Robert Guerrero vs. Andre Berto - Saturday night fight/chat thread

[CFH]

I hate Al Haymon and his goofy looking kids.

[Kirkland Laing]

I hate Al Haymon and his goofy looking kids.

That's Sam Watson and Watson's goofy looking kids. Haymon's right hand man. If Berto had won tonight he'd almost certainly have got the next Mayweather gig.

[CFH]

I hate Al Haymon and his goofy looking kids.

That's Sam Watson and Watson's goofy looking kids. Haymon's right hand man. If Berto had won tonight he'd almost certainly have got the next Mayweather gig.

Good to know.

[Kirkland Laing]

Guerrero is definitely a very skilled fighter (although we didn't see too much of that tonight.) And he's got an amazing chin. But what I don't get is how you can come up from lightweight to welterweight and be able to bully guys like Berto around without some help. You've basically got to assume that everybody at the top level in boxing is taking something until it's proved otherwise. Other than Donaire, who is the only top fighter to agree to year-round random testing I wouldn't put any money on any of these guys being clean.

[bzkfn]

Guerrero is definitely a very skilled fighter (although we didn't see too much of that tonight.) And he's got an amazing chin. But what I don't get is how you can come up from lightweight to welterweight and be able to bully guys like Berto around without some help. You've basically got to assume that everybody at the top level in boxing is taking something until it's proved otherwise. Other than Donaire, who is the only top fighter to agree to year-round random testing I wouldn't put any money on any of these guys being clean.

Really couldn't agree with this more. The powers that be seem happy to turn a blind eye though. Hand out the occasional pointless punishment and carry on business as usual.

[armin]

Guerrero is definitely a very skilled fighter (although we didn't see too much of that tonight.) And he's got an amazing chin. But what I don't get is how you can come up from lightweight to welterweight and be able to bully guys like Berto around without some help. You've basically got to assume that everybody at the top level in boxing is taking something until it's proved otherwise. Other than Donaire, who is the only top fighter to agree to year-round random testing I wouldn't put any money on any of these guys being clean.

you're probably sadly right but got to remember berto got chicken legs so i dont imagine its thats hard to push him around if you're a full fledged welter which is what robert is now, i mean ortiz did it to and he had just moved up from 140...

[Kirkland Laing]

Guerrero is definitely a very skilled fighter (although we didn't see too much of that tonight.) And he's got an amazing chin. But what I don't get is how you can come up from lightweight to welterweight and be able to bully guys like Berto around without some help. You've basically got to assume that everybody at the top level in boxing is taking something until it's proved otherwise. Other than Donaire, who is the only top fighter to agree to year-round random testing I wouldn't put any money on any of these guys being clean.

you're probably sadly right but got to remember berto got chicken legs so i dont imagine its thats hard to push him around if you're a full fledged welter which is what robert is now, i mean ortiz did it to and he had just moved up from 140...

Ortiz was 23 and a growing lad. Guerrero is 29 and all of a sudden he can jump two weight classes and dominate big welters.

[armin]

Guerrero is definitely a very skilled fighter (although we didn't see too much of that tonight.) And he's got an amazing chin. But what I don't get is how you can come up from lightweight to welterweight and be able to bully guys like Berto around without some help. You've basically got to assume that everybody at the top level in boxing is taking something until it's proved otherwise. Other than Donaire, who is the only top fighter to agree to year-round random testing I wouldn't put any money on any of these guys being clean.

you're probably sadly right but got to remember berto got chicken legs so i dont imagine its thats hard to push him around if you're a full fledged welter which is what robert is now, i mean ortiz did it to and he had just moved up from 140...

Ortiz was 23 and a growing lad. Guerrero is 29 and all of a sudden he can jump two weight classes and dominate big welters.

Hey like I said you're probably sadly right and half or more of these guys are juicin, and sadly the last year or so has made it hard to believe otherwise with all the names that been caught. I was just stating tho that I don't think bertos lower body strength is all that great and so I could see a non juicin fighter moving up push him around. Wish they would install real drug testin with real consequences not ones were you can get out of punishment by claiming ya ate a tainted burito or some other stupid shit

[Mars_ax]

Guerrero is definitely a very skilled fighter (although we didn't see too much of that tonight.) And he's got an amazing chin. But what I don't get is how you can come up from lightweight to welterweight and be able to bully guys like Berto around without some help. You've basically got to assume that everybody at the top level in boxing is taking something until it's proved otherwise. Other than Donaire, who is the only top fighter to agree to year-round random testing I wouldn't put any money on any of these guys being clean.

you're probably sadly right but got to remember berto got chicken legs so i dont imagine its thats hard to push him around if you're a full fledged welter which is what robert is now, i mean ortiz did it to and he had just moved up from 140...

Ortiz was 23 and a growing lad. Guerrero is 29 and all of a sudden he can jump two weight classes and dominate big welters.

I could be wrong, but I doubt that Guerrero is using PEDs, yeah jumping up 2 weight classes and winning a title seems a bit odd, but not unheard of in boxing. No need to jump to conclusions, Robert looked like he had the frame to move up, when he was a lightweight.

