting a reality check from a fighter who was insanely poweful! IKe was also much more explosive than lewis!

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

Chris Byrd was basically the Jimmy Young of his era

Im still trying to get over that part! Young wasn't even a southpaw ffs! He finished with a record of:Won 34 (KO 11) Lost 19 and Drew 2! He never even won a belt for frigg sake! Jimmy Young was a cutesy boxer and a spoiler yes. He was brave, had heart and was hard to look good against but he was not a great heavyweight!

'But but but he fought ali bla bla bla.....'

Well it just shows the limitations of those fighters, not young's greatness! Truth hurt's, i know the old timer nostalgia syndrome blinds on to thus but...

Anyway i must stop now!

[ICB]

Nothing is irking me your the one getting frustrated, because you keep throwing around name calling you've called me a "lemon" and a "goon" now for having a different opinion to you. If you can't debate with someone without rage typing in caps or throwing around name calling don't debate with me end of.

There similar because they were both small/spoiler/skilled Heavyweight's with not much power, it doesn't matter if Jimmy Young wasn't a Southpaw. Also Jimmy Young happened to be in the strongest Heavyweight era in history which is big difference.

Also again you say facts but not whole facts, you bring up Jimmy Young's record. And fail to mention he should of got the nod over Ken Norton, Muhammad Ali, Earnie Shavers 2, all 3 of those fights were highly controversial. And had he maybe of had the same luck Chris Byrd had in getting controversial decisions over McCline, Golota, Oquendo, then maybe Jimmy Young could of been rated alot higher.

Also how can you not give him credit for beating George Foreman seriously ? i don't understand your opinion's at all. He had to take a pounding in the 7th round from a massive puncher like George Foreman, and comeback and dropped him in the 12th round to win a clear decision how can he not get credit for that ? or for losing highly controversial decisions to Ken Norton, Muhammad Ali, Earnie Shavers 2 ? or how about decisioning Ron Lyle twice ?

Yet Chris Byrd gets credit for getting for getting gift decisions ? in fights where most people thought he lost to Golota and especially Oquendo.

As for your other comments regarding Rahman, Mercer. Again your opinion which wouldn't be shared with many other people. I don't think many people would agree a 41 year old Ray Mercer was as good as the Ray Mercer Lennox Lewis fought. Forgetting the weight wasn't Riddick Bowe the same he weighed vs Evander Holyfield 1 for the rematch vs Andrew Golota in the rematch yet he looked shot and bad in that fight ? and what did Ray Mercer do after that fight ? he won a few fights against complete nobodies then lost to an average Shannon Briggs, again this is splitting hairs you think this i think this. But i honestly think if you made a poll i don't think your opinion would be favoured but whatever who cares.

Wladimir Klitschko fought Hasim Rahman "7 years after" Lennox Lewis did. Which is why people called it a joke fight. But of course he obviously was the same fighter despite people lambasting the fight saying Rahman is no longer significant in the Heavyweight division.


Lastly again splitting hairs, yes Lennox Lewis is not "exactly the same" as Wladimir Klitschko. But they do have attributes and style in common, and i think Lennox Lewis would KO Wladimir Klitschko despite all these comments about how supposedly he's better than Lennox Lewis, i also think he would have little trouble with Chris Byrd. And its an opinion which would be favoured.

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

[/QUOTE]Nothing is irking me your the one getting frustrated, because you keep throwing around name calling you've called me a "lemon" and a "goon" now for having a different opinion to you. If you can't debate with someone without rage typing in caps or throwing around name calling don't debate with me end of[/QUOTE]I did not even know i had put those two 'slights 'in my post...I guess it's years of posting on these forums, shit talking comes automatically LOL. They come easier than a comma nowadays i suppose....so i will apoologise for that.

There similar because they were both small/spoiler/skilled Heavyweight's with not much power, it doesn't matter if Jimmy Young wasn't a Southpaw. Also Jimmy Young happened to be in the strongest Heavyweight era in history which is big difference.

It doesn't matter if he fought in the golden AMERICAN era, So did henry cooper and joe bugner! Yes he put up valiant efforts against the 'big guns' of the era (But so did cooper and bugner!) It was hardly a diverse era was it? I mean no Cubans, no EE's etc....Thats why i laugh when i hear that the klitschkos would falter in that era (an era full of sub 200lb fighters!) an era in which Cooper and bugner could rattle the hell out of frazier and ali yet the klitschko's couldn't!! LOL.

A lot of those men well were under 200lbs also, byrd fought SHW's,advantage byrd!!

Also again you say facts but not whole facts, you bring up Jimmy Young's record. And fail to mention he should of got the nod over Ken Norton, Muhammad Ali, Earnie Shavers 2, all 3 of those fights were highly controversial. And had he maybe of had the same luck Chris Byrd had in getting controversial decisions over McCline, Golota, Oquendo, then maybe Jimmy Young could of been rated alot higher.

