Wladimirs resume is excellent...

[ono]

He's a good fighter with a good resume but no matter how you break it down, he's fighting in a very very weak era. Not his fault but he's had to spend the majority of his career fighting very mediocre opposition.

Take away his size advantage and I dont see anything special in him. That's why I wouldn't have him in my pound for pound list. For example, if he was 147lbs I don't think he'd make much of a dent at welterweight.

Dont mean to interrupt all the wanking going on in here. Just don't see anything in him talent wise. He's merely a good fighter with a big physical advantage in an embarrassingly poor division.

[Peter Plys 44]

He's a good fighter with a good resume but no matter how you break it down, he's fighting in a very very weak era. Not his fault but he's had to spend the majority of his career fighting very mediocre opposition.

Take away his size advantage and I dont see anything special in him. That's why I wouldn't have him in my pound for pound list. For example, if he was 147lbs I don't think he'd make much of a dent at welterweight.

Dont mean to interrupt all the wanking going on in here. Just don't see anything in him talent wise. He's merely a good fighter with a big physical advantage in an embarrassingly poor division.

Why the heck should you take away Wlad's size and other physical advantages? Wlad was born to grow his height but his body is a result of 25 years of disipline and hard training. Would you also take away Tyson's speed, Ali's chin or Big George's power? - or are there other rules for them than for Wlad? Weak era and not talent for Wlad?.... Wlad became Olympic champ in 1996 and he is top dog 16 years later - how is that possible without special talent?

[ono]

I'm not, but if he was the same size as any other elite fighter, do you think he'd stand out?

[Peter Plys 44]

I'm not, but if he was the same size as any other elite fighter, do you think he'd stand out?

He has defeated boxers just as heavy or heavier than himself. Size is not the ultimate weapon in boxing. Look at Ustinov, Valuev and 100s of others boxers. Every boxer has to use his weapons good or bad.

I best answer your question with another question: would Bolt be a good marathon runner if he lost 20 cm of his height and 50 pounds of his weight?

[Gandalf]

Vitali is a better fighter than Wlad, so Wlad isn't even the best fighter of his own generation let alone all time.

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

I'm not, but if he was the same size as any other elite fighter, do you think he'd stand out?

Yes.

What is this nonsense about size! If it were to do with size then why cant fellow eastern europeans timo hoffman and dimitrenko match what the klitschkos do! American e'g's? Lance whitaker? Corey sanders? Derrick jefferson? It is there ability not there size!!

And in regards to size obviously those who use this accusation never felt the urge to check the records of other famous boxers like Ali or Foreman. Because it's actually them who notoriously outweighed their opponents...

name of the fighter and in how many fights the boxer has been out-weighed (in no particular order):

-George Foreman 11% (9 of 81 fights)
-Sonny Liston 18% (10 of 54)
-Joe Louis 22% (16 of 70)
-Vitali Klitschko 27% (12 of 43)
-Lennox Lewis 27% (12 of 44)
-Muhammad Ali 27% (17 of 61)
-Riddick Bowe 31% (14 of 45)
-Ron Lyle 37% (19 of 51)
-Earnie Shavers 37% (34 of 90)
-Joe Frazier 40% (15 of 37)
-Ken Norton 40% (20 of 50)
-Wladimir Klitschko 46% (27 of 50)
-Larry Holmes 46% (35 of 75)
-Mike Tyson 55% (32 of 50)
-Evander Holyfield 81% (45 of 55)

You know the critics have no arguments left when they are using this old cliche.

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

Vitali is a better fighter than Wlad, so Wlad isn't even the best fighter of his own generation let alone all time.

No he isn't.

It seems like a lot of people are making their decisions based on chins. That has nothing to do with who the better fighter is. If it does then ask yourselves a simple question: who's the better fighter, James Toney or Roy Jones? Both great fighters, but Toney definitely has the better chin. I'd say the majority of us would say Jones is the better fighter, though.

Sure Wlad got kayoed early in his career and then taken out by Sanders, but Brewster beat him because he just had nothing left in the tank. What has Klitschko done since his last loss? Improved. His defense is better, his pace more measured- you can see him in there thinking instead of simply trying to blast away opponents (which would probably work with 99% of them). He could have pulled the trigger on Calvin Brock 1-2 rounds earlier than he did, he could have taken out Austin in a single round, he could have put Chris Byrd away sooner considering Byrd played right into his fight.

It wasn't lack of ability that made these kayoes come later, Klitschko was playing chess master and once all the pieces were in the right order he moved in for a checkmate.

Who's the long reigning linear champ? Who won olympic gold? Who has the better resume? Wlad is better.

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

I'm not, but if he was the same size as any other elite fighter, do you think he'd stand out?

He has defeated boxers just as heavy or heavier than himself. Size is not the ultimate weapon in boxing. Look at Ustinov, Valuev and 100s of others boxers. Every boxer has to use his weapons good or bad.

I best answer your question with another question: would Bolt be a good marathon runner if he lost 20 cm of his height and 50 pounds of his weight?

If they would have been the size you mention they would be completely different fighters. So asking that question doesn't make any sense. It's like saying what if Shaquille O'Neal were 6 feet 3 inches.