[Mars_ax]

This wasn't an easy fight to watch at times, but I liked the result. Berto is a tough/dangerous pug who will still be in the WW title picture after tonight, but this loss to Guerrero, the one to Ortiz and the PEDs issue have to lower his market value. HBO however, will continue to suck on Berto's hind tit.

[DavilaJones]

That ghost was anything but ethereal. Damn good fight!

[Spicoli]

Guerrero is definitely a very skilled fighter (although we didn't see too much of that tonight.) And he's got an amazing chin. But what I don't get is how you can come up from lightweight to welterweight and be able to bully guys like Berto around without some help. You've basically got to assume that everybody at the top level in boxing is taking something until it's proved otherwise. Other than Donaire, who is the only top fighter to agree to year-round random testing I wouldn't put any money on any of these guys being clean.

Or maybe you have to assume Berto is now made to fight juice free, off first loss, a torn bicep and meeting a guy more capable of exploiting his obvious mistakes and far more skilled than a Ortiz I think you are greatly selling Guerrero short with conspiracy theory and in a round about way, ala network..still selling a Berto.

[Kirkland Laing]

Berto refued VADA testing for this fight. VADA were the people who had caught him juicing. He accepted USADA testing. These are the people who have a seriously questionable relationship with Golden Boy -- the endless Morales tests until he managed to produce a negative result, dodgy dealings with Mayweather test results not being reported to authorities, the Peter Quillin-Winky Wright testing programme stopped without explanation after one random test, etc etc -- so I'm sure Berto could get away with taking PEDs for this fight.

I don't think Berto is a very skilled fighter, if he can't knock you out he's in trouble. He seemed to think he was Adrian Broner at the start of this fight. He's been carefully matched throughout his career and no question Guerrero is a more skilled fighter than Berto is. I can see Guerrero jabbing and moving and beating Berto on points, but to jump a stone in weight so late in his career and then to dominate and manhandle Berto like that I've got to say looks suspicious to me.

For people wondering where I got the mayweather/Winky/Morales stuff from I'd like to recommend these two articles on PEDs written by one of the top two or three boxing jounalists out the, Ali's biographer :

Max Boxing - Featured Articles - The PED Mess: Part One


Max Boxing - News - The PED Mess: Part Two

[armin]

Berto refued VADA testing for this fight. VADA were the people who had caught him juicing. He accepted USADA testing. These are the people who have a seriously questionable relationship with Golden Boy -- the endless Morales tests until he managed to produce a negative result, dodgy dealings with Mayweather test results not being reported to authorities, the Peter Quillin-Winky Wright testing programme stopped without explanation after one random test, etc etc -- so I'm sure Berto could get away with taking PEDs for this fight.

I don't think Berto is a very skilled fighter, if he can't knock you out he's in trouble. He seemed to think he was Adrian Broner at the start of this fight. He's been carefully matched throughout his career and no question Guerrero is a more skilled fighter than Berto is. I can see Guerrero jabbing and moving and beating Berto on points, but to jump a stone in weight so late in his career and then to dominate and manhandle Berto like that I've got to say looks suspicious to me.

For people wondering where I got the mayweather/Winky/Morales stuff from I'd like to recommend these two articles on PEDs written by one of the top two or three boxing jounalists out the, Ali's biographer :

Max Boxing - Featured Articles - The PED Mess: Part One


Max Boxing - News - The PED Mess: Part Two

Again tho berto's lower body strength is nothing to be marvelled at, and if I remember right robert wasn't manhandling and pushin aydin around in that fight.

[Kirkland Laing]

Berto refued VADA testing for this fight. VADA were the people who had caught him juicing. He accepted USADA testing. These are the people who have a seriously questionable relationship with Golden Boy -- the endless Morales tests until he managed to produce a negative result, dodgy dealings with Mayweather test results not being reported to authorities, the Peter Quillin-Winky Wright testing programme stopped without explanation after one random test, etc etc -- so I'm sure Berto could get away with taking PEDs for this fight.

I don't think Berto is a very skilled fighter, if he can't knock you out he's in trouble. He seemed to think he was Adrian Broner at the start of this fight. He's been carefully matched throughout his career and no question Guerrero is a more skilled fighter than Berto is. I can see Guerrero jabbing and moving and beating Berto on points, but to jump a stone in weight so late in his career and then to dominate and manhandle Berto like that I've got to say looks suspicious to me.

For people wondering where I got the mayweather/Winky/Morales stuff from I'd like to recommend these two articles on PEDs written by one of the top two or three boxing jounalists out the, Ali's biographer :

Max Boxing - Featured Articles - The PED Mess: Part One


Max Boxing - News - The PED Mess: Part Two

Again tho berto's lower body strength is nothing to be marvelled at, and if I remember right robert wasn't manhandling and pushin aydin around in that fight.

Guerrero just looked overall to be much stonger. He was mauling Berto with his arms, not his legs.