Are u saying young beat ali, norton,shavers and frazier then?? That would make him the greatest HW ever in some ppl's eyes!! Well u clearly are because you have said so! So young was the most succesful HW of THE GOLDEN ERA then by your reckoning!

I think u wil find he fought alot of those men as the era was shifting towards the 80's........Look what happened to young then!! Ali and foreman were 230lbs when he fought them too, dont forget foreman was in a bad place, he retired after that fight, remember??! Great fight though...

Also how can you not give him credit for beating George Foreman seriously ? i don't understand your opinion's at all. He had to take a pounding in the 7th round from a massive puncher like George Foreman, and comeback and dropped him in the 12th round to win a clear decision how can he not get credit for that ? or for losing highly controversial decisions to Ken Norton, Muhammad Ali, Earnie Shavers 2 ? or how about decisioning Ron Lyle twice ?

Ron lyle was 37 and never that good anyway! Beating shavers was not difficult, everytime he stepped up he got found out! In truth he was just a big punching 200lb journeyman who never won a belt! Jerry quarry was the most underrated fighter of that era IMO. Shavers stopped young and drew with him, byrd drew with golota who though much chinnier was in a different league to shavers! Oh wait we are gunna hear the 'shavers wudda killed golota' nonsense soon i guess...Shavers was not lennox lewis! And he quit vs tyson!

Lets look at some others who byrd beat:

Jose Ribalta Who had fought Mike Tyson, Tim Witherspoon, Bruce Seldon, Donovan Ruddock, Leon Spinks, Tony Tubbs, and Frank Bruno; Byrd stopped him in the fourth round!

Jimmy Thunder who was a former gold medallist and IBO champion (byrd stopped him in the 9th round) thunder holds wins over trevor berbick, tony tubbs and tim witherspoon and he also lost a very close SD to john ruiz.

Also throw in mames like hard hitting bert cooper who put both holyfield and michael moorer on the seat of there pants (and had them out on there feet in fact!). Phil jackson (who had only lost to lennox and donovan ruddock at the time) Byrd schooled him! etc etc.

Yet Chris Byrd gets credit for getting for getting gift decisions ? in fights where most people thought he lost to Golota and especially Oquendo.

I could argue young lost most of the fights u seem to have given him! It's u being overly generous to young, byrd vs mcline and golota were never big controversies, i acquiesced to oquendo (although byrd did start coming back at him later on!) u have made young out to be the greatest HW ever! So he lost to fres big deal, young loost to Randy Neumann, probably lost to bummy billy aird, Ossie Ocasio outboxed him twice, dokes, page, tucker, Philipp Brown etc beat him and he was probably gifted a decision over 22-9 jeff sims! Oquendo is better than sims...

As for your other comments regarding Rahman, Mercer. Again your opinion which wouldn't be shared with many other people. I don't think many people would agree a 41 year old Ray Mercer was as good as the Ray Mercer Lennox Lewis fought. Forgetting the weight wasn't Riddick Bowe the same he weighed vs Evander Holyfield 1 for the rematch vs Andrew Golota in the rematch yet he looked shot and bad in that fight ? and what did Ray Mercer do after that fight ? he won a few fights against complete nobodies then lost to an average Shannon Briggs, again this is splitting hairs you think this i think this. But i honestly think if you made a poll i don't think your opinion would be favoured but whatever who cares.

I don't care what POPULAR opinion is, i tend to use my own mind rather than following the popular concencus which has proven to be wrong time & time again in boxing....

Wladimir Klitschko fought Hasim Rahman "7 years after" Lennox Lewis did. Which is why people called it a joke fight. But of course he obviously was the same fighter despite people lambasting the fight saying Rahman is no longer significant in the Heavyweight division.

So say prime rahman beats prime wlad then! Why don't u explain the facts surounding this fight? Klitschkowas originally scheduled to meet Alexander Povetkin in a mandatory defence of the IBF title but Povetkin pulled out due to an injury. Rahman was ranked #4 by the IBF. Rahman was 36 the same age as wlad now...It's not wlads fault that he is superior to rahman or that rahman is unable to match the greatness of wladimir klitschko! Lews fought holy 7/8 years after bowe did! Whats your point? Wlad never cared much about rahman, who cares when they fought! Rahman is not top 10 on wlads resume IMO. Prime rahman would not be top 5 on wlads resume also! Look at mercer here:











LOL. He was 228lbs vs wlad! Older yes but look at fighters like hopkins, vitali and holyfield! Mercer started much later as a pro than some of them too...Even emanuel stewart has stated he has never been more nervous about a decision being read, Look at lewis LOL.

Lastly again splitting hairs, yes Lennox Lewis is not "exactly the same" as Wladimir Klitschko. But they do have attributes and style in common, and i think Lennox Lewis would KO Wladimir Klitschko

Depends which wlad shows up. And which corner steward chose to sit in...

despite all these comments about how supposedly he's better than Lennox Lewis, i also think he would have little trouble with Chris Byrd. And its an opinion which would be favoured

It's an opinion i don't share.