The klitschkos have other attributes that set them apart! How good would Sonny Liston be if he didn't have an 84" reach advantage? How good would Foreman be without such emense power in both hands? How good would Ali be if he wasn't so agile or quick on his feet?

Size was never talked about when Hearns was fighting! David Tua had an unfair left hook advantage.
James Toney had an unfair Defense advantage. Roy Jones had an unfair hand speed advantage. Joe calzaghe had an unfair rapid fire advantage. LOL. It's just like Usain Bolt in the sprint races. Advantage? Unfair? Nobody sayin so!

[imp]

He's a good fighter with a good resume but no matter how you break it down, he's fighting in a very very weak era. Not his fault but he's had to spend the majority of his career fighting very mediocre opposition.

Take away his size advantage and I dont see anything special in him. That's why I wouldn't have him in my pound for pound list. For example, if he was 147lbs I don't think he'd make much of a dent at welterweight.

Dont mean to interrupt all the wanking going on in here. Just don't see anything in him talent wise. He's merely a good fighter with a big physical advantage in an embarrassingly poor division.

I only agree on the £4£ issue.
Size should not be taken away as thats what makes him a good fighter with a good history.
But putting vlad and every other fighter in the £4£ list he wouldnt make the top ten...or would someone disagree.

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

Can't believe what I'm reading here!! His list of opponents stinks!!

Thank you.

Would u both list these dire opponents? I'm thinking wlads top 10. List his top 10 and explain your reasons and il be happy to make a reply. His top 10 please! Il be waiting because...

Should be fun (I mean Has another family beat so many American boxers like the Klitschkos?

I think i remember Brewster's trainer saying "Lamont, i won't let you get killed there man, i know you tryin dawg but he is way above your league man, we got lucky last time bro, don't worry calvin will get him if chris fails again!" God bless the Klitschkos who KO the bigotry and stereotypes of boxing!

Between Wlad and his opponents they have beat: Mercer, Tua, Golota, Briggs, Holyfield, Mcall, Grant, Toney, Maskaev, Jackson, Liakovich, Ruiz, Moorer, Rahman, Witherspoon, Lewis, Thunder, Greg page, Foreman, Jorge luis gonzalez LOL. GAME OVER!

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

He's a good fighter with a good resume but no matter how you break it down, he's fighting in a very very weak era. Not his fault but he's had to spend the majority of his career fighting very mediocre opposition.

Take away his size advantage and I dont see anything special in him. That's why I wouldn't have him in my pound for pound list. For example, if he was 147lbs I don't think he'd make much of a dent at welterweight.

Dont mean to interrupt all the wanking going on in here. Just don't see anything in him talent wise. He's merely a good fighter with a big physical advantage in an embarrassingly poor division.

I wouldn't call gold medallist chagaev mediocre! We all know byrd was world class too! Peter? Very dangerous fighter back in the day! Haye? 2 weight world champ (For certain would beat i.e Michael moorer!) Brock? Undefeated and was the best amateur in america back in the day! Did better against mcline than shannon briggs/michael grant did! Ibragimov? Great amateur, certainly a better pro than i.e Oleg maskaev (see there fights with lance whitaker!) Schooled briggs!

Your credentials please? I'm assuming you are a step above these gold medallists and undefeated HW'S? I think your criticism and posters like u stems from the fear that wlad may have beaten your heroes! Nothing wrong with his opponents.

58-3.....LOL. Embarrassingly poor post to a truly top thread!

[ono]

I'm English and considering I dont particularly like David Haye, it's difficult to see him beating any of my 'heroes'

I'll just restate the fact that I think he's a good fighter who uses his size well. He's in shape which is a big plus for a heavyweight nowadays. He's a good fighter with a good jab and very good power.

Technically he's ok. He doesn't really have any inside game because he's that scared of letting anybody get close to him that he just grabs. Failing that, he'll just hold his left arm put to prevent his opponent from getting near him.

He's not particularly quick, nor does he really put punches together exceptionally well. His movement is fairly slow and predictable, his defence isn't brilliant. He's still a vulnerable fighter.

Luckily for him, the opposition has never been up to much so he can use his size to dominate. I'm not really even knocking him. I'm just stating that ability wise, he's nothing special. He merely is just good in most areas, and his size allows him to dominate against already inferior, lesser consitioned opposition. If you disagree , I'd love to hear where I'm wrong.

When you're talking about talent of course you can take size out of the equation, especially when you're relating it to a p4p list. If everyone weighed the same I literally just don't know we're I'd place him. I just know it would be anywhere near the top ten

[Master]

Vitali is a better fighter than Wlad, so Wlad isn't even the best fighter of his own generation let alone all time.

No he isn't.

It seems like a lot of people are making their decisions based on chins. That has nothing to do with who the better fighter is. If it does then ask yourselves a simple question: who's the better fighter, James Toney or Roy Jones? Both great fighters, but Toney definitely has the better chin. I'd say the majority of us would say Jones is the better fighter, though.

