The Terrible Hypocrisy of England and America ın Geopolitics

[El Kabong]

No, Obama hasn't changed that at all.

Oh well that's nice to read at least you're not in denial over that.

[Beanz]

Miles you are blinded by your hatred. You are puffed up with the pride of feeling righteous indignation but we both know that you are simply cherry picking the same tired old arguments to align yourself with what you feel ironically is the cause of freedom and the downtrodden. Saddam was for over 20 years a totalitarian madman much more like Hitler and the Nazi racists in his widespread genocidal atrocities than the U.S or the U.K. You use the UN as leverage in your argument and yet you do not even agree with them. You pretend to be on the side of the powerless and oppressed and yet your ethos would leave the very same to be raped,tortured, imprisoned, and murdered by the dictators you accuse America and Britain of supporting. Should your ideas hold water then the Muslims would have been wiped out in Bosnia whilst the British and US watched and wrung their hands. Pacifism in the face of Evil is not a real world option, it was no more noble when the French let the Nazis take their Jews,gypsys,gays and disabled away than it was to ignore the people of Libya. It dishonors the noble martyrs of the French resistance and the civilians who suffered at the hands of Ghadaffi.

[Gandalf]

Miles you are blinded by your hatred. You are puffed up with the pride of feeling righteous indignation but we both know that you are simply cherry picking the same tired old arguments to align yourself with what you feel ironically is the cause of freedom and the downtrodden. Saddam was for over 20 years a totalitarian madman much more like Hitler and the Nazi racists in his widespread genocidal atrocities than the U.S or the U.K. You use the UN as leverage in your argument and yet you do not even agree with them. You pretend to be on the side of the powerless and oppressed and yet your ethos would leave the very same to be raped,tortured, imprisoned, and murdered by the dictators you accuse America and Britain of supporting. Should your ideas hold water then the Muslims would have been wiped out in Bosnia whilst the British and US watched and wrung their hands. Pacifism in the face of Evil is not a real world option, it was no more noble when the French let the Nazis take their Jews,gypsys,gays and disabled away than it was to ignore the people of Libya. It dishonors the noble martyrs of the French resistance and the civilians who suffered at the hands of Ghadaffi.

Greenbeanz, you are wrong. I have hatred for nobody and use only the influence of highly regarded scholars to make my claims. In the Nazi Germany/US similarities, there are marked similarities. Preventive war is preventive war and these are the crimes that Nazi Germany commited. The US dismisses the UN and Nazi Germany dismissed the League of Nations. These are nations beyond law and reason.

You are insane if you think Saddam was more like Hitler than someone like Bush. Saddam did not invade two independant countries and wipe out hundreds of thousands and injure millions. Saddam killed thousands and likewise tortured, but Bush and Hitler were on a far greater scale. It is nuts to say Hitler was more like Saddam than Bush.

Who is to say that I don't agree with the UN? On the whole I certainly do. Infallible no, but the closest we have to coherance. Even then still it has been grotesquely abused by the US and its strongarm mafia tactics. Sanctions on Iraq for how long despite it harming hundreds of thousands, 'but it was worth it' I read one high level spokesperson saying. Now sanctions on Iran. It exists for no other purpose than to demoralise and weaken before the inevitable assault. America will only attack if it thinks the opponent has no teeth. North Korea is quite safe in that regard.

I don't defend oppresion, but I don't think randomly picking a country and having our wicked way with it is a viable alternative either. Democracy, but only the party we want in place is not a credible means to an end either. Hamas was elected in Palestine and thus was forced to pay the penalty for not choosing the Amercan option. Sorry, but being labelled a terrorist by the worlds leading proponent of state terror really doesn't have any meaning.

In the case of Libya, well sure, get involved but don't decide it on your own in The White House. And then don't ignore Syria and say we cannot get involved. Don't ignore Bahrain. Don't continue to be best mates with the brutal Saudi regime. It is hypocrisy and unfortunately because of the clever forms of indoctrination we have in Britain and America, we are not supposed to think outside of the history winners mindset. Our nations are appalling and it doesn't take hatred to say as much. It is an entirely reasoned and rational point of view. We are power abusers and bullies and deserve a bloody good kick in the balls.

[VictorCharlie]

Saddam attacked both Iran and Kuwait.

[Gandalf]

Saddam attacked both Iran and Kuwait.

Saddam attacked Iran with the backing of whom exactly? Several billion dollars in aid and the means to produce WMD which was later used as the justification to invade Iraq despite a decade of crippling sanctions and military dismantling.

Just a little bit of hypocrisy, methinks. Do you guys really believe any of this stuff you come up with?

[VictorCharlie]

You said "Saddam did not invade two independant countries"

I responded pointing out your were wrong. You know those facts you like to debate with? That wasn't one of them. Now I have to get back to reading Mein Kampf.

[Gandalf]

I have selective amnesia. That's pretty cool, Saddam was very much like Bush and even had the backing of Daddy one time. Rather nifty.

[brocktonblockbust]

America dropped depleted uranıum all over Iraq and babıes are beıng born wıth deformıtıes because of thıs. Whats the dıff between that and Saddams gassıng the Kurds? Nothıng. POt callıng kettle black. The US ıs ın no posıtıon at all ın any way ımagıneable to preach tot he rest of the world about rıghts and human protectıon. Recently the Pentagon admıtted to gassıng people ın Bıloxı Mıssıssıppı and St Louıs Mıssourı ın 1961 to test out a new fangled vaccıne agaınst certaın deadly pathogens.

Greenbeanz and lyle--do youthınk thıs doesnt count for anythıng ın the arguments Gnadlaf and I are makıng then? How about delıberately ınjectıng 312 Guatemalans ın the 40s and 50s wıth syphılıs and typhoıd just to test out a brand new vaccıne? Oh no that ısnt evıl ıs ıt? Its Red Whıte and Blue!