Sure Wlad got kayoed early in his career and then taken out by Sanders, but Brewster beat him because he just had nothing left in the tank. What has Klitschko done since his last loss? Improved. His defense is better, his pace more measured- you can see him in there thinking instead of simply trying to blast away opponents (which would probably work with 99% of them). He could have pulled the trigger on Calvin Brock 1-2 rounds earlier than he did, he could have taken out Austin in a single round, he could have put Chris Byrd away sooner considering Byrd played right into his fight.

It wasn't lack of ability that made these kayoes come later, Klitschko was playing chess master and once all the pieces were in the right order he moved in for a checkmate.

Who's the long reigning linear champ? Who won olympic gold? Who has the better resume? Wlad is better.

Vitali would be the better fighter if he did not have the injuries he did, Wlad has built a btter legacy because of the number of fighters he has beat. However peak Wlad v peak Vitali, I think big brother wins because he would push Wlad to the limits and Wlad would crumble.

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

PPL need to take there rose tinted glasses off and drop the nostalgia trip because it is clear to me that even in comparison to the supposed 'GOLDEN ERA' wlads diverse era of SHW's would be more than a match let alone matchec up with i.e the cokeheads of the 80's...

We all know david haye would take 185lb floyd pattersons head off!

We all know lamon brewster vs 180lb henry cooper would be an epic missmatch!

We all know slick eddie chambers would box circles around geoge chuvalo!

We all know 2x champ and slick southpaw chris byrd would box circles around joe frazier!

We all know that even ray austin would beat the 190lb gerry quarry!

We all know the durable as hell gold medallist that is prime chagaev would soak up anything norton could throw at him!

We all know SOUTHPAW tony thompson was leagues ahead of the 2 southpaws ali fought i.e bummy richrd dunn and QUITE GOOD (for his time) karl mildenberger!

We all know prime peter would bounce oscar bonavena around the ring like a football!

We all know that 250lb jameel mcqueef would send ernie terrell into the stratosphere!

We all know that undefeated calvin brock (who was a decorated amateur) would outbox jimmy young!

We all know that the 40 yr old mercer wlad fought would grind the 40 yr old heroine addict sonny liston down!

We all know former olympian and slick southpaw sultan ibragimov would school joe bugner, absolutely clown him!

We all know 270lb blob buster mathis would lose to average axel schultz!

We all know the 2000 version of monte barret would beat zora folley down!

We al know that 220lb davarryl williamson would trash 180lb bob foster!

We all know that even the likes of SHW's derick jeffferson or danell nicholson would eat i.e gunshot victim cleveland williams or mac foster for breakfast!

And we all know that in reality even the 216lb jean mark mormeck would destroy 196lb 26-17 leon spinks!

And in truth we all know that wlad would throw ali around the ring like a ragdoll and that 'FOREMAN THE MONSTER' would be fairly small by todays standards and in truth would have been beaten by prime wlad and a host of other fighters on his resume! Hell even foreman himself admits he's not in the league of the klitschkos: "Klitschko is as good as any past champs,better than me!"

[imp]

PPL need to take there rose tinted glasses off and drop the nostalgia trip because it is clear to me that even in comparison to the supposed 'GOLDEN ERA' wlads diverse era of SHW's would be more than a match let alone matchec up with i.e the cokeheads of the 80's...

We all know david haye would take 185lb floyd pattersons head off!

We all know lamon brewster vs 180lb henry cooper would be an epic missmatch!

We all know slick eddie chambers would box circles around geoge chuvalo!

We all know 2x champ and slick southpaw chris byrd would box circles around joe frazier!

We all know that even ray austin would beat the 190lb gerry quarry!

We all know the durable as hell gold medallist that is prime chagaev would soak up anything norton could throw at him!

We all know SOUTHPAW tony thompson was leagues ahead of the 2 southpaws ali fought i.e bummy richrd dunn and QUITE GOOD (for his time) karl mildenberger!

We all know prime peter would bounce oscar bonavena around the ring like a football!

We all know that 250lb jameel mcqueef would send ernie terrell into the stratosphere!

We all know that undefeated calvin brock (who was a decorated amateur) would outbox jimmy young!

We all know that the 40 yr old mercer wlad fought would grind the 40 yr old heroine addict sonny liston down!

We all know former olympian and slick southpaw sultan ibragimov would school joe bugner, absolutely clown him!

We all know 270lb blob buster mathis would lose to average axel schultz!

We all know the 2000 version of monte barret would beat zora folley down!

We al know that 220lb davarryl williamson would trash 180lb bob foster!

We all know that even the likes of SHW's derick jeffferson or danell nicholson would eat i.e gunshot victim cleveland williams or mac foster for breakfast!

And we all know that in reality even the 216lb jean mark mormeck would destroy 196lb 26-17 leon spinks!

And in truth we all know that wlad would throw ali around the ring like a ragdoll and that 'FOREMAN THE MONSTER' would be fairly small by todays standards and in truth would have been beaten by prime wlad and a host of other fighters on his resume! Hell even foreman himself admits he's not in the league of the klitschkos: "Klitschko is as good as any past champs,better than me!"

We all know lennox lewis beats both brothers..any era..anytime.
There is no arguement against that statement.